2013-2014 Blaze King Performance Thread(everything BK)

Zanimal said:

I'm a little confused about the cat being the hottest part of the stove.
If the cat produces the most heat. Then why is it positioned so that there is a direct rout from the back of the cat up and out the chimney? Should there not be some kind maze for the air to flow through to transfer heat to the outside of the stove?

There is also no TV in our house to make noise. The addition of any fan would be unwelcome noise.

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There is a heat shield directly behind the cat that deflects the heat from going straight up the chimney. The thermometer sits right in between the cat and shield.

shoot-straight said:

i disagree with highbeam, the cat temp IS a very important indicator of how the stove is running. the stove is designed to have a "hot spot" over the cat which the blowers remove heat from and into your room. you need the blower kit. the hotter the cat gets, the more gases its burning. thats a good thing.

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You can certainly disagree but I'm the one with an 80 degree house. Your owner's manual also has no use for the cat meter other than assuring light-off.

I also want to speak to the blower issue. My ultra has side shields, a convection deck, and a rear shield so is mostly double walled. The fans allow much higher heat production and I use them when I want rapid room temp rise. However, the stove is perfectly capable of heating without the fans. All stoves have a combination of natural convection and radiant heat output.

I know you eastern folks are in a cold snap. Is that the real problem? are you all just seeing a temporary stove undersizing issue since the heat load is so high right now?

99% of the time it's either wet wood or the stove just isn't up to the task.

My parents and I have identical stoves. Their house is much bigger than mine but with better insulation. I struggle to get the heat I want and they need to run it on low or they are opening the windows.

Highbeam said:

I know you eastern folks are in a cold snap. Is that the real problem? are you all just seeing a temporary stove undersizing issue since the heat load is so high right now?

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+1

Highbeam said:

I know you eastern folks are in a cold snap. Is that the real problem? are you all just seeing a temporary stove undersizing issue since the heat load is so high right now?

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I'd like to believe that.
But I keep going back to the fact that I fired up the VC Defiant in the basement and in a couple hours the whole house is now 62 degrees.
I set the Ashford on 1 3/4 just at the end of the normal range and it's barely as warm as an oil space heater. The sides are only warm to the touch and the top is not very hot at all.

The Defiant is rated for 100 sq ft less than the Ashford and the Ashford struggles to keep the 200 sq ft room it is in warm.

Do you get a box full of fire at higher settings? A 2.5, I get a bunch of crazy fire when a fresh load starts to off-gas. For max heat, I turn it down until I have just a bit of active flame. That is after it has settled in, usually after 30 minues or so. Even with no flame, or any glow in the firebox at all, I see 500-600 on top of the cat for at least a couple of hours.

Something just isn't right. Is your dealer going to look at it?

hack said:

99% of the time it's either wet wood or the stove just isn't up to the task.

My parents and I have identical stoves. Their house is much bigger than mine but with better insulation. I struggle to get the heat I want and they need to run it on low or they are opening the windows.

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My sister and I have almost identical stoves. Her house is 1000 sq ft bigger, and a whole lot easier to heat than mine.

Highbeam said:

You can certainly disagree but I'm the one with an 80 degree house. Your owner's manual also has no use for the cat meter other than assuring light-off.

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yep its hard to argue with an 80deg house. that was never my intent to argue to begin with. all i am trying to get across is that the temp that the cat is running at tells me how much heat its producing. i think thats pretty important. additionally, you have to remember that we have an elevated cast plate that sits above the top of the stove. its temp can vary widely based on lots of factors including the temp of the room, how much airlfo, etc. we have no way of actually knowing the stove temp, other than pulling the plate off anf checking it, or watching the cat temp. i havent operated my new stove very long, but i do know that my stove puts out more heat the higher the cat temp goes. so, i think that makes it pretty important to me.

Highbeam said:

You can certainly disagree but I'm the one with an 80 degree house. Your owner's manual also has no use for the cat meter other than assuring light-off.

I also want to speak to the blower issue. My ultra has side shields, a convection deck, and a rear shield so is mostly double walled. The fans allow much higher heat production and I use them when I want rapid room temp rise. However, the stove is perfectly capable of heating without the fans. All stoves have a combination of natural convection and radiant heat output.

I know you eastern folks are in a cold snap. Is that the real problem? are you all just seeing a temporary stove undersizing issue since the heat load is so high right now?

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I think I see what your general point is HB but I get more heat with my cat at 1400 than 600, BTW I'm sitting in 80 degrees right now too, when I got up this morning it was 75 in the family room.

Zanimal, you should contact Webby, I think he works in the stove field and also owns an Ashford, he's very knowledgeable so maybe he can help you figure out what's what or at least point you in the right direction to find out what's going on.

sasquatch said:

Not to be nosey but how many sq.ft. you heating and have you been happy with it ?

