Woodstove in Alcove - the void between the hearth and foundation wall

[Rubespur]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster here. I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts over the past few months. It has been really helpful in getting to learn more about fireplaces and stoves. Apologies if this is posted in the correct location or there already is a thread about this topic.

I wanted to get feedback on my situation, as I am looking at replacing my wood burning fireplace with a wood stove.

The house is a tri-level with the fireplace in the family room, against the north-facing wall, that is approximately 400 sq. feet and is partially underground with the bottom of the windows being on ground level. The current fireplace is a Superior (likely from around 1984 when the house was built – model X 227433) with a blower fan. The chase is exterior and the top of the fireplace/bottom of mantle is roughly at ground level.There are not significant issues starting a fire in the current fireplace - just need to crack one of the two windows an inch and fires usually start pretty quickly.

Opposite the fireplace is the door leading down to the basement which is roughly 9-10 feet underground, with a radon extraction system and furnace. Next to the basement door are the steps leading to the main level which opens up to approximately 1,000 sq. feet.

My desire to replace the fireplace is that this beast is extremely drafty. During the typical Wisconsin winter, the fireplace feels like an open window and I suspect that the foundation wall behind it has no insulation. I built an insulation box and slide that against the face of the fireplace in the winter, in addition to stuffing a bag full of insulation up the flue just above the damper (with a big ol’ note on the fireplace glass to remind me to remove that when lighting a fire!). Not great solutions, but this worked wonders when temperatures were down to -40F.

My thought is to hire a fireplace installer to rip out the fireplace and hearth, insulate the inside of the foundation wall, create (rebuild) a brick alcove/hearth and then place a wood stove into the alcove, as opposed to just replacing the fireplace with another one, after tearing out and insulating. I am thinking that if I do a wood stove in the alcove, with the entire back wall bricked up with insulation on the other side, it will be better insulated against the bitter winters we get here and keep more heat inside the room, opposed to installing a new fireplace that juts out into the exterior foundation wall. Does this make sense?

What happens in the void behind the hearth that meets the foundation wall? Would there always be a battle in the void behind the alcove/hearth space and inside of the foundation wall with heat from the stove coming into contact with the cold that seeps through the foundation wall? Would I inadvertently be creating a breeding ground for mold with the air in that space condensing and collecting? There currently does not seem to be any moisture issues with the room where the fireplace is.

Some other information: I am currently thinking about the Iron Striker 160 – something small (and hopefully friendly) for the novice to operate. I would ask the company to do a new liner and to replace the well rusted out chase cover.

I’ve been doing a lot of research and am keen on your insights, particularly as to what happens in that void between the back of the hearth and the foundation wall. I want to ensure I avoid creating a problem area there.

Attached is a photo of the current fireplace.

Thanks for your thoughts and guidance!

~R

 

[begreen]

Your plan is sound. There could be a vapor barrier installed before the interior brick veneer wall.

The C160 Striker is a good little stove. It's been around for a long time. Will the stove be heating just the family room or is there a large open stairwell in this room that will allow heat to convect up to the next floor. If the room has the large stairway then I suspect you will be wanting more heat and longer burn time, especially if the intent is to heat 24/7. It's shallow firebox makes it an E/W loader. If just for nights and weekend then the C160 should be ok.

Overall, your plan is sound. Whatever stove is chosen pay attention to alcove clearance requirements. These requirements can be different than those for a freestanding installation. And whatever you install, be sure to have a good supply of fully seasoned wood ready for heating. Modern stoves need dry fuel to run well.

 

[Rubespur]

Thanks for the reply, begreen!

I appreciate the follow up. Yes, of course, the vapor barrier!

We definitely won't be depending on the wood stove as our primary source of heat. Our first goal is to reduce the draft of the current fireplace, and our second goal is to keep the fuel source as wood, hence why I am thinking of a wood stove. One company we met with suggested we do a BIS line of fireplace. Any thoughts on that?

