Buck stove shot gun control

[Crank shaft]

Thank you to all, I feel a little bit more comfortable running this beast! Just don't want to hurt my family or burn the house down.

 

[begreen]

You've done the right thing by asking questions. Buck needs to have a clear diagram of the many controls on this stove with lucid and accurate descriptions of their usage.

 

[coltfever]

Did you get a chance yet to go over to your son's and get to the bottom of the air routing? Do the two side controls do the same thing, just feeding the air wash from different points? While you're at it, rip out the cat shield and see if there's an air channel across the top of the fire box, in back of the cat, like in the 91. Heck, it's warm down there, he doesn't need to run the stove yet. I was thinking maybe the right control feeds the air wash, left control feeds the air channel. Or I could be out in left field....

Your right Woody the Model 80 does just as you mentioned and the air channel behind the cat works the same as the model 91.
2 weeks ago my son had his combustor housing out and I noticed how both stoves are the same except my 91 has firebrick lined on bottom and sides firebox where the 80 are only on bottom.

 

[Woody Stover]

Your right Woody the Model 80 does just as you mentioned and the air channel behind the cat works the same as the model 91.

Thanks for the clarification, colt! Mike, this knowledge will give you an added degree of control over the burn. To verify this, next time you load the stove and it is catching pretty well, close the shotgun air. Then close the left slider and open the right slider all the way and observe the burn. If the right is the air wash, you should see flame increase in the front of the load. If you then reverse the air, left slider wide open and right slider closed, you should see a decrease in the flame in front and an increase if flame about half way back in the load. This particular scenario would verify that the left slider is feeding the air channel half way back on the roof of the firebox. Right now, if the stove is constructed like the Buck, it may be hard to see the channel unless you have the cat shield off. You may still be able to see the end of the channel if the stove is cold and you can use a flashlight and a mirror in the box.

 

[Crank shaft]

You've done the right thing by asking questions. Buck needs to have a clear diagram of the many controls on this stove with lucid and accurate descriptions of their usage.

I know I have called them 3 times and talked to 3 different people and got 3 different answers to the same question. I'm really glad I found and joined this site. Lots of info and great people. I feel more comfortable operating this stove just still a little nervous.

 

[Crank shaft]

Thanks for the clarification, colt! Mike, this knowledge will give you an added degree of control over the burn. To verify this, next time you load the stove and it is catching pretty well, close the shotgun air. Then close the left slider and open the right slider all the way and observe the burn. If the right is the air wash, you should see flame increase in the front of the load. If you then reverse the air, left slider wide open and right slider closed, you should see a decrease in the flame in front and an increase if flame about half way back in the load. This particular scenario would verify that the left slider is feeding the air channel half way back on the roof of the firebox. Right now, if the stove is constructed like the Buck, it may be hard to see the channel unless you have the cat shield off. You may still be able to see the end of the channel if the stove is cold and you can use a flashlight and a mirror in the box.

Excellent, I have a fire going now with no flame and close to bed time. I will Stoke one up when I get home from work tomorrow night and try that. I will post and let you know how it goes. Buck was supposed to get back intouch with me today but I never heard from them. I think I'm going to love this stove especially after all of the advice. But I'm not to fond if Bucks support right now. Thank you!

 

[Woody Stover]

I think I'm going to love this stove especially after all of the advice. But I'm not to fond if Bucks support right now.

I grew to love the 91 once I got it figured out. But I had issues due to the stove being used. The main thing was getting the ash pan gasket leak under control, then I had better control of the air entering the stove. With a new stove, I predict that you'll be up to speed pretty quickly. As to support, the answer I got in email left me wanting more info. You know damn well that the guys in the back know everything about the stoves. Those customer service folks need to consult them, instead of giving a half-baked answer... Or they need more complete training. But a lot of confusion could be avoided it, like begreen said, they would re-write that section of the manual.

 

[Crank shaft]

I grew to love the 91 once I got it figured out. But I had issues due to the stove being used. The main thing was getting the ash pan gasket leak under control, then I had better control of the air entering the stove. With a new stove, I predict that you'll be up to speed pretty quickly. Support, the answer I got in email left me wanting more info. You know damn well that the guys in the back know everything about the stoves. Those customer service folks need to consult them, instead of just making something up...

I agree! What should I look for and what is the fix for the air leak?

 

[Woody Stover]

I will Stoke one up when I get home from work tomorrow night and try that.

From what coltfever says, the left slider should enable you to add a little air further back in the box. This will be useful if you still have a problem with wood being unburned in the back of the box. You could give it a little left slider air from the beginning, or if someone can make adjustments while you're at work, they could add a little left slider in the second half of the burn. I didn't have to do that; Once I had the stove cruising, I had the shotgun (left) air off and the right slider open maybe 3/8" or so, and that supplied both the air wash and the channel.
You will learn a lot on the weekend when you can observe the entire burn, trying one initial air setting at the beginning, or making adjustments along the way. Because the 91 was at my MIL's house, I just went there twice a day to load, then left, and seldom had the chance to observe the burn as it proceeded. It therefore took me longer to figure it all out. Also bear in mind that outside temps will affect draft so you may have to factor that into your air settings as well when temps take a nose-dive.

