Brand new to the wood burning world

Crash11 said:

Ok what exactly is the difference between flue and chimney? I think of things in terms of inlet and outlet.

The chimney is the outside part, the flue is what's inside.

gyrfalcon said:

You can't have an "air leak" in a modern airtight stove, so you're not losing heat from the house up the flue of a cold stove. That can be a problem with open fireplaces, but it's physically impossible with a stove. Vast quantities of room air aren't forcing themselves through your little primary air control and up the cold flue.

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If it's airtight, how does air get into the box when I'm burning wood? I'm not asking that in a sarcastic way. I'm just trying to understand the flow of air through the stove.

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Good question, and I'm honestly not sure where the primary air comes from, I assume somewhere along the bottom or back of the stove, but it probably depends on the model. You've never said what stove you have. In any case, even when the primary air is wide open and the stove is cold, it's nowhere near large enough to cause heat loss from your home.

Here's the way I do it. Easy and it works for me every time.:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9812/

Welcome to the sickness :cheese:

Crash11 said:

I thought of some more questions......

My stove never came with a grate. Is it necessary to have one? I know I need to let the wood breath inside which is what I do by laying the logs in such a way to create large gaps on the bottom.

I'm realizing the "damper" on my stove is only adjusting the inlet air gap, but I have no way to adjust the outlet. Do most people install a damper on the chimney? I'm just wondering because I only burn in the evenings, so when I don't have a fire going I'm probably creating a large air leak right?

Where is the best place to put a thermometer on the stove to watch burn temp? I've heard on the top of the stove and I've heard on the chimney pipe close to the top of the stove. I'm thinking on the chimney pipe is better, but even then......with double wall pipe, how much can I trust this temperature reading?

Last one, I'm just about out of wood for the season, and the weather is getting better. So pretty soon here I'll be heading up on the roof to do a clean up. My triple wall section of chimney consists of a 2' piece on top of a 3' piece going straight through the roof. I plan on removing the 2' piece from the top with the cap and bringing it down into the garage to clean it out real good. While I have that piece off the top I'm considering hiring someone to do a cleaning of the rest of the chimney. My question is, what am I asking them to do? And who do I call?

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Somehow I missed seeing your follow up reply until this morning and since you haven't got a whole lot of replies to your questions I'll give you whatever advice I can . . . but this information is limited since I by no means consider myself a veteran woodburner.

Grates: Unless your woodstove specifically comes or came with grates I would skip 'em. I believe most folks would tell you that while you want the wood to be stacked relatively loosely when you're getting the fire going from a cold start (for better air flow) once you've got the fire up and running it's not quite as crucial to have the wood be loosely stacked (and in fact the wood whether in rounds or splits should form their own natural "air pockets" when you place them on the hot coals unless you have perfectly square or rectangular-shaped wood . . . and to add to this . . . most folks suggest packing the wood as tightly as possible and as full as possible when you're doing the final loading for an overnight burn as it will make the fire burn more slowly.)

Now as for starting the fire . . . while air gaps are good, having a grate that lifts the wood off the floor of the firebox isn't all that necessary (although the Jotul has some floor grates that do not raise the wood up off the floor, but rather allow the ash to fall down into the ash pan.) I do however losely stack my wood . . . I tend to go with the traditional fire starting method vs. the top down method (just works for me better and it's a personal preference) . . . which means smaller pieces on bottom, followed my medium sized pieces and one or two large pieces -- all stacked loosely (sometimes in a Lincoln Log fashion . . . . usually depending on the size of the wood.)

Damper: Chimney dampers in general were widely used in the old days, but today most folks tend to not install them unless they have a chimney that is over-drafting ... typically such a chimney is rather long in length. You can use your air control on your stove to control the air flow . . . and while this is in fact controlling the air flow into the stove in a way it also controls the air flow out of the stove (i.e. if you open the air control all the way to full open you are getting a lot of air into the firebox . . . but conversely a lot of the now heated air from the fire is also going right up the flue vs. closing down the airflow and restricting the air flow both into and out of the stove/flue.)

As for your question about losing a lot of heat . . . I suppose it's possible that you may be losing some heat as the heated air in your home works its way through the stove and through the firebox and then through the flue . . . but bear in mind that hot air rises and cold air falls so I believe that what little air is finding its way through to the stove and up through the chimney is cooler rather than warmer so I am guessing that the heat loss would be minimal . . . probably not much more than what is lost through kitchen vents and bathroom vents which typically have exterior flappers but are located higher up . . . maybe someone more experienced in heat loss/insulation/HVAC could weigh in here and dispute or support this idea of mine.

