2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

When the power does go off on a BK Insert- full load in box- t-stat on low- fan on low- then what do I do? Sit and watch(or polish hotrods) the cat gauge rotate around cuz at this point stove top is 450 then no fan will cause higher temps correct?

Highbeam said:

The guys with really tall flues that get strong draft even when it's very warm out are more able to utilize low burn rates in the warm weather.

Click to expand...

That's encouraging. I don't have a BK (yet) but it would go in a room with sloping ceilings and the stove sits in the tallest part of the room. Currently I have a single wall 6" pipe about 12' long that goes straight through the ceiling but it sounds like I should replace it with a double wall to maximize the draft potential if I install a Chinook 30?

WoodyIsGoody said:

That's encouraging. I don't have a BK (yet) but it would go in a room with sloping ceilings and the stove sits in the tallest part of the rood. Currently I have a single wall 6" pipe about 12' long that goes straight through the ceiling but it sounds like I should replace it with a double wall to maximize the draft potential if I install a Chinook 30?

Click to expand...

Yes, I would swap to double wall. I think most stoves recommend (or is that require) no more than 10' of single wall. Make sure you get at least 15' of total chimney from collar to cap!

I just brought home from my restaurnat a extra deep fryer basket, see if it helps me with moving around my coals so i can clean the stove easier. Ill take some pics to show if its good.

showrguy said:

High beam,
I've seen you post about calibrating the cat probe, per the manual..
I can't find anything like that..
Can you explain the procedure ?Or point me to it ?
Thanks..

Click to expand...

Here it is in my manual on Page 28:


THERMOMETER


The combustor thermometer tells you what was happening 4-8 minutes ago. And remember, it is only an

indication of the temperatures of the gasses, after they pass through the combustor. The thermometer probe,

the part that fits into the stove, must be cleaned at least once a year. Lift it from the stove (be careful, it may be

hot) and wipe or scrape it clean. At room temperature, away from the stove, the indicator should point near the

bottom of the “Inactive” zone. If, after several years use, you find that the needle no longer points to the bottom


of the “Inactive” zone when the thermometer has been at room temperature for 10 minutes or longer, it may


need adjustment. Holding the probe with a pair of pliers, loosen the bolt on the top of the dial. Turn the dial to


align the pointer with the bottom of the “Inactive” zone, then retighten the bolt.

Note: If your Blaze King is equipped with optional fans, turn off fans and wait 10 minutes prior to reading

catalytic thermometer indicator. Air movement across the top of the stove may provide false reading.

Niko said:

I just brought home from my restaurnat a extra deep fryer basket, see if it helps me with moving around my coals so i can clean the stove easier. Ill take some pics to show if its good.

Click to expand...

I'm so glad that I choose to use my ashpan! It's so easy to use, I don't understand why so many refuse to utilize it. Assuming you have one, I know some have the model without it.

Highbeam said:

Here it is in my manual on Page 28:


THERMOMETER


The combustor thermometer tells you what was happening 4-8 minutes ago. And remember, it is only an

indication of the temperatures of the gasses, after they pass through the combustor. The thermometer probe,

the part that fits into the stove, must be cleaned at least once a year. Lift it from the stove (be careful, it may be

hot) and wipe or scrape it clean. At room temperature, away from the stove, the indicator should point near the

bottom of the “Inactive” zone. If, after several years use, you find that the needle no longer points to the bottom


of the “Inactive” zone when the thermometer has been at room temperature for 10 minutes or longer, it may


need adjustment. Holding the probe with a pair of pliers, loosen the bolt on the top of the dial. Turn the dial to


align the pointer with the bottom of the “Inactive” zone, then retighten the bolt.

Note: If your Blaze King is equipped with optional fans, turn off fans and wait 10 minutes prior to reading

catalytic thermometer indicator. Air movement across the top of the stove may provide false reading.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I looked at my book again, it's not in mine..

showrguy said:

Thanks, I looked at my book again, it's not in mine..

Click to expand...

The manual I opened after a google search is the 2012 manual. Same year as my stove.

https://www.blazeking.com/PDF/manuals/old/OM-PE E V1.02.pdf

The new condar cat meter I just installed seems to be much slower to move into the active zone but I can still get it up to 1500 so I think my cat is quite alive.

webby3650 said:

I'm so glad that I choose to use my ashpan! It's so easy to use, I don't understand why so many refuse to utilize it. Assuming you have one, I know some have the model without it.

Click to expand...

I got tue ashpan, i also posted a mew thread check it out

Highbeam said:

The new condar cat meter I just installed seems to be much slower to move into the active zone but I can still get it up to 1500 so I think my cat is quite alive.

Click to expand...

I wonder about this, Highbeam. Seems to me, if you can hit 1100F, you're going to get clean reburn, non-cat style, whether there's any catalyst left on that substrate or not. I would think the true test is when you can maintain a clean plume at 500F cat probe temp, or really any temperature below 1000F.

