Wood pellet stove blog - THE GRAND 2011 PELLET STOVE EXPERIMENT

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Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
9,117
Salem NH
Hello

Interesting read

http://www.watchman2012.com/articles/spout32.shtml

Well, if you read my spout 11 -Man against Nature, you know that I HATE winter.
I get very MANIC about it, call it the "Deep Dark Tunnel",
as that has always been the image in my mind when recollecting it. (or dreading it in anticipation)
Simply something to endure and get thru.

This winter 2010-2011, I did yet another experiment, I bought a small pellet Stove.
I can say that it is a LOVE~HATE relationship with that stove.
More on THAT later...

The initial cost of the stove, blew my winter heating budget, so last August, the focus was on
getting it installed, getting a cheap supply of pellets, and making winter modifications to my home.

My Home is 5600 Square Feet of floor space counting the basement(s) and garage.
2.5 stories tall. 4 car garage under (2 stored to the side-2 able to get in/out)
2nd floor master bedroom 30x30 with an office and master bath 10 x 20 each
Essentially, an addition that maxes the local building code, and wraps around the
"old" original Log Cabin Home.

The Log Cabin, is the "winter-mode" house, as currently it is finished, insulated, and heated.
It is 37x26 basement and 1st floor 1,924 Square Feet of heated space.
It has a HUGE/MASSIVE central Chimney & fireplace.
The fireplace is plugged as they are negative pressure makers, sucking heated air from the inside
which causes the outside wall perimeter to leak cold air in.
There is a 3" pipe in the floor, with an outlet in front of the hearth, that extends to the outside
to "make-up" air, for any heating appliance that I use at the hearth,
this is essential to avoid that negative pressure.

I could go deep into the reasons and negative pressure scenario, but suffice it to say, that since
the addition was built, it changed the pressure dynamics of the old central chimney and it's draft.
Even adding to the height of the chimney by 3 more tiles (2.5 feet each) 7.5 feet taller,
it is still not enough of a draft to use my old woodstove,
that previously was installed in front of the covered fireplace and plugged into a thimble above the mantel.
The draft is simply not enough and you get back drafting of combustion products into the house.
HOWEVER, the fireplace itself HAS adequate draft, and so cries out for an INSERT.

The pellet stove was installed in front, and it's exhaust put thru the fireplace plug and into a pipe/liner
that goes thru to the chimney.
That has perfect draft. I was also able to get away with a cheaper pipe than what is called for,
because it all goes into the fireplace and chimney with little interior piping,
and that caulked heavily with high temp caulk.

Pellet stove pipe is triple insulated and typically adds $300-$400 on your install cost otherwise...
DO NOT skimp on it, as fine ash and combustion products end up in the house otherwise.
Further, the fine ash can limit the interior diameter as it builds up, typical installs use a TEE
that has a cleanout at the bottom.
Cleaning that pipe is part of the weekly maintenance.

Now, I will admit that my "first" go at install, I tried to use the old woodstove thimble.
It worked for one night, the next night was rainy and a temperature inversion,
the draft was inadequate
nearly smoked me out of the house !

The second install went thru the fireplace plug and connected to a pipe that went far above the old thimble
& inside the chimney.
That has worked perfect all winter.
Thank-God, as I previously stated, I blew the winter heat budget on the stove.

The next things I did to the house I will describe in detail here as they were just as important.

All Doors have good tight weather-stripping and floor 'sweeps" essential for a good closing seal.
They shut tight, and lock.
ALL windows have interior storm windows made of plexi-glas,
with perimeter trim that allows them to be totally air sealed.
Some of them have exterior storm triple trac windows as well, I have been adding them over the years...

This year, I tried a cheap experiment.
I purchased enough of those mylar "Emergency Blankets" to cover all windows and doors.
The literature on the blankets say they reflect 80% of your body heat.
They are in fact, amazing in how something so thin, can keep you warm, but they DO.
So, since most of my oil heating registers are on the outside wall and under a window
I thumb tacked a space blanket over each window. Similar to folks who put plastic over the window.
Although these were NOT intended to air seal, (the plexi-glas-interior storm window does that)
rather, they added a heat reflecting surface, and often under the heavy winter curtains.
They are semi-see thru, but block most of the sun's light.