Disco Inferno: Thermometers . . . I love 'em and I firmly believe that while you may not absolutely, positively need one (or more) to burn wood they certainly can help you burn better and more efficiently . . . even when they're not 100% accurate and calibrated. First and foremost, check your owner's manual to see if they recommend a placement location -- my Jotul for example specifically mentioned placing one in any of the four stove top corners . . . which I did. This is useful since Jotul recommends 400-600 as the ideal operating stove top temps . . . and useful to let me know if I'm heading towards over-firing situations.

Later I purchased a thermometer for my stove pipe . . . something I highly recommend since this lets me know what temps my flue are running at which are good to give you an idea if your temps are too cool (producing creosote) or too hot (which can cause the creosote in the chimney to ignite). I have found that using this thermometer in conjunction with the stove top thermometer allows me to know when is a good time to start shutting down my primary air. As for placement . . . most recommend 18 inches above the flue collar . . . and with a double wall stove pipe such as yours and mine you will need a probe-style thermometer which requires drilling the pipe. TBC

Crash11 said:

I thought of some more questions......

My stove never came with a grate. Is it necessary to have one? I know I need to let the wood breath inside which is what I do by laying the logs in such a way to create large gaps on the bottom.

I'm realizing the "damper" on my stove is only adjusting the inlet air gap, but I have no way to adjust the outlet. Do most people install a damper on the chimney? I'm just wondering because I only burn in the evenings, so when I don't have a fire going I'm probably creating a large air leak right?

Where is the best place to put a thermometer on the stove to watch burn temp? I've heard on the top of the stove and I've heard on the chimney pipe close to the top of the stove. I'm thinking on the chimney pipe is better, but even then......with double wall pipe, how much can I trust this temperature reading?

Last one, I'm just about out of wood for the season, and the weather is getting better. So pretty soon here I'll be heading up on the roof to do a clean up. My triple wall section of chimney consists of a 2' piece on top of a 3' piece going straight through the roof. I plan on removing the 2' piece from the top with the cap and bringing it down into the garage to clean it out real good. While I have that piece off the top I'm considering hiring someone to do a cleaning of the rest of the chimney. My question is, what am I asking them to do? And who do I call?

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Post continued . . .

Can you trust the temps? Sure . . . just remember that the temps are relative and thermometers made for stoves aren't known for being super accurate so don't attempt to bake cookies in the stove or take your temperature with one to see if you've got a fever . . . they're better as a gauge to know you're running too cool or to know that you're heading towards too hot temps. And as you noted . . . on double wall pipe you really need a probe style thermometer vs. a magnetic thermometer to know what the temps are inside the flue.

Who ya gonna call? Not Ghostbusters: If you're up on the roof you have a few choices . . . a) if you want you can prep the chimney for the sweep and make their life just a bit easier, b) you can purchase your own chimney brush and rods and do the job while you're there, c) you can simply inspect the chimney to see how things went in the first few months of burning or d) you can freak out your kids by clomping around up there, rapping on the chimney a few times and then when you come down you can claim that it wasn't you on the roof, but Santa (or as an alternative you can claim it was some drunken Vermonter stuck in your chimney who has no idea how he ended up there (see one of my older posts).

In all seriousness, if you're going up to the roof I would either just check things out and then either buy the equipment and sweep my own chimney (it's really quite simple . . . probably the worse part for most folks is getting on the roof in icy or windy conditions) or I would just check the chimney and call the sweep who will do the entire chimney (including the cap) for a set price. You can find sweeps in the Yellow Pages, ask your friends/neighbors or ask the local fire department-- oftentimes they know of a sweep, they will do free/free for a donation sweep (not inspected though) or they have guys working a second job as a sweep. I believe most sweeps would do a top to bottom cleaning of the chimney . . . but if in doubt ask them for the price and what that price includes for work done. Most sweeps would not expect you to have already cleaned a portion of the chimney or cap -- that's something they would do for you and is typically included in the price.

Crash11 said:

When you clean out you own chimney do you simply run a brush up and down a bunch of times to knock all the creosote down to the bottom, and then let it burn off in the next fire? Or do you brush it all to the bottom and vacuum it out?