The stairway leading upstairs from the lower family room is 35 inches wide. Should we consider a bigger wood stove? The family room is where our furkids live, so we don't want that room to get too, too hot, but if a bigger model burns longer and won't get too hot, I will gladly take any suggestions you have!

Something that is important to me is to have a fireplace/wood stove that I can leave alone and not have to stay up until 1am to ensure everything has extinguished for the night. I want something I feel confident in leaving unattended and isn't a big hassle to operate. I spend a lot of time in the family room, so being able to get a fire going quickly and feeling confident it is fine overnight while I sleep is important.

Happy to take any additional suggestions you have!

Cheers,

~R

Will the stove be heating just the family room or is there a large open stairwell in this room that will allow heat to convect up to the next floor. If the room has the large stairway then I suspect you will be wanting more heat and longer burn time, especially if the intent is to heat 24/7. It's shallow firebox makes it an E/W loader. If just for nights and weekend then the C160 should be ok.

 

[begreen]

Peace of mind will come from having a proper and safe installation, from hearth to chimney cap.

BIS makes zero clearance fireplaces. I'm not sure why this was suggested unless as a replacement fireplace for the existing unit. The are an old company and still make some of the Astria line of fireplace. There are a lot of medium-sized freestanding stoves, but the choices will be narrowed down by the width and height of the alcove. The C160 has a shallow E/W loading firebox. My preference would be for a stove with a deeper, square firebox that loads N/S. Based on the options the dealer presented it sounds like they used to be a Lennox dealer. Lennox bought up the Country line and some BIS products. What other product lines do they sell?

 

[Rubespur]

Thanks begreen. They recommended the BIS only as a replacement. I haven't talked to this particular store about a wood stove just yet, as I originally went in thinking about a replacement fireplace only. Their website shows they carry: Vermont, Blaze King, Dutch West, Iron Strike, and Country Flame

The other company I am working with doesn't have a storefront and I think they will order whatever it is that is decided, so any recommendations will be taken aboard.

Any pros/cons on looking at a N/S loading stove?

Thanks again,

~R

Peace of mind will come from having a proper and safe installation, from hearth to chimney cap.

BIS makes zero clearance fireplaces. I'm not sure why this was suggested unless as a replacement fireplace for the existing unit. The are an old company and still make some of the Astria line of fireplace. There are a lot of medium-sized freestanding stoves, but the choices will be narrowed down by the width and height of the alcove. The C160 has a shallow E/W loading firebox. My preference would be for a stove with a deeper, square firebox that loads N/S. Based on the options the dealer presented it sounds like they used to be a Lennox dealer. Lennox bought up the Country line and some BIS products. What other product lines do they sell?

 

[begreen]

A N/S loader generally has a squarish firebox. An E/W loader firebox is more of a rectangular shape. An E/W loader is shallower, which helps in some narrow rooms, but it is very hard to load the firebox full without concerns of a log rolling up against the door glass. Also, the long side of the logs acts as a sort of air dam, making them a little harder to start for some. A N/S loader can be filled up with no concern of wood rolling up against the glass and air can usually travel the length of the log for easier starting. Medium sized fireboxes that load N/S can be found in some mid-sized stoves by Lopi, Pacific Energy, Napoleon, Quadrafire, etc.. The Country ST210 may also work, but I would check it out with a tape measure to see what the distance is from the door glass to the rear firebrick and then subtract 1.5".

 

[Rubespur]

Thanks so much for the help, begreen!

~R

A N/S loader generally has a squarish firebox. An E/W loader firebox is more of a rectangular shape. An E/W loader is shallower, which helps in some narrow rooms, but it is very hard to load the firebox full without concerns of a log rolling up against the door glass. Also, the long side of the logs acts as a sort of air dam, making them a little harder to start for some. A N/S loader can be filled up with no concern of wood rolling up against the glass and air can usually travel the length of the log for easier starting. Medium sized fireboxes that load N/S can be found in some mid-sized stoves by Lopi, Pacific Energy, Napoleon, Quadrafire, etc.. The Country ST210 may also work, but I would check it out with a tape measure to see what the distance is from the door glass to the rear firebrick and then subtract 1.5".