The steam factor

Butcher · Jan 7, 2012

Just thought I'ld post this pic to see iffn I'm right in my thinking. Stove is cookin along at 600Â°. Stack temps are right at 400Â°. The humidity in the basement was at 50% and dropping as this is the first load of the day. Outside temps are just above freezing and the few wisps of white comming outta the chimney are gone before they get 3 feet away. When conditions are right I always get this and am assuming it's steam after reading some other posts here. Whatda youall think.

Thats a wet spot not some ugly goo that is spilling out.

Todd · Jan 7, 2012

Yep, sounds like steam. Smoke will be darker colored and linger on much further.

Green Energy · Jan 7, 2012

Even with no moisture content in the wood, which is almost impossible (kiln dried is still ~ 7%), water is still in the products of combustion:

CHx + O2 = CO2 + H20

In a complete combustion situation, all the H exits the combustion reaction in the form of water.

corey21 · Jan 7, 2012

Todd said:
Yep, sounds like steam. Smoke will be darker colored and linger on much further.

I agree steam does not go very far once it leaves the chimney but smoke will.

remkel · Jan 8, 2012

Your diagnosis is correct! Just some steam. It is a beautiful and reassuring site when you look up at the cap.

Woody Stover · Jan 8, 2012

If it's humid outside, how far will the steam carry before it disappears?

xman23 · Jan 9, 2012

Green Energy said:
Even with no moisture content in the wood, which is almost impossible (kiln dried is still ~ 7%), water is still in the products of combustion:

CHx + O2 = CO2 + H20

In a complete combustion situation, all the H exits the combustion reaction in the form of water.

It sounds like this is correct, but I never liked my chemistry classes

remkel · Jan 9, 2012

I have steam carry for about 10 feet from the cap. Depends how cold it is outside.

Green Energy · Jan 9, 2012

xman23 said:
Green Energy said:

Even with no moisture content in the wood, which is almost impossible (kiln dried is still ~ 7%), water is still in the products of combustion:

CHx + O2 = CO2 + H20

In a complete combustion situation, all the H exits the combustion reaction in the form of water.

Click to expand...

It sounds like this is correct, but I never liked my chemistry classes

This is a big over-simplification, as it is the general formula for burning hydrocarbons. Wood is generally made up of carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. The water vapor that is seen as steam coming out of the flue under certain conditions comes from both the moisture content in the wood and the H2O that is a product of combustion. Same reason you can see water dripping out of car tail pipes in the winter during the first 10 or 20 minutes of driving (water vapor condensing in the cold exhaust system).

While there is variations between various species, "Overall, wood has an elemental composition of about 50% carbon, 6% hydrogen, 44% oxygen, and trace
amounts of several metal ions." The main compounds are: "cellulose (Cross and Bevan, holo-, and alpha-), lignin, pentosans, and ash."

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1984/pette84a.pdf (for those who get into the chemistry, not me

)

leeave96 · Jan 9, 2012

The steam deal is a bit confusing for me. I've got two stoves burning at the same time, one a cat stove and the other a secondary tube burn type stove. When the cat is engaged, there is zero smoke or steam - none! When the secondary stove (Englander 30) is burning at 550ish stove top, zero smoke or steam. When the stove top falls below 500 degrees, I get some discharge out the chimney. It is white, thin and from the descriptions I read on this forum, it looks like steam. But it has a smoke smell to it sometimes if the wind is blowing down.

The thing is - when I clean the chimney, it's very clean - not much creosote and what's there is more like very fine brown dirt. The chimney cap is stained like there's smoke/creosote passing through it. On the cat stove's chimney, no real stain - except under the cap.

Why would the cat stove emit zero steam when burning the same wood, etc. as the secondary stove and yet the secondary stove looks like it's giving a light steam discharge at or below 500 degrees? I kind of think my white steamy discharge out the secondary stove's chimney is smoke!

Interesting thread.

Thanks,
Bill

HotCoals · Jan 9, 2012

leeave96 said:
The steam deal is a bit confusing for me. I've got two stoves burning at the same time, one a cat stove and the other a secondary tube burn type stove. When the cat is engaged, there is zero smoke or steam - none! When the secondary stove (Englander 30) is burning at 550ish stove top, zero smoke or steam. When the stove top falls below 500 degrees, I get some discharge out the chimney. It is white, thin and from the descriptions I read on this forum, it looks like steam. But it has a smoke smell to it sometimes if the wind is blowing down.

The thing is - when I clean the chimney, it's very clean - not much creosote and what's there is more like very fine brown dirt. The chimney cap is stained like there's smoke/creosote passing through it. On the cat stove's chimney, no real stain - except under the cap.

Why would the cat stove emit zero steam when burning the same wood, etc. as the secondary stove and yet the secondary stove looks like it's giving a light steam discharge at or below 500 degrees? I kind of think my white steamy discharge out the secondary stove's chimney is smoke!

Interesting thread.

Thanks,
Bill

You would think doing it on the way down would more likely be smoke rather then steam.

Wood Duck · Jan 9, 2012

leeave96 said:
The steam deal is a bit confusing for me. I've got two stoves burning at the same time, one a cat stove and the other a secondary tube burn type stove. When the cat is engaged, there is zero smoke or steam - none! When the secondary stove (Englander 30) is burning at 550ish stove top, zero smoke or steam. When the stove top falls below 500 degrees, I get some discharge out the chimney. It is white, thin and from the descriptions I read on this forum, it looks like steam. But it has a smoke smell to it sometimes if the wind is blowing down.

The thing is - when I clean the chimney, it's very clean - not much creosote and what's there is more like very fine brown dirt. The chimney cap is stained like there's smoke/creosote passing through it. On the cat stove's chimney, no real stain - except under the cap.

Why would the cat stove emit zero steam when burning the same wood, etc. as the secondary stove and yet the secondary stove looks like it's giving a light steam discharge at or below 500 degrees? I kind of think my white steamy discharge out the secondary stove's chimney is smoke!

Interesting thread.

Thanks,
Bill

The catalyst allows the rection between oxygen and smoke/vapors to occur at lower temperature which helps keep the stove burning clean when you're smouldering and there may not be enough combustion to maintain the high temps needed for secondary burn in a non-cat stove. However, the cat doesn't change the reaction or the reaction end products - in other words a cat stove should produce just as much water vapor as a non-cat stove if both are burning the same amount of wood cleanly. Do cat stoves allow less air to move up the stack? Maybe the lower air flow in a cat stove means the water vapor dissipates sooner so you can't see it?? that doesn't make any sense - i guess I don't know why the cat stove seems to produce less water unless it is burning less wood.

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The steam factor

Butcher

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