Help wood stove/chimney poor draft after 15 years

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Hunstman

New Member
Dec 31, 2009
8
Central VA
I have an Atlanta stove works Huntsman wood stove in the basement, connected through the block wall to Metalbestos Air cooled triple wall pipe, in a chase. The total height is about 15 feet. It meets the 3’ 2x10 rule.

The stove and chimney have been checked, and there is no blockage.

The fire does not pull like it should, it worked fine last year. When a fire burns with the air inlets open it will smolder and when the door is opened smoke backs into the house.

I am doing the same thing I have done for 15 years. I have had it looked at by 2 chimney services and they indicate a back draft problem, most likely caused by the increase of tree height over the last 15 years and recommended a Vaccustack. I did this and it did not help. ½ of some others I have talked to indicate a possible stove problem, and the other ½ indicate a possible chimney problem.

The bottom line I am getting from the installers is to try a new stove, if that does not work, then replace the chimney.

Any ideas on how to further try to determine the problem/cause will be greatly appreciated.
 
Not much can happen to a stove like that that would cause it to burn bad. Vacustacks work "sometimes" on wind induced down drafts. Have you made ANY changes or improvements in the house over the past couple of years?
 
An air cooled flue that is only 15 feet with 90 degree bends is marginal at best and I'm surprised you got by with it for 15 years! That said, I would look at the house to have provided the last straw that broke the camel's back. Something must have changed to cause stack effect where the house now out-drafts the flue. Did you install new whirlybird vents or damage the seal on an attic hatch? Plugged up HRV intake? Stuck damper on bathroom or kitchen exhaust?
 
Those are great solutions! Did you change the wood. Make sure its <20% moisture content.
 
If the stove has not popped a weld or dropped an interior piece in the smoke path, then the first suspect would be the wood. If you split it in half and press the fresh surface against your cheek is it cool and damp?

If the wood is 100% good, then has there been any changes in the house and/or basement in the past year that would affect draft? This could include insulation and caulking, a new attic vent, a new appliance like a dryer, a new bath or kitchen fan, etc.

Also, go outside and make sure the cleanout tee bottom cap is on tightly and sealing well.
 
Also make sure vents are not running (stove vents; vent in bathroom), driers not running, etc. while getting the stove going.

Naturally with the stove working for this long and to just start going bad this year, my first thought was something has changed in the house. Stove good; chimney good, then if nothing changed in house it has to be the wood.

As for the trees being higher, we live right in the woods and our chimney is not as high as yours and we do not have the chimney in a chase. It is simple SS running up the side of the house. Draft is fine. So I doubt it is the fault of the trees.
 
We did get a new dryer and replaced a vent fan, but this happens when nothing is running.

One thing I did notice yesterday, is I am getting downdraft from the chimney. The stove has not been used for a while, and when I open the air inlet on the front and put a match in front of it it blows out. I never noticed this before because I never did it. Is this normal?

I have always nedded to clear the the flue before lighting a fire, but assumed the cold air was sitting in the chimney, not really blowing back down so hard. I thought once the cold air was removed the heat would continue to draft.
 
The dryer and/or vent fan could be letting air out constantly even if they're not running. Try the smoke pencil test on them.
 
Ya, you definitely have some air leaking from somewhere in the house as you should definitely be opening the draft before opening the firebox door; this should increase the draft and not reverse it.
 
If possible, I'd add another 2-4' of pipe at the top. It could put an end to the issue once and for all. I'd also change out the 90° elbow connection to a 45 with a short connector and then another 45 attached to the chimney connector. Softening that 90° angle can assist draft.

We did get a new dryer and replaced a vent fan, but this happens when nothing is running.

Is there a gas boiler or HW heater in this space? Check to see if that is running also.
 
Update, I agree something has had to change, but I can not find any leakage. Maybe it was marginal to begin with and the addition of the trees getting bigger, basment finished, Radon system, new dryer, new vent system for central AC/heat vent unit, and house getting older ALL contributed to the final failure? I shut as much down as was possible to test, but with no luck.

I added 4 feet of Black stove pipe as a test, and it did seem to draft much better. without it there is definatley a down draft!

The problem is They do not make triple wall air insulated pipe anymore, and I have been told i can not add insulated pipe to air pipe. In addition the pipe is enclosed in a chase.

the only other solution, not an easy or cheap one is to add a draft fan at the top of the pipe. Has any one had any experience with this option?

Thanks for all the advise.
 
Hi...Dont mean to hijack the thread - but have a similar issue. My regency i2400 is in the living room down stairs. At times we're getting smoke in the basement. My guess is that the furnace vent (excuse my ignorance with terminology) shares room in the chimney and since the furnace is running less - there's a down draft there and the smoke is coming up thru the chimney is getting sucked back down into the basement. I do have a chimney insert for the stove as well. Does that make sense? Are there other theories? I do know i have some wood that is not as seasoned as it should be - mixed in with good wood. Any help / comments would be appreciated.