I was amazed, as in my office with no heat, the temp rise was a clear 2 degrees F.
so they DO in fact reflect heat back into the room.
At $1.25 each, a good, cheap, working, so I'd have to say, successful experiment !

Later on, during the after Christmas deep freeze (we hit 18 degrees below zero sustained for 2 weeks)
I also used a space blanket between 2 comforters on my bed.
The bed heated up real fast, although the crinkly sound was a bit to get used to. LOL
However, it worked great and I was toasty warm !

The final important winter modification was, closing off the front of the house.
Allow me to explain.
Years ago, I had expanded the front of the house to enclose the front porch.
Made that a super insulated space with 6 in walls filled with cellulose.
It faces east, and has a great big diamond window in the upper gable,
A full length glass panel window on the south wall. (covered with a space blanket)
The solid core door is under the diamond.
This allowed, me to put in a 10x10 kitchen on the north side with a U shaped counter,
with nice wrap around cabinets.
(The kitchen works awesome BTW, many work triangles and tons of storage)

So above the kitchen Is a flat insulated ceiling, that terminates parallel with the countertop,
creating a storage loft above.
(a Brief side note, the insulation is cellulose. Ordinarily, the insulation does nothing here, as the space is open to the
entryway, I did it in case of fire. A local fire dept had insulated the attic of the fire barn storage area.
It caught fire, and the ceiling collapsed, the cellulose insulation snuffed the fire, made them and I believers.)

See more in Link Above
 
I find his facts a little off. There is an extra cost for electric. For me based on last year's bills for the same kw usage, it cost about $15 extra per month. That translates for me to about $100 per season. When factor the cost of propane at $3.29 per gallon, and 1 ton of pellets at $165 per ton, the savings are staggering. I used to use 1600 gallons of propane per year. That's over $5200. That amount is for heat at 65 degrees, hot water, dryer, and cooking. This past year, i only needed 400 gallons for the year. That's $1360. That means $4000 is used for heat. It cost me about $700 for 4 ton of pellets, plus $100 for electric and I see $3200 in savings a year. He was right about the maintenance. Every 4 days, the cleaning. The lugging of 40 lb. bags of pellets. For me that is worth $3200. It only cost me less than $1500 for the stove and installation. Im still up $1500 in the first year. Remember, for $4k the house was 65 degrees. Now, i'm comfortable at 70 degrees. I prefer, the little bit of maintenance.
 
Too bad the poor bastard who wrote the article did not know about this forum. An hour on here and he'd be alot better edjumacated!
 
If you can't afford to heat it or cool it don't buy it!
 
It was much easier to heat my house at $1.05 a gallon.
 
This guy clearly has the wrong stove and the wrong pellets on the wrong settings with perhaps a wrong install... jeesh.
 
Hi Folks !

I am the original author of the article. I found you here from a refer to my site.
I do recommend you click the link that points to the WHOLE article as it does go over
the numbers electricity used, pellet costs, vs oil costs.
http://www.watchman2012.com/articles/spout32.shtml

I would like to add the caveat that the concept of pellets IS valid and a good use of resources
HOWEVER
the auger design is very poor in even the best of stoves IMHO
The european design is generally a larger stove fed from a large hopper with a large SPRING auger
they will go typically a heating season without cleaning the inevitable sawdust as the spring will bounce over it.

Most U.S. stoves have a solid auger in a tight tolerance tube, and jambs are almost inevitable.
I believe it is actually a Chinese adaptation of the European design copied by US companies.
it is compact, but in all the literature they blame you or the pellet for jambs when the darn thing is made of sawdust.

FYI I am a licensed Energy Auditor was on the Maine state masters list since 1987 until they did away with the license and list.
I am also a licensed oil burner apprentice with 20 years in the field (my friend held the masters license, I never needed to get mine)
35 years in the residential construction trade, and 10 years U.S. Department of Energy -conservation services.
this was a proper install and a serious experiment.

Now as far as the numbers go, it was the equivalent of the cost of oil THAT year.
along with a boatload of extra work, and no where near the warmth a woodstove puts out.
Granted you get better BTU from a better pellet, or larger stove ,but it was within the budget I had for this experiment
I resorted to basically a ground bark & hardwood sawdust pellet.

This year with oil prices higher yes, there would be a greater proportional savings, the same with other heating fuels.

