Calling In The Warranty On Woodstock Steel Cat

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chipsoflyin said:
they have got this stove right, this has got to be the easiest stove to operate ive ever owned, load it up, let it rip, neck it down, forget it. a cat probe makes this process to easy, able to tell when cat stalls. condor makes a digital probe ive been using for a month and a half, wire holds up good no sign of burnt insulation.
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Have you noticed the differences between your internal cat probe and surface temps? Maybe the external 200-250 temps doesn't really mean the internal cat temps are at that 400-500 light off range?
 
All the more reasons i feel all cat stoves should come with probes. Something really, its just a good thing to have. Cant really do much without knowing the light off temps
 
fire_man said:
Second point: I tried engaging at a MUCH higher than my usual normal light off temperature, per suggestion by sir Ciccio. Resuts: Stove top temp TOOK OFF like a rocket! Normally I was engaging at 250F thinking this was more than good, since the claim is that SS cats can be engaged at 200F. 250F used to work just fine. But last night I engaged at 350F and the stovetop temp was definitely headed toward 500F before I went to bed. Hopefully my wife followed my request to get the final peak temp before she crashed. But even better news, in the morning the stovetop was above 300F, instead of down near 200F. So it's starting to look to me like the light off temp has increased. It's too early to say for sure, this was just one test and the new cat is arriving soon. I might want to play with this for a couple more days before sending this cat to WS.
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I have been doing about the same thing with my Fireview. I let it get up to around 350 before I engage the cat. I'll then leave the the air at about 1.5 for a few minutes to really heat up the cat and then set it at just under 1 and leave it there for the rest of the burn. With a full load of Black Locust, the stove top will be at around 300 6 or 7 hours later. If it is colder outside, I can engage at a slightly lower temp and run at a lower temp to.
 
Back in November I was thinking about drilling a hole in my soapstone top for a cat probe. Maybe this is the motivation I need to do it. Sure would be nice to know the cat temp when engaging.
 
KevinG said:
Back in November I was thinking about drilling a hole in my soapstone top for a cat probe. Maybe this is the motivation I need to do it. Sure would be nice to know the cat temp when engaging.
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Can you see the cat looking through the glass?
 
The cat is completely out of sight on the Progress. I've ordered a couple of k type thermocouples with the intent of measuring pre and post cat temperatures in the same manner as it's done by WS. They are sending me a new cat, so I'll be able to test before and after replacement on my stove, which should be interesting, and I'll post the results, of course.
 
I could see the Fireview's cat through the old expanded metal screen. But it's hard to see it through the new inconel screen.

In other news, I noticed that my new inconel screen was completely clogged on the sides and maybe 50% clogged on the front. That would certainly explain the loss of draft. I had cleaned it in-place 5-6 weeks ago but it definitely needed it again. So I took a wire brush and cleaned it off maybe 80%. The draft seems better now but the stove top temp topped out around 400-450 F.

I don't have any backup heat in the house so it's hard to let the stove get cool enough to remove the screen for a thorough cleaning this often.
 
buck1200 said:
The cat is completely out of sight on the Progress. I've ordered a couple of k type thermocouples with the intent of measuring pre and post cat temperatures in the same manner as it's done by WS. They are sending me a new cat, so I'll be able to test before and after replacement on my stove, which should be interesting, and I'll post the results, of course.
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Buck1200: Do you think your seating problem that you fixed solved your cat problem?
 
Flatbedford said:
fire_man said:
Second point: I tried engaging at a MUCH higher than my usual normal light off temperature, per suggestion by sir Ciccio. Resuts: Stove top temp TOOK OFF like a rocket! Normally I was engaging at 250F thinking this was more than good, since the claim is that SS cats can be engaged at 200F. 250F used to work just fine. But last night I engaged at 350F and the stovetop temp was definitely headed toward 500F before I went to bed. Hopefully my wife followed my request to get the final peak temp before she crashed. But even better news, in the morning the stovetop was above 300F, instead of down near 200F. So it's starting to look to me like the light off temp has increased. It's too early to say for sure, this was just one test and the new cat is arriving soon. I might want to play with this for a couple more days before sending this cat to WS.
Click to expand...

I have been doing about the same thing with my Fireview. I let it get up to around 350 before I engage the cat. I'll then leave the the air at about 1.5 for a few minutes to really heat up the cat and then set it at just under 1 and leave it there for the rest of the burn. With a full load of Black Locust, the stove top will be at around 300 6 or 7 hours later. If it is colder outside, I can engage at a slightly lower temp and run at a lower temp to.
Click to expand...

