how to heat the house "a little"

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I am a disbeliever in the top down method, it's a novelty at best in my experience. I tried it a few times with terrible experiences. Nothing is better than a good ol' log cabin started from the bottom. Remember that whole heat rises thing. The method of fire starting has little to do with this thread though. If you have aren't able to cleanly start a fire from the bottom then you've got other problems.
 
oldspark said:
I am one of the few that can not get it to work so will view your videos, I guess I need more practice.
Click to expand...

I haven't made one of the actually fire building yet, just the ignition and burn parts. I'll get around to doing that in a bit. I know from reading lots of your posts that you have very dry wood, so the only thing I can think of that could trip you up is by leaving too much air space between the pieces. The tighter, the better. Keep them all going in the same direction as your bottom splits and put enough small kindling (split down to pencil size if you can) on top. You want to get the wood that has started to burn as close to the un-charred wood underneath as possible.

I'm one of those guys who doesn't trust anything unless I can understand the mechanism behind how it works. It was listening to Vanessa Percival talking to John Gulland that got my attention. The "Ah-ha" moment for me was when she mentioned that it was the radiant heat from the flames that made it work. I knew that radiant heat is really a form of light, so it moves equally in all directions, including downwards. Being a type of light, it falls off rapidly in intensity with increasing distance from the source. For example, if your wood is 1/2" away from the flame above instead of 1/4", it only receives one fourth of the radiant heat. That fact works all the way through the stack, so tight stacking just works better and burns cleaner. Seems the gases that are evolved from the charring wood are given off below the flames, so they must rise right through the hottest part of the fire in order to burn. This is also the area that is richest in oxygen when you burn this way, so you are achieving a type of secondary combustion, even in the open air.

This style fire burns with a lot of intensity, so I'm pretty sure you'll get those burn tubes and cats to light off once you decide to shut the bypass, even with a relatively small load. I don't have an EPA stove (yet), but I am curious to see if anybody else has tried this method for a small, one-fill load in a modern stove. I suspect it will burn hot and clean for a short time, then produce a small coal bed and slowly die out.
 
Highbeam said:
The method of fire starting has little to do with this thread though.
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I disagree. By carefully loading the stove with the proper amount of wood, you have not only chosen the starting method, you have predicted the entire course of the fire. Want a short burn? Put small splits on the bottom. Perfect for the purpose suggested in the title of this thread.
 
I have no will power once I start burning and I know it. Thus my effort is to try and put off the start of the season as long as possible.

Last year of course with new stove to play with I was burning by now... My kids are asking for a fire especially after spending last Saturday up at WS. My son (4yo) keeps saying "I'm cold" and looking at the stove... heh.

I have a decent pile of pine to start the season with and hope to burn it first for the most part before getting into my more dense wood... have to strengthen my back again to carry the heavy stuff up the deck stairs after all.

As to when "the line has been crossed" here - I have no plans to kick on the oil heat unless we are out of town. If the house temp falls below 65 and it looks to be falling (i.e. outside isn't warmer and sun isn't out) then I'll probably light up the stove. Sweaters were invented for a reason, blankets cover our beds in the winter and I have yet to see any ice in the toilets :)
 
Highbeam said:
Remember that whole heat rises thing.
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No, hot air rises. The energy from a fire radiates in all directions, (which is why top down fires work,) but the heated air does rise. I'm not arguing with you at all, just being annoying and nitpicky. :cheese: I usually prefer an upside-down, bottom-up fire, with a Super Cedar between 2 splits and kindling on top.
 
Highbeam said:
I am a disbeliever in the top down method, it's a novelty at best in my experience. I tried it a few times with terrible experiences. Nothing is better than a good ol' log cabin started from the bottom. Remember that whole heat rises thing. The method of fire starting has little to do with this thread though. If you have aren't able to cleanly start a fire from the bottom then you've got other problems.
Click to expand...