In my book however, the added maintenance, the occasional jam and P.I.A. rectify, lugging the pellets and lessened BTU output
was NOT worth it. It will be a sad state of affairs if fuel prices go even higher and we are left with this as the only semi viable alternative.
right now I could only go as far as stating that they are a fair supplement heat source to reduce SOME heating cost
Questionable however because of the initial investment and install costs for those not handy.

Ideally, what American stove makers should do is redesign the entire stove, and LOSE the auger.
That is the fatal flaw. Period.
At the end of my article I show a NOT certified for home use GRAVITY fed pellet stove, that IS a workable design.
it needs to be modified to pass certification safety standards to be used in a structure/home.

So go re-design it and make a million !
(my team here is actually DOING that NOW, we have hired an Industrial Design Engineer and building the prototype
to get tested and certified. So, check my site for updates, at some point we will license the design, and/or be selling the stoves.)

Again, pellets make a LOT of sense, elderly don't have to mess with, store, lug wood. and NO BUGS,
NO water vapor (which is WHY you should not store wood in your basement -the water vapor will cause major problems in the house over time)
add to this the advent of viable pellet mills, you can make your own pellets from yard waste and come up with your own mixtures to make a better & higher BTU
pellet !
With a good stove design, AND making your own pellet, we can thumb our nose at the petro-fuel bandits.

Finally, I would ask that you read the entire article, the numbers do not lie, they do change as the cost of petro-fuel goes up
however the risk of household freeze ups, and the extra maintainence makes it an expensive alternative.
It is NOT for everybody.

-Watchman

PS: the fireplace now has an Old Mill wood insert CRANKS the heat so much so that often windows have to be opened.
 
Welcome to the forum watchman2012com,

Pull up a chair next to the fire and join in the chats.

Even the spring augers have issues feeding and a lot of solid close quarters augers run for years without jamming.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
Welcome to the forum watchman2012com,

Pull up a chair next to the fire and join in the chats.

Even the spring augers have issues feeding and a lot of solid close quarters augers run for years without jamming.

Hello

Yes, Smokey is correct. I worked on a Mt Vernon AE Insert. It has a spring style auger and has it's share of auger jams. The digital smart thermostat displays the message auger jam very clearly!!

Case in point
Jammed auger on Mt Vernon
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/89277/
 
Well, I read the whole thing and I think he`s close with most of the points he makes. Sure I could take issue with a few things he wrote but I also understand that none of us have the identical space/home, pellet stove, installation , and pellets that he has so there will be differences.
A big part of heating with a pellet stove is attitude. You gotta invest up front, you gotta be handy, you gotta do the maintenence, and most of all you really gotta like doing it because if you don`t it`s easy to come up with a list of negatives like he did.
I`m saving SOME money , (not tons of money as some claim) supplementing with the pellet stove but my home was much more comfortable (evenly heated) when I was using only the oil furnace. If oil ever got back down to $2-$2.50 a gal I probably wouldn`t use the stove. But with the price of oil these days I like saving whatever i can.
One thing is certain, I`m not going back to screwing with firewood and a woodstove!
 
You forgot that your oil furnace and forced air blower (or circulation pump) uses electricity too.....at least the same, if not more than your pellet stove. Also, the avearge pellet stove uses about 100W, so it is more like 73KW-hours per month....about $11 dollars a month.

My Italian Ecoteck stove, which has the "horrible" solid metal auger screw, has run for about 500 hours so far this season (it has built-in hour-meter) and the auger has never jammed yet, nor do I have major cleaning issues every day. So I think most pellet stove owners have a far less intensive maintenence rigormoral as the original poster has. I would give up my pellet stove if it involved that much attention !! From a financial standpoint, pellet fuel costs about half per BTU than oil, so if you use the same number of total BTUs to heat your home during the winter, your fuel cost will be about half.
 
Don't even want to imagine not having my pellet stove. Yes, it gives heat, but more tan that! It adds a lot to our life style. Now if I could only figure out how to have one in my living room.
 
The problem is that people use their stoves inefficiently. I mean how efficient is it to crank the stove to 75-80 to try and get some residual heat reaching outer bedrooms...think about it, you're burning all those pellets to heat a room nobody is using (presumably), just to heat outer rooms. Well of course you're not going to realize the savings you thought you would. At least an oil furnace will have insulated pipes to mitigate heat loss somewhat enroute to where it's truly needed.
 
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