Okay, tonight I loaded the insert with a combo of poplar and red oak. Set the air to 75% open to start the burn. After watching it for a couple min. I heard pieces of something fall into the insert, or so I thought, maybe some creosote. About 15 min. later the 2 temp gauges said 700 so I shut down to about 25% open. Went upstairs to eat supper and started to notice a smokey smell. Went to check on the fire and the top of the insert had a very faint red glow! So I shut the air all the way, turned the fan on and checked the temps again, still reading 700. The fire subsided after several min. front temps are still 700. Just wondering what the heck happened? Maybe the pieces I heard fall were creosote and they reignited in the baffle? It didn't sound like alot. Anyone who can offer any insight, thanks! I have had temp readings 850 before with no smoke smell or glowing of any kind in the past. Oh, the temp gauges are on the front of the insert, behind the door at each corner. And I am aware that the top of the insert is generally 150 degrees hotter than the front. Thanks again
PE insert too hot?
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Last time that happened to me it wasn't something falling into the insert. It was a weld in the firebox busting loose. At the temps you have been running that stove it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Ok. After the "overfire" I got control of the fire again, and I typically run the stove at these 700-750. I heard that the 900 degree temps, on top, is okay, or was I misled? Anyway cannot find any cracks this afternoon have not removed the baffle yet but all looks well. The baffle is slightly warped but the rails, the baffle set on, are not. If I don't have at least 700 temp, this insert will not heat my 1500 sq ' house above 55 degrees. I bought the Summit because I thought it would heat the best. Now if what you say is true about shutting down before I reach 700, I don't see how this thing would heat anything comfortably let alone a 3000 sq' house.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Wacky1 said:
I'm heating a 2 story 2600sf home with my Summit Insert. Sitting here at 72 now.
At single digits. it can be from 66 to 68 when I wake up, thats usually the coolest the house gets, with usually about 73 during the day. This is during windy single digit days.
If you can't heat that 1500sf at 650 degrees stove temp, you best get some insulation & new windows in there. Cause you have some serious heat loss and/or breezy draft issues then.
If that is the case, no stove will do what you are asking.
I agree with Hog. Making your house the most efficient as possible will ensure that the heat is able to increase and be retained in the house. I am running a PE Pacific in a bungalow that was built in 1960 (3000 square feet, including the basement). When I first installed the stove, I thought it would keep the house nice and toasty all winter. I was wrong.
After that first winter, I increased the attic insulation to >R50, sealed other penetrations to the attic space, sealed and insulated other parts of the house (ie. rim joists etc.), replaced window weatherstripping, and put plastic film on the windows during winter. With the work that was done, the house temperature is comfortable during the winter months.
Although, my insert is not in the most ideal location (in the basement), it is able to keep the house warm. I do have the gas furnace programmed first thing in the morning and evenings, if the temperature below 19 degrees C inside. It has been pretty cold here, so the furnace does usually come on during those times.
Despite all the work, the house is not as efficient as it could be. Limitations include the wall frame construction is 2'x4' (there is only so much of an R rating that can be achieved), not all insulated areas have proper vapour barriers, and the windows are probably from the 1980's (they are double pane but not Low E argon). These issues are too expensive to solve at this time. That said, I can do a bit more sealing and insulating. A good idea is to get an energy audit done, which will provide you a great starting point.
I started running the blower on my insert again this year and I find that it is aiding in the distribution of heat in the house and keeping the stove at a more controllable temperature. However, with a loaded firebox, the insert door area can still peak at around or slightly above the 800 F level. Wood is usually added at around the 250-300 F mark with the air control at 50-75% open. It is usually slowly shut down all the way in 15 minutes. No red was observed on the outside of the stove, but the baffle and side-rails sometimes will redden a bit.
This is the first year I have run with Hog's configuration of thermometers, and it is providing useful information in regard to operating temperatures. I did talk with PE and they stated that these peak temperatures are acceptable for their inserts. I have done the dollar bill test and the door was sealed. I do wish I did have a bit more control of the fire, since it can peak at 800F with the air control fully closed. But this is probably the nature of the beast with this EPA rated stoves.
The baffle will sag over time. Unless extreme, it shouldn't affect performance. I don't think that a onetime slight redness of the stove exterior would hurt the insert too much. When the burn season is over, give your insert a thorough inspection for any cracked welds etc.
In your case, it seems that the temperature at the stove door increased to 700F in a very short amount of time after adding a fresh load(15-20 minutes). What was the temperature of the insert when you added the wood? Have you done the dollar-bill test? Also, do you have insulation and a block-off plate installed in your fireplace above your insert?
