Harman PB105 Pellet Boiler

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Sgt600

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Feb 24, 2012
3
MA
I bit the bullet and bought the Harman PB105 to help elevate the rising oil prices. My plan is run the PB105 during the winter and use the oil boiler during the warmer seasons and as a back up. I read through the manual and have everything pretty much figured out but need help with two things;

1) What are the pro's and con's between hooking it up in series or parallel with the oil boiler?

2) Venting the pellet boiler:
a) Even though the oil boiler and the pellet boiler won't run at the same time it is my understanding it is unlawful to pipe both through the same chimney, Right?
b) Need some suggestions on how to vent the pellet boiler. I have very limited space on the side of the house where the PB105 will be placed.


Any help and suggestion you can provide for this New England rookie would be greatly appreciated. And anyone with a PB105 that has some good to know tips please chime in. This is my first experience with pellets and the only thing I know for sure is you get what you pay for.

Thanks,
 
If this is a DIY installation and the area that you live requires an inspection prior to firing, I would be contacting the inspector to get his/her thoughts about the venting in relation to the placement of the pellet boiler, the inspector will tell you what you can/cannot do. I have my PB connected in parallel with the OB, the same as when I had a wood boiler for whatever thats worth, piped in parallel does what I want, keeping both boilers at the same operating temps. Does the PB105 that you purchased have the pressure ignition? The reason I ask is because of the issue with the "burnpot bubble", the newest designed burnpot to stop the bubble can only be used with the pressure ignition.
 
Thanks for the advise. I just purchased it and getting it delivered on Weds. I don't know if it has a pressure ignition, how do you tell?
 
Sgt600 said:
I bit the bullet and bought the Harman PB105 to help elevate the rising oil prices. My plan is run the PB105 during the winter and use the oil boiler during the warmer seasons and as a back up. I read through the manual and have everything pretty much figured out but need help with two things;

2) Venting the pellet boiler:
a) Even though the oil boiler and the pellet boiler won't run at the same time it is my understanding it is unlawful to pipe both through the same chimney, Right?
Any help and suggestion you can provide for this New England rookie would be greatly appreciated. And anyone with a PB105 that has some good to know tips please chime in. This is my first experience with pellets and the only thing I know for sure is you get what you pay for.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

In Maine, that was reversed a year or so ago. It is now legal to have 2 heating appliances vented into the same chimney as long as it is lined. So you might want to check the local codes, it might be doable.
 
Call the dealer and ask whether it has the pressure ignition or finned ignition. I would not accept the boiler if it had the finned ignition.
 
I've got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I've been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven't had a problem. So I wouldn't worry too much about which system you get.
 
Andrew Churchill said:
I've got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I've been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven't had a problem. So I wouldn't worry too much about which system you get.
Click to expand...
The 15 fin igniters are 306 watts, not 350 watts as you mention. They do work better than the 13 fin ones but they do not ignite as quickly as the pressure ignition, I have used all three, now using the pressure ignition. The pressure ignition system is the latest ignition system that is being installed in the Harman central heating units, one of the reasons for the increase in costs of them so, if one accepts a unit without the pressure ignition, it's like paying for something without getting it. IMHO, the biggest concern is, if one ends up with a unit that has the "burnpot bubble" issue, the pressure ignition system is required for the new designed burnpot from Harman. The link below confirms that anyone purchasing a PB-105 should be concerned with the burnpot.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53004/
 
What's 44 watts between friends..... ;0


wil said:
Andrew Churchill said:
I've got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I've been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven't had a problem. So I wouldn't worry too much about which system you get.
Click to expand...
The 15 fin igniters are 306 watts, not 350 watts as you mention. They do work better than the 13 fin ones but they do not ignite as quickly as the pressure ignition, I have used all three, now using the pressure ignition. The pressure ignition system is the latest ignition system that is being installed in the Harman central heating units, one of the reasons for the increase in costs of them so, if one accepts a unit without the pressure ignition, it's like paying for something without getting it. IMHO, the biggest concern is, if one ends up with a unit that has the "burnpot bubble" issue, the pressure ignition system is required for the new designed burnpot from Harman. The link below confirms that anyone purchasing a PB-105 should be concerned with the burnpot.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53004/
Click to expand...
 
Andrew Churchill said:
What's 44 watts between friends..... ;0


wil said:
Andrew Churchill said:
I've got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I've been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven't had a problem. So I wouldn't worry too much about which system you get.
Click to expand...
The 15 fin igniters are 306 watts, not 350 watts as you mention. They do work better than the 13 fin ones but they do not ignite as quickly as the pressure ignition, I have used all three, now using the pressure ignition. The pressure ignition system is the latest ignition system that is being installed in the Harman central heating units, one of the reasons for the increase in costs of them so, if one accepts a unit without the pressure ignition, it's like paying for something without getting it. IMHO, the biggest concern is, if one ends up with a unit that has the "burnpot bubble" issue, the pressure ignition system is required for the new designed burnpot from Harman. The link below confirms that anyone purchasing a PB-105 should be concerned with the burnpot.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53004/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
44 watts doesn't sound lke very much but...14% less watts equals 14% less heat generated by the igniter for ignition. Pressure ignition igniter is 450 watts vs 306 watt finned igniter.
 
All I can say is my 15 fin igniter works great. I'm glad I'm not paying the electrical bill for the extra 144 watts! ;)
 
Although I have no data to support my thoughts, I'm thinking it's quite possible that the pressure ignition uses less power per ignition than the finned ignition even though the igniter is a higher wattage. The period of time per ignition that the igniter is energized using the finned ignition is greater than using the pressure ignition so..... I don't have the data, just don't know. I'm glad that you're happy with the ignition in you're boiler but......... if you were one of the many including myself that had the "burnpot bubble" issue, the resolution from Harman was the new burnpot design that only can be used with the pressure ignition, I'm quite sure that you would be changing you're thoughts about which ignition system would be the best choice.
 
