Nubie here. I only have an air control on my R14, no damper. Do I shut the air all the way down, because when i do that usually the temp rises, but when I open the air all the way it starts to cool down. Just wanted to get a "best practice".
So if I have a insert that runs away.....
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pulldownclaw
Feeling the Heat
If your stove is overfiring, shut the air all the way down, that way you'll stop feeding it air. When you notice the temp dropping because you open it up, all your heat is going up the chimney. Close it down to almost closed (check your manual on this) to keep the heat in your house.
Cearbhaill
Feeling the Heat
I dunno- when I shut mine down it just keeps getting hotter and hotter- my insert has no way to totally shut off the air.
I have been told to put aluminum foil over the hole where the air intake lever slides- when I had my runaway the other night (800ºF) I tried the foil but the area under the lip was too hot to fiddle with. It would have needed a fair bit of "molding" the foil to fit the area and no way was that possible. I am toying with the idea of making a pre-formed thingamajiggy to have handy should it happen again.
It is scary and I still think there should be a "stop everything now" mechanism of some sort.
Sitting there waiting for 1) the needle to start going down, or 2) the firebox to explode- and not knowing which is more likely is a bit stressful.
I turn the blower on high and point a room fan at the thing and it has always calmed down... still scary.
I have been told to put aluminum foil over the hole where the air intake lever slides- when I had my runaway the other night (800ºF) I tried the foil but the area under the lip was too hot to fiddle with. It would have needed a fair bit of "molding" the foil to fit the area and no way was that possible. I am toying with the idea of making a pre-formed thingamajiggy to have handy should it happen again.
It is scary and I still think there should be a "stop everything now" mechanism of some sort.
Sitting there waiting for 1) the needle to start going down, or 2) the firebox to explode- and not knowing which is more likely is a bit stressful.
I turn the blower on high and point a room fan at the thing and it has always calmed down... still scary.
When you speak of a stove getting hotter and hotter, you MUST measure just how HOT is is. The EPA stoves are not like the pre EPA stoves. They do burn MUCH hotter than pre EPA. That's why they have a lining of firebrick. Inside that firebox is going to look like a nuclear reactor during the middle of the burn, and if you're accustomed to the dark, smouldering fires of the old stoves, then you're going to think you're overfiring the stove.
An EPA stove, when it approaches its operating temperature, will continue to get hotter because there's a tremendous amount of smoke being generated and the secondaries are burning that smoke. Many stoves have no control over the secondary air, but they control the air that's spraying in at the bottom on the wood. The idea is that they want to burn all of the smoke and they control how much smoke is generated by how much to blow on the wood.
If the draft control is fully closed, and the stove continues to get hotter, relax. This is normal. Now if the exterior of the stove starts to glow, yes you know for sure that are are overfiring. If not, enjoy the fire and get acquainted with more heat than you were expecting. It's perfectly normal for some interior parts to glow red or even orange.
If your stove exterior is reaching 800F, then yea, that's hotter than you need to be, but its still not something to get alarmed with. Just start closing off your draft control a little bit earlier next time.
I hope this helps.
An EPA stove, when it approaches its operating temperature, will continue to get hotter because there's a tremendous amount of smoke being generated and the secondaries are burning that smoke. Many stoves have no control over the secondary air, but they control the air that's spraying in at the bottom on the wood. The idea is that they want to burn all of the smoke and they control how much smoke is generated by how much to blow on the wood.
If the draft control is fully closed, and the stove continues to get hotter, relax. This is normal. Now if the exterior of the stove starts to glow, yes you know for sure that are are overfiring. If not, enjoy the fire and get acquainted with more heat than you were expecting. It's perfectly normal for some interior parts to glow red or even orange.
If your stove exterior is reaching 800F, then yea, that's hotter than you need to be, but its still not something to get alarmed with. Just start closing off your draft control a little bit earlier next time.
I hope this helps.
how many people here are comforable if thier burn tubes glow red? It has happened and i do not like it. I usually shut the air off as much as i can and wait for it to cool off a bit. I may make a foil "plug" to stop the secondary air and may also get an additional fan to blow on the stove.
What type of wood? Second don't pack it chock full. Experiment with small quantity at first to get a handel on burn characteristics. When you shift the handle over you shift the air supply to the secondaries about 1200deg when those are really rolling so yes the temp will rise.
I made a similar error many years ago man that stove got so hot the double wall pipe between the stove top and ceiling was dull red on the out side ( super scary in a mobile home) Had a lot blocks from pallets in there must have been mostly pine. It even caused the 5/16" plate at the top of the fire box to sag in one area.
A manual damper on the flue would have been possibly helpful to control the draft, maybe that could be added to your install.
I made a similar error many years ago man that stove got so hot the double wall pipe between the stove top and ceiling was dull red on the out side ( super scary in a mobile home) Had a lot blocks from pallets in there must have been mostly pine. It even caused the 5/16" plate at the top of the fire box to sag in one area.
A manual damper on the flue would have been possibly helpful to control the draft, maybe that could be added to your install.
Ramon Bow said:
The burn tubes are supposed to be glowing red. If they aren't red, then they aren't functioning. Their heat is what produces the secondary flame.
ControlFreak said:
Control Freak -- great info -- The problem I'm having and I see in so many other posts is the feeling of not being able to control these EPA stoves(especially is you've burned other stoves for years) once the air is closed down. It just takes time and practice to know how one's own stove operates.