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2850 sq. ft. Two story, heating from first floor, it's exceeding all expectations, in the warm temps I've been having 30-40 I can heat my whole home mid 70s for 24 hours easily with spruce

Dealer came over and brought me some different wood to try.
According to his moisture meter it is about the same as what I have been using.

I did turn the stove down to 1 3/4 to show that there was no air leak. And after a while the cat increased in temperature. It seemed to be making more heat than I expected after a while but I have nothing to back that up since I ignored the Defiant in the basement and the house got too hot.

The dealer thought that the fan was really only to push the air from one end of the room to the other and that it did not make a significant impact on the performance. We put a fan by the stove but it started driving me crazy so I turned it off. Guess I will see if that makes any difference at all overnight.

Zanimal said:

Dealer came over and brought me some different wood to try.
According to his moisture meter it is about the same as what I have been using.

I did turn the stove down to 1 3/4 to show that there was no air leak. And after a while the cat increased in temperature. It seemed to be making more heat than I expected after a while but I have nothing to back that up since I ignored the Defiant in the basement and the house got too hot.

The dealer thought that the fan was really only to push the air from one end of the room to the other and that it did not make a significant impact on the performance. We put a fan by the stove but it started driving me crazy so I turned it off. Guess I will see if that makes any difference at all overnight.

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It should increase after you turn the stat down, that's why most of us burn on low, try it on 1 for awhile and see where it ends up.

HotCoals said:

4 hours in.

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i noticed you have a turn damper on your setup. i had one with my hearthstone, but was told not to use one on my new BK setup. dealer wants a barometric damper to control draft if that is part of the problem.

do you leave it in that postion all the time (partially closed), or do you fiddle with it thoughout the burn?

shoot-straight said:

i noticed you have a turn damper on your setup. i had one with my hearthstone, but was told not to use one on my new BK setup. dealer wants a barometric damper to control draft if that is part of the problem.

do you leave it in that postion all the time (partially closed), or do you fiddle with it thoughout the burn?

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I would definitely not put a baro damper on this woodstove, or any woodstove. What a terrible idea. First off, they work by dumping cold room air into the flue and further lowering the already very low flue temps of the BK, creo factory. In the event of a chimney fire they will lock full open and blast the flue with fresh air to further endanger your home. The baro damper will also be sucking all of your heated room air up the flue which will be replaced by cold outside air through leaks.

With that tall chimney you are likely overdrafting and the logical choice to resolve this is with a key damper. They are actually made for woodstoves.

Highbeam said:

I would definitely not put a baro damper on this woodstove, or any woodstove. What a terrible idea. First off, they work by dumping cold room air into the flue and further lowering the already very low flue temps of the BK, creo factory. In the event of a chimney fire they will lock full open and blast the flue with fresh air to further endanger your home. The baro damper will also be sucking all of your heated room air up the flue which will be replaced by cold outside air through leaks.

With that tall chimney you are likely overdrafting and the logical choice to resolve this is with a key damper. They are actually made for woodstoves.

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I understand how they work and what they do, and i totally agree with all your points. i actually have a call into an inspector to see if they are even allowed by code here. But BK actually says this:

"You may have excessive draft for your unit; call your dealer to assess the situation, a barometric damper may help."

thus the questions. i was wondering how many people use a key damper on BK's. they tout in their literature that they arent needed.

shoot-straight said:

I understand how they work and what they do, and i totally agree with all your points. i actually have a call into an inspector to see if they are even allowed by code here. But BK actually says this:

"You may have excessive draft for your unit; call your dealer to assess the situation, a barometric damper may help."

thus the questions. i was wondering how many people use a key damper on BK's. they tout in their literature that they arent needed.

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I had a key damper above my princess only because the appliance adapter I had on hand included the damper. It didn't hurt my draft but I never felt as though I needed to use it. My chimney is only 14' from collar to cap. I have since removed the damper section and installed a straight section in its place. This to improve draft and to make sweeping easier.

Hard to believe BK still thinks a baro damper is a reasonable idea.

I would like to ask what are people paying for a princess insert? Also what type of liner are you using flexible, rigid? Is your liner insulated?

I heat my house with a princess in the basement, I use mostly fir and some pine and spruce. My sq footage is 1000 up and 1000 down. And I have no blower, my house temps are usually 70 -72 upstairs and 76-80 downstairs in stove room. It will even spike to 90 if I'm keep it on high for a bit to burn of thd glass. In not sure if a blower would do any more help. But it isn't needed in my setup. And my home isn't the best insulated either.

shoot-straight said:

i noticed you have a turn damper on your setup. i had one with my hearthstone, but was told not to use one on my new BK setup. dealer wants a barometric damper to control draft if that is part of the problem.

do you leave it in that postion all the time (partially closed), or do you fiddle with it thoughout the burn?