Don't go putting words in my mouth. I never said the 15 fin igniter was the best solution. I only said mine is working great since the upgrade from the 13 fin.
 
I’ve got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I’ve been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven’t had a problem. So I wouldn’t worry too much about which system you get.
Click to expand...
In post #6 I expained why the OP shouldn't accept a boiler with a finned ignition. Quite simple really, possible burnpot bubble issue with finned ignition equals no new designed burnpot available to date, possible burnpot bubble issue with pressure ignition equals the new burnpot design that just may correct the issue so........ IMHO, anybody purchasing a Harman central heating unit should be aware.
 
1) What are the pro's and con's between hooking it up in series or parallel with the oil boiler?
If you pipe the boilers in parallel, you avoid heating the water in the lag/back-up boiler. This saves energy.

2) Venting the pellet boiler:
a) Even though the oil boiler and the pellet boiler won't run at the same time it is my understanding it is unlawful to pipe both through the same chimney, Right?
I believe Maine is the only state where sharing a flue pipe is allowed. Of course, it's very important that flue gases go up the chimney, and not into the other boiler.
 
Geo. said:
2) Venting the pellet boiler:
a) Even though the oil boiler and the pellet boiler won't run at the same time it is my understanding it is unlawful to pipe both through the same chimney, Right?
I believe Maine is the only state where sharing a flue pipe is allowed. Of course, it's very important that flue gases go up the chimney, and not into the other boiler.
Click to expand...

You cannot share a flue in Maine with any kind of wood involved. You can share Oil, LP or NG as long as the Oil vent in on the bottom. I know that there is legislation in the works to allow pellet devices to be in a shared flue with Oil or a Gas but I have not heard of any passage yet.
 
Geo. said:
2) Venting the pellet boiler:
a) Even though the oil boiler and the pellet boiler won't run at the same time it is my understanding it is unlawful to pipe both through the same chimney, Right?
I believe Maine is the only state where sharing a flue pipe is allowed. Of course, it's very important that flue gases go up the chimney, and not into the other boiler.
Click to expand...

You cannot share a flue in Maine with any kind of wood involved. You can share Oil, LP or NG as long as the Oil vent in on the bottom. I know that there is legislation in the works to allow pellet devices to be in a shared flue with Oil or a Gas but I have not heard of any passage yet.
 
Thank you for your insite. Its looking like I am going to have to figure out a way to get a new chimney out of the basement. The problem I have is where the pellet boiler is located in the basement there is no area where there is a door or window more than 4 feet apart. Guess the only thing to do is build a chimney up past the doorway.
What I thought would be an easy install has turned into a pain in the ass and much more expensive.
 
I've seen many oil-wood combo units being sold that are vented into one flue, I'm sure that they are electrically wired so only one fuel is burning at once. It was mentioned in you're first post that both boilers wouldn't be fired at the same time so......... if this is the case, installing a single pole, double throw switch would allow only one boiler to run at a time. The center position of the switch would be off, neither boiler would be energized, up position would power the oil boiler, down position would power the pellet boiler. This would be something to ask a inspector for approval to solve the venting issue.
 
Andrew Churchill said:
I've got the older style ignition in my PB105. When I first got it the ignitor was the old style 13 fin 250 watt ignitor and it was terrible!!!! I had frequent explosions and extremely long ignite times. It was so bad I turned off the auto ignite system and went to the continuous burn option.

Then they came out with the 15 fin 350 watt ignitor and that baby works like a charm. No more explosions and fast ignite times. I've been running in auto for 2 years now and I haven't had a problem. So I wouldn't worry too much about which system you get.
Click to expand...

Sgt600,
I don't have anywhere near the experience with the PB105 that Andrew and Wil have, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. I bought my boiler last summer, but just got around to installing it DIY. I did check to see which igniter it had and found out that the boiler was made in Aug of 2009 and has the 13 finned early igniter. Been running on auto since the first fire 12 days ago and, so far (knock-on-wood) and no pun intended, the boiler has lit up in very short times and reliably so. I'm guessing a bit, but, at this time, I thing that adjusting the low and high draft according to Harman's instructions will surely help, if not facilitate, the quick ignition.
 
the manual will tell you not to install into a flue serving any other appliance. I would tell you the same thing.
 
Delta-T said:
the manual will tell you not to install into a flue serving any other appliance. I would tell you the same thing.
Click to expand...
This is true but.......... if one appliance is de-energized when the other is energized, the flue is only serving one appliance, I don't know, the reason to get the inspectors blessing prior to doing it.
 
wil said:
Delta-T said:
the manual will tell you not to install into a flue serving any other appliance. I would tell you the same thing.
Click to expand...
This is true but.......... if one appliance is de-energized when the other is energized, the flue is only serving one appliance, I don't know, the reason to get the inspectors blessing prior to doing it.
Click to expand...

Its less about 2 appliances running at the same time, as it is about exhaust gases taking the "path of least resistence". You dont want a positive pressure exhaust stream having the opportunity to find its way into your house through another appliance. The vac sensor would cover your butt if a dedicated flue got plugged up, but a flue shared with something would provide for an alternate route for the exhaust to go.
 
I agree with exhaust gases taking the "path of least resistance", IMHO, the path of least resistance would be up a chimney with natural draft rather than through another appliance, if the chimney was blocked, yes, the gases may enter the other appliance.
 
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