Thanks for the info
Buffygirl
Learnin to burn Oslo
EJL923
Minister of Fire
Ramon Bow, I wouldn't plug up the secondaries. This might make them hotter because they wouldnt have any air inside them to keep them cool. If someone else has plugged them up without failure, chime in.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Ramon, we are just learning the same stove (Lopi Republic same as Revere) and just had an episode of glowing tubes too. I thought flames were supposed to shoot out and around them but by the time I saw them they just were glowing (the middle ones.) Stovetop did not get any higher than 650 though so I figure it's not overfiring. Pagey has been super helpful with hints for me about his Endeavor, but wow, the air control stuff isn't quite coming naturally to me yet - though I've only had a couple hours practice so far. Hope it comes to me or I can pay all the good advice heed. My bottom air control seems to really take some pushing and pulling, it's not that easy to get small adjustments like by increments of the spring handle etc.
pulldownclaw
Feeling the Heat
I posted something about the tubes glowing awhile back and somebody said that they're stainless steel, rated up to some ridiculous temp, and that glowing is no problem at all. Unfortunately, I've had the top of my stove glow a few times as well, and that's what I believe is referred to as overfiring. :red:
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
EJL923
Minister of Fire
Stainless steels have a melting point of around 2600°F, but that does not mean their chemical structure hasn't changed. My Rockland has stove top temps of 650-700 regularly, but have never seen the tubes glowing red. However, the fact that multiple users have had the same glowing tells me the mfr may have designed it this way. Repeated anealing and cooling will probably shorten the life of the tubes, but the stove will probably be fine, pending that is also not glowing.
pulldownclaw said:
If the top of the stove firebox exterior is glowing, then I would agree that it's an overfire condition. I just bought this same stove, unfortunately it's sitting in the basement waiting for me to get the time to install it so I don't have direct experience yet. I've been heating with a Napoleon 1401, and the hottest I've ever had the top is 800 degrees. But then, the 1401 has two layers of 3/16" steel on the top plate. The bottom layer could very well be glowing inside. I wouldn't get super excited if this happens on the HI300, but would still continue working to keep it cooler so you're not wasting so much heat.
The one question I would ask is this: Are you running the blower? If you're not running the blower, then I wouldn't be surprised if it glows.
As for the burn tubes glowing, yes they are made out of stainless steel, and I do think that they are designed to glow. The inside baffle of my napoleon will glow orange, and this is desireable. It serves as an ignitor to keep the secondary combustion burning ALL of the smoke. I must admit that the HI300 is my first stove with the common burn tubes, but I haven't been able to fire it up yet. But looking at how the holes are oriented in the burn tubes, I'd be surprised if the tubes DID NOT glow. Good grief, each tube is sitting in front of a blow torch.
Indeed portions of secondaries could begin to glow or possibly it is some reflection from everything else which at that point is also bright orange/red, But to address the the top of the stove proper glowing red, not supposed to be doing that. You might have an issue with the primary air supply not closing completely, or at this point having stated this has happen several times there is more amiss such as broken welds ect allowing excessive combustion air to enter the burn chamber. Best have it checked out thoroughly by a tech that is familiar with this stove.
I did ask before what type of wood you are burning?
I did ask before what type of wood you are burning?
pulldownclaw
Feeling the Heat
I think we're in danger of hijacking this thread, but since the OP hasn't chimed back in, I guess we can continue until he does.
Yes, the tubes glow a lot when I'm running the stove regularly, and it seems to be designed to do so. The blower is almost always in use, unless I'm reloading. With the Hampton there's a small air space above the door where the blower air comes out, and that is where I can look in and see the "inner box" of the stove glowing sometimes, probably has happened 6-8 times. This usually happens when I get distracted after reloading and forget to check back on the stove within 5-10 minutes with the air wide open. I usually set a timer, but sometimes......
There seems to be a small window of time between shutting down the air too soon and leaving it open too long, lots of factors involved; wood species, outdoor temp, etc.
I will admit to having trouble adjusting the door as per Hampton's specs. Took out some washers and the door was too tight. Broke a handle because of it and have resorted to putting the washers back in. I may have some extra air getting in around the door.
Oh, and right now I'm burning red/white oak. :cheese:
Yes, the tubes glow a lot when I'm running the stove regularly, and it seems to be designed to do so. The blower is almost always in use, unless I'm reloading. With the Hampton there's a small air space above the door where the blower air comes out, and that is where I can look in and see the "inner box" of the stove glowing sometimes, probably has happened 6-8 times. This usually happens when I get distracted after reloading and forget to check back on the stove within 5-10 minutes with the air wide open. I usually set a timer, but sometimes......
There seems to be a small window of time between shutting down the air too soon and leaving it open too long, lots of factors involved; wood species, outdoor temp, etc.
I will admit to having trouble adjusting the door as per Hampton's specs. Took out some washers and the door was too tight. Broke a handle because of it and have resorted to putting the washers back in. I may have some extra air getting in around the door.
Oh, and right now I'm burning red/white oak. :cheese:
I was curious on the wood as some of the soft wood can really take off if not dry enough. In my stove, when running oak types, during the day I some times can not see that the secondaries are engaged due to the almost blue flame like a properly adjusted gas flame. I my unit I do not just flip into the secondaries all at once but stage it to that point, I have noticed others reiterating the same in other threads.
The last time i had glowing burn tubes was on a full load of Oak but have also had it happen with elm. I may check out the moisture % out of curiosity. I also had the blower running on high.
My burn tubes do not resemble stainless steel anymore. The middle one especially is pitted similar to bad rust pits. They have seen a lot of use and they are one of the things I expect i will eventually have to replace.
My burn tubes do not resemble stainless steel anymore. The middle one especially is pitted similar to bad rust pits. They have seen a lot of use and they are one of the things I expect i will eventually have to replace.
Yep, they get that way after some use. When you get to summer cleaning take a wire brush to them(hand type is fine) to knock of the scale and reopen any blocked ports. They are a lot like the burn tubes on a gas grille, get crusty after awhile.
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