Steve: Why do you engage at such a high temp? I think this may help solve my problem, but WS always said 200F was good for a SS cat, 250F was good for ceramic?
 
buck1200 said:
I checked the cat tonight and found clear evidence that it was not seated squarely on the gasket- it rocked within the pocket, and the top half of the gasket is brown and sooty. I flipped the cat over (it fit tighter the other way) and jammed a little fiberglass rope under it to keep it snug. Now it's burning much better. I have a nice dark firebox, a top stone approaching 500, and a flue temp solidly at 400, both right where they should be prior to turning in for the night.

Making 'progress'.
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Thinking about doing the same. How much did you use and where did you put it? Did you use the gasket material like came with the PH? It bothers me for stuff to not be secured, at least to a small degree. I didn't like the gravity fit when I saw it, but then I'm not an expert. Thanks--
 
If I engage at a lower temp the stove doesn't really heat up. I will get a low, smokey burn at around 350. If I let it get nice and hot without the cat and then engage, but keep the air around 1.5 - 2 for about 5 minutes and then lower it to to 1 or less the cat seems to heat up much better and do it's job. If I do this the stove top temp usually goes up to 550 - 600 within 20 - 30 minutes and stays there for a while. the stove will end up settling in at 400-450 for next several hours. This is how I have been burning most of the season. I still won't say it is a SS cat issue because of the other variables I mentioned above, warm outside temps and reduced draft, and all this not so quick to light up Black Locust. I did have better results with the little bit of Ash that I have, but I have been saving that for the real shoulder burning this spring.

I'll summarize by saying that I think the SS cat needs to be engaged much hotter than 200 or 250 for best results. 300 - 350 or even 400 works best for my setup and fuel.
 
Stump_Branch said:
All the more reasons i feel all cat stoves should come with probes. Something really, its just a good thing to have. Cant really do much without knowing the light off temps
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+1
I depend on my cat probe to tell me what it is doing. I run without the blowers when I can and a couple of times I had to turn them on because the cat temps were getting into the 1700-1800 range and I didn't want to damage it. I would have never know that were it not for the probe. Not that I'm that experienced with a cat (on my second season) but it never has made sense to me not to have one. On the other hand, like a lot of people on here, I like to measure everything. %-P
 
Flatbedford said:
If I engage at a lower temp the stove doesn't really heat up. I will get a low, smokey burn at around 350. If I let it get nice and hot without the cat and then engage, but keep the air around 1.5 - 2 for about 5 minutes and then lower it to to 1 or less the cat seems to heat up much better and do it's job. If I do this the stove top temp usually goes up to 550 - 600 within 20 - 30 minutes and stays there for a while. the stove will end up settling in at 400-450 for next several hours. This is how I have been burning most of the season. I still won't say it is a SS cat issue because of the other variables I mentioned above, warm outside temps and reduced draft, and all this not so quick to light up Black Locust. I did have better results with the little bit of Ash that I have, but I have been saving that for the real shoulder burning this spring.

I'll summarize by saying that I think the SS cat needs to be engaged much hotter than 200 or 250 for best results. 300 - 350 or even 400 works best for my setup and fuel.
Click to expand...

This should not be the case with the new steel cat, it should light off sooner and the temps should rise quickly as mine did for the first few months. Now it's just like yours, I have to engage a little hotter and give it more air than I use to to get it up over my desired 500 temps before turning the air down for a longer burn.

The ceramic cat I can just engage at #1 and it instantly glows and the temps go up fast. The steel cat it's more like 1.5 to engage or it stalls out.
 
WoodpileOCD said:
Stump_Branch said:
All the more reasons i feel all cat stoves should come with probes. Something really, its just a good thing to have. Cant really do much without knowing the light off temps
Click to expand...

+1
I depend on my cat probe to tell me what it is doing. I run without the blowers when I can and a couple of times I had to turn them on because the cat temps were getting into the 1700-1800 range and I didn't want to damage it. I would have never know that were it not for the probe. Not that I'm that experienced with a cat (on my second season) but it never has made sense to me not to have one. On the other hand, like a lot of people on here, I like to measure everything. %-P
Click to expand...

I wish Woodstock would come out with a more accurate thermocouple probe for all their stoves we could purchase instead of the Condar probe which isn't as accurate and not installed in a good location.

Even drilling through the stove top doesn't make the Condar probe more accurate imo. There is too much radiant heat effecting that coil spring on the dial when you really need the temp right at the tip of the probe within 1/2" of the cat like a thermocouple can provide.
 
I received another email from Tom stating he will send me a replacement cat, either s/s or ceramic and would really like to test my old steel cat. Also said they think the greenish color of my cat is chromium and they are trying to figure out the cause and how heat effects it.