 

[begreen]

I can just imagine teaching my wife to run this stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

What should I look for and what is the fix for the air leak?

My problem was that over the five years the original owner had the stove, the ash pan gasket ends had frayed and left a 1/4" or larger gap where air could enter and come up through the ash dump lid. I could see the coals glowing brightly in that area. Then the load would burn too fast and the cat temp could go high (approaching 1800.) My solution was to re-gasket the ash pan and work a small amount of high-temp (orange) silicone gasket maker (available at the auto parts store) into the ends of the gasket to keep them from unraveling. This is the same stuff I used on the door gasket as well. The gaskets are glued with silicone from the factory. I don't know if your pan is the same but on the 91, you have to glue the top run of gasket on pretty high, up where the front of the ash pan curves, for it to catch the top of the ash pan housing squarely. If the gasket is hitting the housing right, you should be able to see a small flattening of the gasket where it hits the housing. Another thing, always use OEM gaskets. That way you know you are getting the correct type and density of gasket that the stove requires.

 

[Woody Stover]

I can just imagine teaching my wife to run this stove.

Luckily, all you have to do is imagine it. I had to teach my wife and her sister enough to run the stove when I couldn't make it over there. They both have decent aptitude, but still, I was a nervous wreck every time they had to run it. But I don't think he's going to have the problems I had, and will get up to speed in short order.

 

[Crank shaft]

From what coltfever says, the left slider should enable you to add a little air further back in the box. This will be useful if you still have a problem with wood being unburned in the back of the box. You could give it a little left slider air from the beginning, or if someone can make adjustments while you're at work, they could add a little left slider in the second half of the burn. I didn't have to do that; Once I had the stove cruising, I had the shotgun (left) air off and the right slider open maybe 3/8" or so, and that supplied both the air wash and the channel.
You will learn a lot on the weekend when you can observe the entire burn, trying one initial air setting at the beginning, or making adjustments along the way. Because the 91 was at my MIL's house, I just went there twice a day to load, then left, and seldom had the chance to observe the burn as it proceeded. It therefore took me longer to figure it all out. Also bear in mind that outside temps will affect draft so you may have to factor that into your air settings as well when temps take a nose-dive.

Thank you, I will take all of those factors into consideration. I can't believe how much all of the effects the burn. I hope I can get this down before the winter months get here.

 

[Crank shaft]

I can just imagine teaching my wife to run this stove.

I think my wife is afraid to feed it! Lol

 

[Crank shaft]

Luckily, all you have to do is imagine it. I had to teach my wife and her sister enough to run the stove when I couldn't make it over there. They both have decent aptitude, but still, I was a nervous wreck every time they had to run it. But I don't think he's going to have the problems I had, and will get up to speed in short order.

I'm nervous every time I light this thing. Seems like I do good until i have to reload than I get the thing to hot. My wife also gets nervous at that point.

 

[coltfever]

Mike I know it seems like alot of info to take in to run your stove. Take you time with it. Have you a few small fires. Operate the controls and watch how they work. And like you just mentioned ( all good until you have to reload the stove ). If you load your stove on a large red coal bed its going to take off. Cat stoves are made for its long burn time cycle from full load to almost ashes.Thats the reason you hear people talk about these 8+ hours and some alot more burn time. These type of of wood stoves works on a complete burn cycle.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm nervous every time I light this thing. Seems like I do good until i have to reload than I get the thing to hot. My wife also gets nervous at that point.

What do you think is getting too hot, the stove, the liner or the cat? Have you got a stove meter? I have one on the front of the stove next to the bypass rod, about where I think the top of the fire box intersects the front of the stove. I estimate that if I could get a meter flat on the stove top, it might read maybe a couple hundred degrees hotter than the readings I'm getting on the front of the stove. I have seen up to 550 on the front of the stove in the past when it was running hot but now that I have better control of the air, it might hit 500, max. I don't have a flue meter but I can tell when the liner is getting hot (when I have too much flame in the box at startup) because I will hear the liner expanding at the flue collar, making a sharp popping sound, distinct from the normal "stove heating up" sounds.

 

[Woody Stover]

If you load your stove on a large red coal bed its going to take off. Cat stoves are made for its long burn time cycle from full load to almost ashes.Thats the reason you hear people talk about these 8+ hours and some alot more burn time. These type of of wood stoves works on a complete burn cycle.

