Hearthstone Morgan: removable baffle?

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SaratogaJJ

New Member
Oct 31, 2008
53
Saratoga Springs, NY
I just had my chimney swept this morning, and I am attempting to achieve some clarity and peace-of-mind. The chimney sweep came recommended by a relative, who has had a business relationship with the sweep for about 10 years. This fellow also has clearly been sweeping chimneys for some time; I'm sure he didn't just start up his business last month. This is the first time the chimney has been swept since my stove was installed last spring.

I have a Hearthstone Morgan. From reading here, typically, you remove the baffle and secondary burn tubes, go up to the roof, and use the brush; all the built-up material slides right down the liner and into the firebox of the stove for easy cleaning. Reassemble the burn tubes and baffle, reinstall into the stove, and Bob's your uncle.

However, after about 30 minutes of brushing and then vacuuming, the sweep called me into the living room, to show me what he had done: he maintains that on Hearthstone stoves (and some Jotuls, he also said), the baffle and tubes are not removable. Accordingly, he had sawn/drilled a hole, about three inches in diameter, through the baffle between the middle and rear-most secondary burn tubes. Had he not done so, he says, the material swept down the liner would have just come to rest on the top surface of the baffle, where it would be impossible to reach with the vacuum.

He says he will be returning with a piece of identical baffle material, which he will slide up onto the top surface of the existing baffle, thus covering up the hole he created, and restoring the function of the baffle, which is to keep heat inside the wood stove rather than letting it go up the chimney. He also states that this will make subsequent cleanings easier; remove the 'replacement' baffle piece, sweep everything down through the hole in the original baffle, vacuum, then replace the 'replacement' baffle.

Now, setting aside for the moment that he was cutting holes in my stove before either asking me or explaining it to me why it was necessary, which is obviously more than a little annoying, does he know what he is talking about; i.e., are the baffle and tubes in a Hearthstone Morgan removable?

If they are not removable, was his solution appropriate? Or was the correct solution to remove the entire stove unit, and clean everything the old-fashioned way?

Thanks for any and all answers.
 
Sounds like an absolute abomination. Hearthstone baffles remove easily - almost without exception. pull it forward a touch, push the back up, and then tilt it down to lower the front and remove it from between the front and middle tubes. The tubes themselves are a pain to remove and replace.

A quick google search found this:
http://woodheatstoves.com/morgan-wood-stove-insert-p-369.html

includes the following statement:
"...secondary air baffle removes easily making the liner installation and cleaning more trouble free than many units..."

Get your sweep to buy you a new baffle. No if's, and's, or but's. And YOU should probably do the "easy removal" yourself, just to show him. No arguing w/ the truth.
 

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Ed, many thanks. I was intending to dig out the manual when I got home this evening, but this place is such a helpful resource and I knew I'd get confirmation of my suspicion.

I'm not looking forward to having to deal with this when the sweep comes back, but now that I know it's in the manual, I have a much better leg to stand on.
 
I betcha that the sweep broke a hole in your baffle with the leading point of his brush and is trying to cover up his stupidity. Otherwise he should have asked before destroying your baffle.

He should have started by popping out the baffle and then sweeping into the stove as I do with my hearthstone. He missed that step. Then replace the baffle when done and vacuum the swept creosote.

And no, his replacement idea is a no-go. He needs to replace the baffle board which should cost under 100$.
 
once again, another junk baffle in an expensive stove...
 
summit - I assume you mean the design, not this one particular trashed baffle?

Not going to get into a philosophical design argument with ya, but I'd wager this baffle, if left unmolested, has the same lifespan as any other. high-temp ceramics are a fine material for this type of application... sweeps who either accidentally or intentionally destroy them - that's another issue.
 
Edthedawg said:
summit - I assume you mean the design, not this one particular trashed baffle?

Not going to get into a philosophical design argument with ya, but I'd wager this baffle, if left unmolested, has the same lifespan as any other. high-temp ceramics are a fine material for this type of application... sweeps who either accidentally or intentionally destroy them - that's another issue.

yes, try leaving any stove baffle unmolested... read the intro statement in the owners manual about the baffle... it'l tell you everything you need to know... basically says dont not load up your stove 2 the top
 
UPDATE:

Before I begin, thank you all for the help. It was much appreciated.

Armed with the page from the manual, my girlfriend and I were able to successfully remove the baffle & burn tubes, with a minimal amount of futzing around - took us maybe 15 minutes of jiggling it about.

We called the sweep, and he told my girlfriend, contrary to what he told me, that he "knew" you could take the baffle out on Hearthstones, but cutting a hole in the baffle is "the way he works" because sometimes the bolts seize up or break and render it difficult to remove. WTF.

Needless to say, we told him we would be ordering a replacement baffle from the local distributor, and we will expect him to pay the bill. Also, we obviously won't be doing business with him again, and will be informing the relative who referred him about our less-than-optimal experience with this guy. I have also posted a negative review on Google, FWIW.
 
I'll be curious to see if he ponies up the $$ to pay for the baffle or not. betting he'll dig his heels in and not pay. probably won't give a hoot about negative ratings, your future biz, etc. But word of mouth is a powerful thing sometimes... Good luck to you on this one!
 
Did you happen to pay for the sweeping with your credit card? Stop payment.

The guy is a putz. There are no bolts to remove, seize up, or break off. The baffle just sets there and is designed to be removed for service. It took him longer to drill the hole and suck the creosote out through the hole than it would have to walk that baffle out. I think you and your GF will agree that while the first time took 15 minutes, you could have that sucker out in 2 minutes next time.
 