Ashful said:

I wonder about this, Highbeam. Seems to me, if you can hit 1100F, you're going to get clean reburn, non-cat style, whether there's any catalyst left on that substrate or not. I would think the true test is when you can maintain a clean plume at 500F cat probe temp, or really any temperature below 1000F.

Click to expand...

With no secondary combustion air (oxygen)being fed, high temps alone may not be enough to combust the fuel. Like backdraft.

Highbeam said:

With no secondary combustion air (oxygen)being fed, high temps alone may not be enough to combust the fuel. Like backdraft.

Click to expand...

Which begs the question, if there is a lack of oxygen for more complete combustion, then exactly how does the catalyst change this fact?

I always assumed the window airwash air divided ,indistinctly, into two parts with some going directly to the cat and some going to the firebox. The entry point of the combustion air is very close to the cat. I suppose introducing smoke into the combustion air intake port could prove this as you would be able to view the actual firebox airflow from the window. Upon turndown, after the initial 20 minute load char, rolling secondary burn flames at the air entry point near the cat entry point show me a lot of the entering air does indeed go directly to the cat so the cat does have a source of combustion air. As a further assist, the air is preheated in the firebox supply tubes. Cold outside air would chill the cat.

Highbeam said:

The BK operated primarily as intended (low/medium output) makes creosote at a higher rate than a non-cat but not unreasonable, you can still make it through the season safely burning on low without sweeping if you do everything right. I would have thought that the cat stoves would have super clean flues but no, and low flue temps are the culprit I suspect. Those guys burning on high settings all the time should have cleaner flues.

Click to expand...

Mornin' Highbeam. My flues stay pretty damn clean. I can't make a cat/non-cat comparison, as I've never burned a non-cat stove (and probably never will), but I still suspect your dirty flue issue is not the norm around here. Every other case of gummed up chimney caps that I can recall in several years here, has come down to a wood quality issue. You're certain that's not the case for you, but I can say I'm doing 24 hour burns day after day on one of my stoves and the screen at the top of the chimney is showing zero build-up. In fact, other than being a little oxidized from the sun and weather, it looks pretty much as clean as the day I installed it in 2012. I sweep once per year, and really don't get much of anything out of either pipe.

Two stoves:

29 foot chimney running 12 hour burns for 5 months of the year, plus 24 hour burns in the shoulder seasons

15 foot chimney running 24 hour burns for 5 months of the year

webby3650 said:

I'm so glad that I choose to use my ashpan! It's so easy to use, I don't understand why so many refuse to utilize it. Assuming you have one, I know some have the model without it.

Click to expand...

I have two stoves with ash pans. Unfortunately BK did not locate the ash plug over the pan, so when I try to use mine, I end up with hot coals and embers on the floor under the stove.

As a result, I go from cursing BK for embers on the floor when I try to use the pan, to cursing BK for dust in the room when I try to use a shovel and bucket. I still haven't settled on a solution, but I'm hoping BK comes out with a fix for those of us that got stuck with this design mistake.

I find if I place an ash can right next to the stove and slowly scoop out the ashes and slowly pour/lay them into the bottom of the can, it makes less airborne ash than pouring the drawer's ashes into the ash can as it is less controllable. The ashes like to suddenly dump causing a lot of soot in the air. The draw of the chimney sucks most of the airborne stuff back into the stove. That is my take anyway. The drawer makes a nice bread warmer.

kf6hap said:

I find if I place an ash can right next to the stove and slowly scoop out the ashes and slowly pour/lay them into the bottom of the can, it makes less airborne ash than pouring the drawer's ashes into the ash can as it is less controllable. The ashes like to suddenly dump causing a lot of soot in the air. The draw of the chimney sucks most of the airborne stuff back into the stove. That is my take anyway. The drawer makes a nice bread warmer.

Click to expand...

I dump my ash pan into a large metal trash can outside. It does make a big plume of dust, but it's outside, and I can quickly lid the can to knock the dust down.

Ashful said:

Mornin' Highbeam. My flues stay pretty damn clean. I can't make a cat/non-cat comparison, as I've never burned a non-cat stove (and probably never will), but I still suspect your dirty flue issue is not the norm around here. Every other case of gummed up chimney caps that I can recall in several years here, has come down to a wood quality issue. You're certain that's not the case for you, but I can say I'm doing 24 hour burns day after day on one of my stoves and the screen at the top of the chimney is showing zero build-up. In fact, other than being a little oxidized from the sun and weather, it looks pretty much as clean as the day I installed it in 2012. I sweep once per year, and really don't get much of anything out of either pipe.

Two stoves:

29 foot chimney running 12 hour burns for 5 months of the year, plus 24 hour burns in the shoulder seasons

15 foot chimney running 24 hour burns for 5 months of the year

Click to expand...