Right. I was loading at 12-hr. intervals, but sometimes it was sooner. I generally would pull some coals up front and burn a few small splits to get the cat meter up around 900 or so. I didn't want to have coals under all the wood or I would end up with too much wood gassing at once, so I would pull the coals to the center, front to back. Then I'd load most of the wood on the sides with no coals under it. Onto the row of coals in the center I would put a few smaller splits, then feed the center with shotgun air to get the smaller splits going, with not a lot of air wash air at this point (air wash will tend to spread the fire into the wood on the sides more quickly.) I would then bring the cat meter back up to 900 or over, then close the bypass. I might then cut the shotgun some and open the air wash a bit to keep flame in the box until the cat took off, as evidenced by the cat temp steadily rising. Better yet is when I see the cat glowing...then I know the cat burn will sustain itself. If I tried to cut the air too early, the cat might crash and I would have smoke out of the flue. Now the 80 being a bit smaller, may come up to temp and light off the cat faster.
BTW, on the 91 I can see the cat glowing by looking in around the bypass rod hole, but it's not easy to see. I have to move my head around to get the right angle to where I can see the cat glow, through that small opening. If the cat is really glowing brightly I can see the glow through the air wash, reflecting off the top of the cat shield. Maybe @coltfever can tell us if it's possible to see the cat glow through the bypass rod hole in the 80.

 

[coltfever]

yea you can see the glowing thru the rod opening in the early light off and also its reflection on top of heat shield at times.

 

[Crank shaft]

Mike I know it seems like alot of info to take in to run your stove. Take you time with it. Have you a few small fires. Operate the controls and watch how they work. And like you just mentioned ( all good until you have to reload the stove ). If you load your stove on a large red coal bed its going to take off. Cat stoves are made for its long burn time cycle from full load to almost ashes.Thats the reason you hear people talk about these 8+ hours and some alot more burn time. These type of of wood stoves works on a complete burn cycle.

Is the fire supposed to burn bright or kinda smolder? Mine seems to die down to the point where it looked like it's just red embers on the logs and no or very little TR the ghost flames

 

[Woody Stover]

Is the fire supposed to burn bright or kinda smolder? Mine seems to die down to the point where it looked like it's just red embers on the logs and no or very little TR the ghost flames

The strength of a cat stove is that it can smolder at a lower temperature, but the cat will still be active, and you can burn clean at a lower output. This is nice to be able to do in the spring and fall; You can load more wood, and still not roast yourself outta the house. The low burn is also why the cats use less wood and burn longer than non-cats. You can also run a little flame in the box early in the burn, as you have seen, but with the Woodstock straight cats I've run, adding a lot of air/flame will cause some smoke to get by the cat without being burned. I like seeing no smoke out of the stack, more than I like seeing flames in the box. As long as the house is warm, I'm content to let the stove idle along with no flame. I haven't played too much with the Buck to know weather it's possible to burn more flame and still burn clean...it was strictly "load and leave" over there for me. Now, the newer Woodstocks are hybrids (cat and secondary) so they can burn cleaner over a wider range of outputs, from low to high.
You'll have to experiment over a wide range of conditions to find out what your stove is capable of as far as heat output, burn times, clean burning etc. Once you get past the apprehension of the early days, you're gonna have a lot of fun experimenting and figuring it all out.

 

[Woody Stover]

That said, if it gets real cold and windy out, you can burn a bit of flame in the box to get more heat output if you need it. The sides of the box will get a bit warmer with flame in the box. I usually will still let it burn without flame, even when I need more heat. But once the cat and stove temp fall off a bit I will open the air up on the coals to burn them down quicker so that I can get another full load in there. Opening the air up on the coals will jack the stove temp back up. Once I load up, burn the new load in a little and get the cat burning, I'm back to higher stove top temps, and getting the amount of heat required.

 

[mellow]

You also might run into "blow back" or "puff back" with this shoulder season weather, it is when all the built up gases in the stove ignite all at once and will push smoke out of your air inlets. Don't panic if this happens, add some more air and get an active flame going again. That is why it is good to have a little bit of flame in the fire to help eat up some of that smoke.

 

[Woody Stover]

You also might run into "blow back" or "puff back" with this shoulder season weather, it is when all the built up gases in the stove ignite all at once and will push smoke out of your air inlets.

On the 91, anyway, I don't get a very vigorous ignition, just those gentle flash overs where flame fills the box for a second. The way I burn, though, I'm not tossing a load in on top of a huge coal bed, so gassing is usually moderate. Pretty similar chimney to Mike's though, 8", 22', and I burned 'er the other day when it was in the upper 50s out (had to pre-heat the chimney by burning some newspaper to start the draft though.)

 

[Crank shaft]

That said, if it gets real cold and windy out, you can burn a bit of flame in the box to get more heat output if you need it. The sides of the box will get a bit warmer with flame in the box. I usually will still let it burn without flame, even when I need more heat. But once the cat and stove temp fall off a bit I will open the air up on the coals to burn them down quicker so that I can get another full load in there. Opening the air up on the coals will jack the stove temp back up. Once I load up, burn the new load in a little and get the cat burning, I'm back to higher stove top temps, and getting the amount of heat required.

Got it now I understand. Thank you