Also was interested in my observations of that trapped floating flame inside the new scoop next to the cat. They have tested and had a hard time creating a situation where flame impingement actually causes harm to the catalyst and thought the whole flame impingement talk was over rated but it was worth taking another look and recreate this situation in their lab.

Sud Chemie is also testing a few steel cats that were retrieved from Woodstock and they should have results soon.
 
So are you going to try a new ceramic cat and see if there's a noticeable difference?
 
Todd said:
I received another email from Tom stating he will send me a replacement cat, either s/s or ceramic and would really like to test my old steel cat. Also said they think the greenish color of my cat is chromium and they are trying to figure out the cause and how heat effects it.

Also was interested in my observations of that trapped floating flame inside the new scoop next to the cat. They have tested and had a hard time creating a situation where flame impingement actually causes harm to the catalyst and thought the whole flame impingement talk was over rated but it was worth taking another look and recreate this situation in their lab.

Sud Chemie is also testing a few steel cats that were retrieved from Woodstock and they should have results soon.
Click to expand...

Does that mean they don't need any more cats to test or work on? Thought I'd call and offer mine, since it's been in service for about the shortest time of any of 'em.

Also, can a ceramic cat be substituted for the S/S cat one-for-one with no mods? That would be cool, er, uh, great!

From working with Coors and touring their ceramic plant, they were saying that ceramic can be formulated to meet almost any application. Kinda like stainless: there are several formulations--301, 309, 409, 410, 420 & 430 that I know about and maybe more. Pete Coors was explaining that it was almost limitless. Wonder if WS has explored all the different formulations that might be available. From what I remember, there are always trade offs, like less of this property for more durability, for example, but that it can be made for a wide variety of uses. Just wondering.
 
Todd said:
..... they think the greenish color of my cat is chromium and they are trying to figure out the cause and how heat effects it.
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Green like this?
 

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Man,that don't look good..very small holes also it seems.
 
Here's my cat and screen after about a month burning. It took about 10 minutes to remove, clean, and install them both. The only problem is that the stove has to be pretty cool to do this comfortably.
 

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Flatbedford said:
Todd said:
..... they think the greenish color of my cat is chromium and they are trying to figure out the cause and how heat effects it.
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Green like this?
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Yep, but mine doesn't get as clogged as yours. What kind of wood are you burning? I'm burning 3 year old Oak.
 

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Is there a coating on the steel, some of the steel ones have a coating dont they?
 
Texas boy said:
Todd said:
I received another email from Tom stating he will send me a replacement cat, either s/s or ceramic and would really like to test my old steel cat. Also said they think the greenish color of my cat is chromium and they are trying to figure out the cause and how heat effects it.

Also was interested in my observations of that trapped floating flame inside the new scoop next to the cat. They have tested and had a hard time creating a situation where flame impingement actually causes harm to the catalyst and thought the whole flame impingement talk was over rated but it was worth taking another look and recreate this situation in their lab.

Sud Chemie is also testing a few steel cats that were retrieved from Woodstock and they should have results soon.
Click to expand...

Does that mean they don't need any more cats to test or work on? Thought I'd call and offer mine, since it's been in service for about the shortest time of any of 'em.

Also, can a ceramic cat be substituted for the S/S cat one-for-one with no mods? That would be cool, er, uh, great!

From working with Coors and touring their ceramic plant, they were saying that ceramic can be formulated to meet almost any application. Kinda like stainless: there are several formulations--301, 309, 409, 410, 420 & 430 that I know about and maybe more. Pete Coors was explaining that it was almost limitless. Wonder if WS has explored all the different formulations that might be available. From what I remember, there are always trade offs, like less of this property for more durability, for example, but that it can be made for a wide variety of uses. Just wondering.
Click to expand...

You could always ask them? I don't know if they make a ceramic cat for the new stove, I think they were all steel?
 
Chromium tends to be the first thing to burn off on stainless. Look at the color distortions on ss welds, or take a torch to a piece. Each color represent a different temp. I think green is lower on that scale.

Id be concerned that the wash has been compromised, if that was the case. Cr melts at 3465f, Pd 2830f, and Pt 3214f. If the bulk of the wash is palladium, Pd, then id say evidence of chromium burning off posses a problem.

Wheres the master of chemistry, adios? Id suspect he could give us a good breakdown.
 
I'm burning 2 year CSS oak and my screen was far more clogged than that. The cat was about the same after a month or so of burning.

stump_branch - Those temps are fascinating but I find it hard to believe that the interior temp on a stove could get anywhere close to 2800f! I'll be very interested to hear what Woodstock says about these cats.
 
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