I have no problem going on the roof and running a brush up and down, but what about my offset? Will those brush handle extenders make that kind of turn? Also, I used all rigid pipe all the way down, so removing my pipe from the stove is going to be a real chore.

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I'm a little different from some folks . . . well my wife would say I'm a lot different from some folks.

I have a T-connection and an outside insulated SS chimney so all I have to do to do the bulk of the cleaning is take off my T's end cap and then run the brush straight up . . . slowly spinning and pushing/pulling the brush as I push it upwards . . . and then at the top I do a little spin and tap action to knock off most of the creosote that has built up on the underside of the cap. The creosote simply falls down on to the ground . . . and since there isn't much of it I don't bother to clean it up -- I just wait until the next snow storm to cover up the mess. Later this Spring I will be breaking down the pipe inside for a thorough cleaning, but right now from what I can see and feel there isn't much of a build up to worry about.

Maybe some other folks can chime in here with some advice for you in regards to the offset.

I have a question regarding the Jotul f600 if anybody knows the answer...
I want to clean the flue, and I am not sure how frequently I should be cleaning the top of the stove and baffle area. I have seen some reference to it here, but any info would help. Thanks in advance.

REDIT: I just noticed the time lag in this thread....

Crash11 said:

Hey guys,

Great forum here. I'm glad I found it. Just recently (about 1 month ago) I installed a small woodstove in my living room. It has two functions.........look nice and help my geothermal system keep my house reasonably warm in the winter. I ran into trouble with using ONLY my geothermal because the capacity wasn't quite good enough, but I always knew I wanted a woodstove anyway. So anyway I'm trying to learn everything I can about wood burning. If you have any generic tips or advice please feel free. Some questions I have:

1 - What have you guys found to be the easiest way to get a fire going from scratch? I've been stuck basically using paper to try to get some pieces of pallets started, but it's been rough.

2 - Does that powder really work to keep creosote away? I've seen some on ebay that advertises if you put a spoonful on a hot fire about once a week or so, it'll eliminate creosote. What about the sweeping logs? Do those work?

3 - My dad told me he had once heard of some product that you can throw into a fire to choke away all of the oxygen and put it out immediately. Anybody know what it's called or if I should even bother with it? I'm planning on buying a fire extinguisher to keep in the kitchen as well.

4 - This spring I plan to start collecting my own wood for next winter (I had to buy a face cord for this winter). How do you know when wood is too old to use?

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Holy dug up threads, Batman.

1) I make kindling then hit it with my MAPP gas torch.

2) No idea. Burn dry wood and you shouldn't need it.

3) Sand, baking soda, anything inert. I wouldn't bother.

4) The key to amassing firewood is to start collecting wood right now, today, and keep collecting it all the time. There's no such thing as wood that is "too old" to burn. It's pretty obvious when wood is rotten or decayed and this has less to do with it's age than how dry it was kept after felling.

These threads are similar to "old wood" they never go bad, and the info keeps getting better....

Chez said:

These threads are similar to "old wood" they never go bad, and the info keeps getting better....

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That advice (mine) was solid gold.

weezer4117 said:

welcome to the forum!! whenever you burn wood and vent in a enclosed area you will ALWAYS have creosote!! there are several products out there that say they will help control buildup on chimney walls, i have had luck with the logs.

one thing that i do to help get a fire started is take a empty toilet paper core and pack it FULL of dryer lent, pack as much as you can inside and put under your kindling. works pretty good.

i have not heard or seen a powder that will put out a fire. however, i keep a road flare close by incase of a chimney fire. i have been told that in the event of a chimney fire throw a road flare inside and shut off primary air. (throw the whole thing inside the firebox, no need to stike it) i have never had to do this but have been told by reliable sources that this will take all of the oxygen out of the stove and chimney, killing the flame. of course its a good idea to have a extinguisher on hand also!!

hope this helps some

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A wet dish towel will do the same thing.

Chez said:

I have a question regarding the Jotul f600 if anybody knows the answer...
I want to clean the flue, and I am not sure how frequently I should be cleaning the top of the stove and baffle area. I have seen some reference to it here, but any info would help. Thanks in advance.

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Well, since this is a new question in an old post . . .

I just cleaned above the baffle . . . there was some fine ash, but no creosote. I may be going out on a limb here, but I suspect you would be OK doing this once a year.