After that first winter, I increased the attic insulation to >R50, sealed other penetrations to the attic space, sealed and insulated other parts of the house (ie. rim joists etc.), replaced window weatherstripping, and put plastic film on the windows during winter. With the work that was done, the house temperature is comfortable during the winter months.
Although, my insert is not in the most ideal location (in the basement), it is able to keep the house warm. I do have the gas furnace programmed first thing in the morning and evenings, if the temperature below 19 degrees C inside. It has been pretty cold here, so the furnace does usually come on during those times.
Despite all the work, the house is not as efficient as it could be. Limitations include the wall frame construction is 2'x4' (there is only so much of an R rating that can be achieved), not all insulated areas have proper vapour barriers, and the windows are probably from the 1980's (they are double pane but not Low E argon). These issues are too expensive to solve at this time. That said, I can do a bit more sealing and insulating. A good idea is to get an energy audit done, which will provide you a great starting point.
I started running the blower on my insert again this year and I find that it is aiding in the distribution of heat in the house and keeping the stove at a more controllable temperature. However, with a loaded firebox, the insert door area can still peak at around or slightly above the 800 F level. Wood is usually added at around the 250-300 F mark with the air control at 50-75% open. It is usually slowly shut down all the way in 15 minutes. No red was observed on the outside of the stove, but the baffle and side-rails sometimes will redden a bit.
This is the first year I have run with Hog's configuration of thermometers, and it is providing useful information in regard to operating temperatures. I did talk with PE and they stated that these peak temperatures are acceptable for their inserts. I have done the dollar bill test and the door was sealed. I do wish I did have a bit more control of the fire, since it can peak at 800F with the air control fully closed. But this is probably the nature of the beast with this EPA rated stoves.
The baffle will sag over time. Unless extreme, it shouldn't affect performance. I don't think that a onetime slight redness of the stove exterior would hurt the insert too much. When the burn season is over, give your insert a thorough inspection for any cracked welds etc.
In your case, it seems that the temperature at the stove door increased to 700F in a very short amount of time after adding a fresh load(15-20 minutes). What was the temperature of the insert when you added the wood? Have you done the dollar-bill test? Also, do you have insulation and a block-off plate installed in your fireplace above your insert?
Sisu said:
Well, just 1 yr before the insert install I did a remodel of the house new low-e, argon windows, added some insulation in the attic and, like you said, 2x4 walls limit the amount of insulation. So none was added there. However the house is as insulated good, as well as I can tell, I am sure it is better than when it was built in 1979. Still, I can only do so much. With the rating of the insert, it works good as long as the temps are above 700, given the outside temps are below 15. Wind or not the house remains about the same. I live atop a big hill and the wind blows up out of the "hollar'" and has been strong enough to rip away some shingles. I have water lines in the attic, that are on the east side of the house where most of the wind comes from, that have not froze, so I believe that it is rather well insulated. I still cannot see the reason you are having such high temps with your insert. If I close the air all the way my temps will fall from 750 - 550 within about 20 min. However, when my secondary burn is going the baffle seems to always be glowing. The installer told me today that I likely had creosote fall into the baffle, like you said, the glow I saw probably did not hurt anything, providing I still have control of the fire, which I still do. But he believes the reason the top was glowing and not raising the temps on the front of the insert was because the creosote burns at 2000 degrees and was going back out the chimney due to the draft. He also said the gauges I am using are not designed for the way I am using them. So maybe my 700 is really lower? Who knows. The installer is coming by to check the liner and put a new baffle pin in next week, the pin finally fell back in behind the firebox so now the baffle can be moved by loading, so I just have to be careful. I wish there was a better way of reading the temps of the insert and that PE would put some type of overfire temp to eliminate all the guessing.
"I wish there was a better way of reading the temps of the insert and that PE would put some type of overfire temp to eliminate all the guessing. "
A painful fact of life. If you give a damn about how hot your stove is burning or flue temperatures do not buy a fireplace insert.
A painful fact of life. If you give a damn about how hot your stove is burning or flue temperatures do not buy a fireplace insert.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Thermos are for reference only in this house.
After a few seasons, one should be able to tell by the fuel & fire, how much it is ragging or not ragging. Hell we all sit there and stare at it enough times for gawd knows how long.
Its like learning the feel of driving with a clutch. You may have a tach, but after a while, you ain't looking at it, only too see how far your pressing the limits at times.
After a few seasons, one should be able to tell by the fuel & fire, how much it is ragging or not ragging. Hell we all sit there and stare at it enough times for gawd knows how long.
Its like learning the feel of driving with a clutch. You may have a tach, but after a while, you ain't looking at it, only too see how far your pressing the limits at times.
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