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It was there from the old BK smoke dragon we used to have.
I have a straight up shot in a 2 story house and we are on a hill so the draft is pretty good.
I leave it where it is most of the time..may close it more if it's way windy out but maybe could do without it.
I was going to switch to double wall and leave out the damper but the more i think about it why bother.
I have no probs and I like that little bit of extra heat off the single.

Apologies in advance for a long post...it's been a while since I visited. After joining this forum, my husband and I purchased a BK Princess in 2010. It's not an exaggeration to say it changed our lives! We burn so much less wood than with our previous stove, and spend way less time tending the fire. And it's nice to wake up to a warm house, and to be able to leave home for more than a few hours in the winter. Thank you for helping me to make a good choice.

Three and a half years later, we're not getting the super-long burns (24+hours) that we once did. During the first year we owned the BK, we had to keep the thermostat set at 1 or our 1800-square-foot house would get unbearably hot. Nowadays we're typically running it in the middle ("normal") range. If we dial it down to 1, the temp drops too low for catalytic action. Is the catalyst wearing out? How can we check that?

Also, we're having an issue with our chimney cap (maybe I should post that in a separate thread). Our 25-year-old cap had gotten so corroded that we replaced it a year ago with one that looked almost identical. From the same manufacturer, we ordered an accessory that is supposed to arrest any flying embers (we live in an area where wildfires are a big concern). The accessory is a metal mesh strip that encircles the central portion of the chimney cap and it also keeps birds out, which is important to me because I once found a finch inside a stove during the off-season. Our cat had been staring at the stove for a day or two. I finally looked in there too, and was astonished to see a bird staring back at me through the stove window. It was still alive and made a full recovery.

Anyhow, our new chimney cap is a soot magnet! The diamond-shaped mesh part keeps getting totally clogged, and then the chimney doesn't draft properly. So we have to remove the whole cap and clean it every 2-3 weeks or we get smoke in the house whenever we open the stove door. (And before you ask, yes, we are burning well-seasoned wood.) I can't understand why the new cap traps so much soot; our old one had a homemade mesh attachment with a wider weave that never needed cleaning until the end of the season but was otherwise almost identical. If smoke is getting trapped in our chimney because of poor flow out the top, I bet that is causing some buildup inside the pipe too!

So, my question: Is this chimney cap performing badly because of a poorly designed accessory? Or are we experiencing this problem because our catalyst is wearing out and our wood isn't burning as completely as it did in 2010?

HotCoals said:

It was there from the old BK smoke dragon we used to have.
I have a straight up shot in a 2 story house and we are on a hill so the draft is pretty good.
I leave it where it is most of the time..may close it more if it's way windy out but maybe could do without it.
I was going to switch to double wall and leave out the damper but the more i think about it why bother.
I have no probs and I like that little bit of extra heat off the single.

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Thanks so much for the reply. We have 30+' of lined insulated chimney and also live on a hill in the windiesy spot in the area. No trees. Might give a key damper a shot so we can clamp down a bit on those windy days.

dstover said:

Or are we experiencing this problem because our catalyst is wearing out and our wood isn't burning as completely as it did in 2010?

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I just can't really imagine what else it could be. Except, of course, for the possibility that your firewood just isn't as good, or cured as well.

I know it ain't cheap - but you're gonna need one eventually anyhow - so why not buy a new cat and install it and see if it helps ? If it doesn't help you could remove it (in theory at least) and save 'til the current one really is worn out. Of course, as I understand it (I haven't done it yet) R&R'ing the cat requires a new gasket.

Decided with the dealer to invest in a blower.
Everyone seems to agree that will get us nice and toasty.

I loaded the stove at 7:00 am today and set it to a little over 2.
Got home at 1:30 pm and turned it down to 1.
Now at 4:20 pm the cat is in the inactive zone. the stove is still pretty full with fuel.

I have only ever set the thermostat to 1 before and it also went into the inactive zone.

When you do a slow burn should you turn it down to the lower setting pretty fast? Or is it OK burn on a higher setting for a while and then turn it down if it is to hot?

Zanimal said:

Decided with the dealer to invest in a blower.
Everyone seems to agree that will get us nice and toasty.

I loaded the stove at 7:00 am today and set it to a little over 2.
Got home at 1:30 pm and turned it down to 1.
Now at 4:20 pm the cat is in the inactive zone. the stove is still pretty full with fuel.

I have only ever set the thermostat to 1 before and it also went into the inactive zone.

When you do a slow burn should you turn it down to the lower setting pretty fast? Or is it OK burn on a higher setting for a while and then turn it down if it is to hot?

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Well it's been burning 9.5 hours. When you say still plenty full with fuel ...could you be a little more descriptive?
Is there actually wood in there or just coals?