I thought the same way Highbeam . . . and my first few attempts were miserable, smokey failures . . . however every once in a while I would be tempted to try another and lo and behold one day it worked and worked well . . . I'm not quite sure why the previous ones didn't work . . . all I know is that it works extremely well . . . no collapsing wood structures, no good fire one minute and then a nearly dead fire the next and no constant reloading. Trust me . . . I'm not one to try something just because it's novel and unique . . . I only stick with something if there is a benefit . . . at least a perceived benefit to it.
 
Slow1 said:
I have no will power once I start burning and I know it. Thus my effort is to try and put off the start of the season as long as possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the real problem. I started the season yesterday, and sure enough, made a fire this morning for no good reason. Well, it was foggy out. Gotta have a fire to burn off the fog, right?
 
Battenkiller said:
branchburner said:
When I do a quick and dirty burn on those days, I just accept the fact that the stove isn't going to perform as cleanly and efficiently as possible.
Click to expand...

Why not use a "top-down" fire? I've been experimenting with this method all summer long in the fire pit and chiminea. They start great every time and burn clean as can be. I'm a true believer at this point.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try one of those someday. But I'm burning in a downdraft stove, so it's the matter of not closing the bypass that makes it dirty. Having a top-load with an ashpan door makes it too easy to resist - 30 seconds with the ashpan door open, a hot fire with no waiting.
 
branchburner said:
Battenkiller said:
branchburner said:
When I do a quick and dirty burn on those days, I just accept the fact that the stove isn't going to perform as cleanly and efficiently as possible.
Click to expand...

Why not use a "top-down" fire? I've been experimenting with this method all summer long in the fire pit and chiminea. They start great every time and burn clean as can be. I'm a true believer at this point.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try one of those someday. But I'm burning in a downdraft stove, so it's the matter of not closing the bypass that makes it dirty. Having a top-load with an ashpan door makes it too easy to resist - 30 seconds with the ashpan door open, a hot fire with no waiting.
Click to expand...
does the fluepipe vent from the bottom of the firebox? HO downdraft stove?
 
BLIMP said:
does the fluepipe vent from the bottom of the firebox? HO downdraft stove?
Click to expand...

Only if the installation is done upside down. And then I guess I would load through the ashpan door. Log length of 12", and 2" diameter max. Perfect for the chilly season.
 
soupy1957 said:
just commenting on something I heard about how the ecological cycle works, with regard to wildfires. Meaning, I guess, that we're better off cutting down trees that are not laying rotten yet, to keep the ecological cycle more in balance.

-Soupy1957
Click to expand...

Fire (lightning strike) is a natural and necessary part of an ecosystem but we've had a policy to suppress fire for 100+ years to preserve the wood for lumber. The Smokey the Bear propaganda. A natural fire burns low and cleans out the brush and small trees. National Parks now perform prescribed burns to manage the fuel, but National forests do not. A resulting fire becomes catastrophic because of the fuel build up.

A snag or fallen "nurse" tree is arguably more alive than a living tree, given the biomass that calls it home. Insects, fungus, etc. Another natural and necessary part of an ecosystem.

As to the OP, pre-stove I usually ran the furnace by Oct.1, so I predict I'll be trying to heat the house "a little" by then!
 
Right now we're sticking with sweaters and blankets, which works out pretty well, since it's really only cool from like 10pm to 10am. I am itching to get in a first burn, though, especially since it'll be my first one... ever :) Maybe there will be a cold spell sometime soon :)
 
Crap.. I still have the AC on. Was 90 here today. Will open windows tonight, but it still won't be cool enough to need a fire.. she is out of town for this week and next, so I know I won't build/need a fire.

Honestly 65-68 in the house is plenty warm for me. But she.. likes it... warmer.

Also, above 45 out, I let the heat pump do it's thing if it's needed, that's when it's running at it's most efficient. But generally, if sunny, thermal gain is good enough to not need it.
 