Thanks...
Joe
 
Joe, do both flues terminate at the same height up on the roof?
 
Granite Stater said:
Hunstman said:
... Radon system....

Have you eliminated this as the root cause? I would turn it off and see if you still get reverse draft.

That's a continuously running fan taking a suction from somewhere inside the envelope of the home (or from the gravel bed beneath a slab), and discharging to atmosphere. When was it installed? Where does it take a suction? I agree with GS to shut it off for a while and see if that makes any difference. Rick
 
Sorry...i'm a little slow. When you say turn what it off? Are you referring to the furnace? If that's the case - the furnace pretty much only runs for hot water - our basement is pretty cold these days. And yes - they're at the same height on the roof. Right now the stove is off. I am willing to bet that tonite when i start the stove - i'll have smoke in the basement. Note - in the basement - there is an old stove hooked up down there. We dont use it and it came with the house. could that hook up be an issue? Thanks for your help.
 
Man saw that radon statement, but the rest of you were faster on the keys. Shut down the radon unit should resolve a large portion of your draft problem. likely is the cause for the smoke in basement issue also.
 
The sub-floor ventilation fan in your Radon Mitigation installation creates a negative pressure condition beneath your home as you know. With frost in the ground around the foundation the system will begin drawing more air from your basement through any gaps in the floor, sump hole, etc., and your flue, if the house is well weatherized. Your stove/flue system is competing with this stack effect and losing, I suspect. Check with your Radon installer to see how to disable the fan temporarily, if it is not switched it will have a circuit breaker that can be thrown to shut it down. If this is the problem, then you have a Catch 22 situation between burning wood and running Radon mitigation. You may have to take measures to make your basemant slab as air-tight as possible to reduce the stack coefficient created by sub-floor venting.

Was your furnace modified in any way to prevent back flow of exhaust when the Radon system was installed?
 
UPdate2

This has been driving me crazy, the coldest winter in 15 years and I can't burn my wood stove.

When I added 4 feet of black pipe to see if the increased hieght helped, it seemed to at first, but back to square 1 soon after the fire was light. The Radon system I have installed has been for 7 years, no problems until now.

After talking to a very knowledgeable gentelman from this board about the the backdraft/negative pressure situation I am one again leaning to the wood stove as the problem, not the flu. I have turned everything off, opend doors and windows and none of this works. This seems to indicate there is not negative pressure. I checked the top secondary burn chamber and made sure it is clean/clear, again and it is. The flu will draft at first when I light paper to clear the cold air, but I can not keep a fire lit.

I used a Surefire light in side the stove and discovered a slight breach in the system where the secondary chamber sits on top of the stove. I have never seen any smoke leak from it but I can see light coming through. The only thing i can figure is there is enough of a leak that causes the system to not be tight and draft like it should. I am going to try to get some wood stove cement and seal it and see if that helps.

any more ideas let me know, I am willing to try anything.
 
Sounds like you may be on the right track. Something is disturbing or interrupting the smoke path.
 
Update3

I sealed the small are where the possible leak was. I am not sure if it was my imagination, but the stove seemed to light/burn better, for a little while, then it started to die out again!

Its hard to believe the stove started leaking that bad over the summer, to the point where it won't draw, but no visible leaks.

Back to square 1, can't keep a fire burning. The only options I see at this point are:

1 Try a fan on the top
2 Try a Draw Collar
3 try a new stove, if that does not help
4 try a new chimney

Does anyone have any experience with either the fans on top of the chimney or the draw collar? Since this worked for so long either fix kinda sound like a bandid fix, but??

Options 3-4 are the most expensive, and 4 is also a lot of work! Not sure if it is Worth it?

At this point I really don't know what to try. The other thought was to wait until warmer weather, take the stove outside and use black pipe to connect a chimney of the same specs as the one I have. If it burns properly that would indicate a chimney draft problem, if not a stove problem??

As always any other advise

Thanks
 
Update 4

I sealed every seam on the stove and tried to light a fire again tonight. Same results.

In any case I am no longer able to use the wood stove. I just can't imagine the stove is still leaking so bad after I sealed it to prevent the system from drafting. I am really starting to think the problem is with the chimney. I do notice a pretty strong down draft, and it is harder to clear the flue than I ever remember, so down draft or negative pressure may be an issue. It is just hard to believe the system worked as well as it did for over 15 years, then all of a sudden it does not work at all.

I have T with a clean out on the bottom where the thimbel goes through the wall block wall in the basement. I can not get to it because it is enclosed in a chase, but I can tell it is still on, I am just not sure if it is loose. I would think if it is loose, and not air tight that would effect the draft ?

I keep going back and forth as to the possible cause, but if it was a negative pressure situation wouldn't open ing the basement door, window and shut down the radon system eliminate the problem ?

Any one use a fan, like the exhausto ?, it may be cheaper then tearing out the chase and a new chimney.

Any ideas?

thanks again.
 
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