You've got to remember that I'm burning low btu softwood at a much much lower burn rate than you. Maybe the smoke is more resinous, some firewood charts call high smoke levels to be a defect of coniferous wood. When my firebox full of low btu wood lasts just as long as your firebox full of 2x higher btu wood that means that my burn rate is half. Sure, my cat is doing what it can but that's not enough for a clean flue. Really though, a dirty BK flue IS the norm, not sure why you think it is rare.

Non-cats, when burned properly IME, burn much cleaner due to several factors. High flue temps, lots of dilution air, no smoldering, no visible smoke. Heck, even the gph emissions rate of my non-cat is lower than that of my princess.

Tested per the directions with my schnazzy new BK moisture meter I get under 14% which I'm more than happy with. Even with Moisture content to 20% I would expect the same results. The new BK manuals give pretty good wood testing instructions. I'm three years ahead with fast seasoning wood.

I don't have a problem to fix but most of us have become aware that BKs run low/medium will be making black flue deposits at an above average rate.

WoodyIsGoody said:

Which begs the question, if there is a lack of oxygen for more complete combustion, then exactly how does the catalyst change this fact?

Click to expand...

That's the magic. I took some chemistry classes long ago and a catalyst does some pretty cool stuff. There is oxygen locked up in some of the nasty byproducts of wood combustion. If you can separate the Oxygen out it provides oxygen for the combustion process. There are a bunch of weird oxygen containing compounds in smoke that are a source of oxygen once they are broken down by the catalyst. The catalyst doesn't make the elements disappear, it just converts them. Nitrogen for example goes through the cat and also comes out liberated from some of the oxygen molecules it had when it was a NOX pollutant in the firebox.

There is no separate air feed for the BK cat. Other brands have used an air feed for the cat, actually most every other brand does and has. I'm sure that some of the unused combustion air may make its way up to the cat but even preheated intake air is so much colder and denser than the smoke stream that it would pour into the firebox like water and head right to the coals.

It is not as simple as the condar or applied ceramics powerpoint slide that shows smoke and pollution entering the cat and only water and co2 heading out. There are other compounds expelled as well. The active cat does a pretty amazing job of reducing them though.

Maybe a more chemistry minded person can give specifics.

Highbeam said:

The new condar cat meter I just installed seems to be much slower to move into the active zone but I can still get it up to 1500 so I think my cat is quite alive.

Click to expand...

I have noticed the same thing with my Condar probe. It moves much slower in general, but I feel like it is more accurate. Even the new BK probe will bury the need past the active zone while the Condar says 1300-1350.

Highbeam said:

That's the magic. I took some chemistry classes long ago and a catalyst does some pretty cool stuff. There is oxygen locked up in some of the nasty byproducts of wood combustion. If you can separate the Oxygen out it provides oxygen for the combustion process. There are a bunch of weird oxygen containing compounds in smoke that are a source of oxygen once they are broken down by the catalyst. The catalyst doesn't make the elements disappear, it just converts them. Nitrogen for example goes through the cat and also comes out liberated from some of the oxygen molecules it had when it was a NOX pollutant in the firebox.

There is no separate air feed for the BK cat. Other brands have used an air feed for the cat, actually most every other brand does and has. I'm sure that some of the unused combustion air may make its way up to the cat but even preheated intake air is so much colder and denser than the smoke stream that it would pour into the firebox like water and head right to the coals.

It is not as simple as the condar or applied ceramics powerpoint slide that shows smoke and pollution entering the cat and only water and co2 heading out. There are other compounds expelled as well. The active cat does a pretty amazing job of reducing them though.

Maybe a more chemistry minded person can give specifics.

Click to expand...

Actually, I think you gave an excellent explanation.

begreen said:

There are cases reported every year of gummed up chimneys that are not the wood. The issue in those cases typically are too much heat loss in the single-wall connector due to a long run or notably long horiz. section, heat loss in a very tall exterior chimney, air leakage into the flue system (cleanout door leaking, poor flue collar seal, etc.), and user operation, running the stove at a low flue temp for a long period of time.

Click to expand...

Good point. I over-stated my case, but it doesn't change the spirit of what I was saying: gummed up chimneys are not the normal operating state of a BK. Highbeam also makes a good point, his softwoods do result in lower exhaust temperatures than anything I'm burning, and possibly more particulate matter on top of that.

High beam, I did the rezero thing with my CAT probe...
After checking with a real therometer, I have no clue where this thing reads..

showrguy said:

High beam, I did the rezero thing with my CAT probe...
After checking with a real therometer, I have no clue where this thing reads..

Click to expand...

All you can do is calibrate per the book. If we believe the manufacturer, the active/inactive line marks 500 degree cat temp with a 4-8 minute delay. You can't check the calibration with something like an IR meter or a surface meter. This is one of those times that you have no choice but to trust your gauges. Then look to see that the cat is glowing and/or emissions are reduced. When you engage the cat the cat meter should begin to rise.

My Auber digital should be here soon..