Well it's Wednesday and since Saturday I've had the stove going at least once every day . . . the last three days I've just fired it up in the morning since my wife says she is cold (although I'm thinking it will be getting a lot cooler in the next few months . . . and I actually find the temps to not be so bad) . . . however since I'm pulling wood from my chunk, punk and uglies pile I don't worry . . . plenty of wood to spare and I'm not even close to dipping into my good stash . . . it makes my wife happy and warm . . . and that single fire warms up the place all day and most of the night . . . which is one good thing about the shoulder season temps . . . one fire can keep the place comfortable for a long time.
 
Whenit's cold I just tell my wife she looks purdy and that I need a little cuddle time ;) Works every time.
 
35 degree's last night...small little fire kept the house a nice 72 all night long.
 
branchburner said:
BLIMP said:
does the fluepipe vent from the bottom of the firebox? HO downdraft stove?
Click to expand...

Only if the installation is done upside down. And then I guess I would load through the ashpan door. Log length of 12", and 2" diameter max. Perfect for the chilly season.
Click to expand...
thus, i dont understand why its called a downdraft. Sedore is a downdraft stove.
 
BLIMP said:
branchburner said:
BLIMP said:
does the fluepipe vent from the bottom of the firebox? HO downdraft stove?
Click to expand...

Only if the installation is done upside down. And then I guess I would load through the ashpan door. Log length of 12", and 2" diameter max. Perfect for the chilly season.
Click to expand...
thus, i dont understand why its called a downdraft. Sedore is a downdraft stove.
Click to expand...

Well, I suppose you're right - maybe it should be called a "back-draft" stove, but that doesn't sound too good. Either does "ass-draft" stove, though that has a certain ring to it. It does vent from the rear of the firebox, but it's the lower rear, so the smoke does have to travel "down" to get to the rear burn chamber. Let's compromise - we'll call it a "down-back-draft" or a "back-down-draft" stove.

Haven't seen any Sedore posts in a long time. I think the design is pretty neat, but ugly. Wonder how the Sedore does at heating the house "a little."

PS - Also maybe why they call Sedore a furnace, not a stove?
 
Continuing the hijack...

I thought a true downdraft stove has air entering at some point above the fire, passes down through the fire and exits through the grate below the fire. Not so? The Sedore diagram looks like a cross-draft burner, similar to a VC with the bypass closed, where air is drawn through the fire across the bottom and exits through a passage on the bottom and into a baffled secondary combustion chamber. Also similar to the VC, the Sedore feeds fresh wood to the fire magazine-style as the wood below is consumed.

So do I have a stove or a furnace?
 
~*~Kathleen~*~ said:
soupy1957 said:
just commenting on something I heard about how the ecological cycle works, with regard to wildfires. Meaning, I guess, that we're better off cutting down trees that are not laying rotten yet, to keep the ecological cycle more in balance.

-Soupy1957
Click to expand...

Fire (lightning strike) is a natural and necessary part of an ecosystem but we've had a policy to suppress fire for 100+ years to preserve the wood for lumber. The Smokey the Bear propaganda. A natural fire burns low and cleans out the brush and small trees. National Parks now perform prescribed burns to manage the fuel, but National forests do not. A resulting fire becomes catastrophic because of the fuel build up.

i dont think its suppressing fire in the name of lumber that is causing catostrophic type fires.its the greenie movement that gets every forest declared some type of historic b.s.and now every stick must be left to die and rot,with no comercial value whatsoever,producing carbon monoxide till it rots into oblivion,its only chance for use is fuel for a raging forest fire that will kill the whole forest anyhow,buts thats ok.better that than ....lumber
Click to expand...
 
Battenkiller said:
Continuing the hijack...

I thought a true downdraft stove has air entering at some point above the fire, passes down through the fire and exits through the grate below the fire. Not so? The Sedore diagram looks like a cross-draft burner, similar to a VC with the bypass closed, where air is drawn through the fire across the bottom and exits through a passage on the bottom and into a baffled secondary combustion chamber. Also similar to the VC, the Sedore feeds fresh wood to the fire magazine-style as the wood below is consumed.

So do I have a stove or a furnace?
Click to expand...
dont matter where the air comes in, it goes to the fire due to air buoyancy.
 
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