Edthedawg said:
Sounds like an absolute abomination. Hearthstone baffles remove easily - almost without exception. pull it forward a touch, push the back up, and then tilt it down to lower the front and remove it from between the front and middle tubes. The tubes themselves are a pain to remove and replace.

A quick google search found this:
http://woodheatstoves.com/morgan-wood-stove-insert-p-369.html

includes the following statement:
"...secondary air baffle removes easily making the liner installation and cleaning more trouble free than many units..."

Get your sweep to buy you a new baffle. No if's, and's, or but's. And YOU should probably do the "easy removal" yourself, just to show him. No arguing w/ the truth.

I agree, what kind of sweep would cut your ceraboard...wow!

btw, thanks Edthedawg for linking to my site!
 
Don't thank me, thank google. your site came up first. :)

(fwiw, when i went to post the link to the manual .pdf (2nd post above) from your site, hearth.com threw a "blacklisted object" error. so i found a different link for that same thing...
 
Edthedawg said:
Don't thank me, thank google. your site came up first. :)

(fwiw, when i went to post the link to the manual .pdf (2nd post above) from your site, hearth.com threw a "blacklisted object" error. so i found a different link for that same thing...



lol, lets see if i can post a manual from my own site :)
answer no, but it's there, and works fine


mods/ webmaster- why are free pdf's from our site blocked?? any clue?
 
OK, so I have a brand new "Homestead" and find no such instructions in my owners manual. Looking in the stove, it "looks" like the thing won't come out.. is this correct? Or am I just not picking up on how to do it? I have pushed on it and tried to wiggle it, no movement as far as I can tell.
 
no, the baffle comes out!
but for the life of me i cant find any info in any any of the the hs pdf tech manuals,( i have them all!)

i never sold too many homesteads so i dont know personally

try jim casavant at hearthstone
800) 827-8603 ext. 225 Jim Casavant Customer Tech Support Manager [email protected]

my guess based on other hs models is...
remove the cotter pins holding in the air tubes, then the baffel board will come out.

is this a freestanding or hearthmount?
might be easier to just pull the stack off the top and vac thru the flue collar....
 
Right now it's a stand against the wall waiting for parts mount. My dealer seems to be having some trouble getting in the heat shield and blower kit.. But it will be a hearth mount, although I am building the hearth up to replace the POS contractor fire place the house was built with. I don't think vacuming from above is going to work, due to how we are installing. There are cotter keys in there, my guess was that they just held the air tubes, I will try removing them and seeing if that allows the baffle to move.
 
JJ who was the sweep? I live in the area and need to know who to not call. PM me if necessary.
 
On my Hearthstone heritage, there are three cotter pins near the baffle. One holds the little SS deflector bracket to the front tube and the other two pins run through the baffle and through the center air tube to hold the baffle in place. I thought that newer models had done away with the cotter pins in favor of SS wire but regardless, those cotter pins do not hold the air tubes in place. The air tubes are solid and are used to hold the baffle in place by way of the cotter pins.

Thanks Dave for making Jim's information so findable. I have been in contact with him in the past and think he is very helpful.
 
Highbeam said:
On my Hearthstone heritage, there are three cotter pins near the baffle. One holds the little SS deflector bracket to the front tube and the other two pins run through the baffle and through the center air tube to hold the baffle in place. I thought that newer models had done away with the cotter pins in favor of SS wire but regardless, those cotter pins do not hold the air tubes in place. The air tubes are solid and are used to hold the baffle in place by way of the cotter pins.

Thanks Dave for making Jim's information so findable. I have been in contact with him in the past and think he is very helpful.

well.... I pulled my cotter pins out and that released the air tubes. I now have 3 air tubes on the floor, and a little spacer, and two cotter pins, but that baffle has not/will not move(d).
 
Dakotas Dad said:
Highbeam said:
On my Hearthstone heritage, there are three cotter pins near the baffle. One holds the little SS deflector bracket to the front tube and the other two pins run through the baffle and through the center air tube to hold the baffle in place. I thought that newer models had done away with the cotter pins in favor of SS wire but regardless, those cotter pins do not hold the air tubes in place. The air tubes are solid and are used to hold the baffle in place by way of the cotter pins.

Thanks Dave for making Jim's information so findable. I have been in contact with him in the past and think he is very helpful.

well.... I pulled my cotter pins out and that released the air tubes. I now have 3 air tubes on the floor, and a little spacer, and two cotter pins, but that baffle has not/will not move(d).

A few years ago I had a Homestead and had a heck of a time removing my baffle. I ended up leaving mine in place and vacuumed from the exhaust collar. I think there may be some excess mortar from production holding it and you may have scrape around the edge with a putty knife and gently push it upwards. Those baffles are pretty fragile so be careful.
 
[
A few years ago I had a Homestead and had a heck of a time removing my baffle. I ended up leaving mine in place and vacuumed from the exhaust collar. I think there may be some excess mortar from production holding it and you may have scrape around the edge with a putty knife and gently push it upwards. Those baffles are pretty fragile so be careful.[/quote]


the official word from the tech at hearthstone to replace the baffle in the homestead: either you diassasemble the stove top (stones and all) and get it from the top, or the preferred method for quickness and ease.... (check this out) take a razor and slice the new baffle in half on the diaganal and install it in two pieces. QUALITYSTUFF. :grrr: :exclaim:
 
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