Questions about my 30 NC

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fran35

Member
Jan 10, 2011
157
PA
Hey guys,
I am new to wood burning and my new stove, the Englander 30 NC has me confused and I am looking for some guidance. As far as the secondary burns, do they only occur when the damper is fully closed? That is the only time that I see the secondary burning/light show. Consequently, if I close the damper-or keep it barely open-the light show goes on for a few minutes and then the flames go out completely. Once I get the wood crusing, and the stove temp at around 450-500, what exactly am I looking for as far as air flow and damper position. I realize that this varies for wood, etc., but I have no basis of what is good for my stove or extended burn times.

Finally, I question whether my closed damper is really shutting all of the air flow out completely. When closed completely, I still see the flames and dancing near the air port and the coals glowing like the air is coming out. Is it possible to have too much draft in a chimney? I have 28 feet of class A Duravent.

Thanks for the help Frank
 
You aren't going to have good secondaries which are sustained until the stove is in the 600+ zone.

If you can't get it up to that sort of temp then I'd suspect the wood isn't seasoned enough.

Shutting the air all the way does not shut off all the air to the stove. These EPA stoves were designed so that you couldn't completely smolder a hot load to reduce smoke.

For my stove, I leave it set so the tip of the spring on the air control is flush or out about 1/8 inch from the ash lip. This will vary from stove to stove dependent upon draft.

I think you need to get that sucker up to temp.

Here is what mine looks like when cruising. This is about as low as I let it cruise.



pen
 
pen said:
You aren't going to have good secondaries which are sustained until the stove is in the 600+ zone.

If you can't get it up to that sort of temp then I'd suspect the wood isn't seasoned enough.

Shutting the air all the way does not shut off all the air to the stove. These EPA stoves were designed so that you couldn't completely smolder a hot load to reduce smoke.

For my stove, I leave it set so the tip of the spring on the air control is flush or out about 1/8 inch from the ash lip. This will vary from stove to stove dependent upon draft.

I think you need to get that sucker up to temp.

Here is what mine looks like when cruising. This is about as low as I let it cruise.



pen


OK I guess part of the issue for me is that I was assuming that anything north of 550 was overfiring the stove. It sounds like I need to let it get hotter. What is your threshold for temperature. Also, how long will your stove run off of the secondary?





Thanks
 
fran35 said:
OK I guess part of the issue for me is that I was assuming that anything north of 550 was overfiring the stove. It sounds like I need to let it get hotter. What is your threshold for temperature. Also, how long will your stove run off of the secondary?
Thanks

It'll have secondaries going for a few hours. It really depends on the size of the coal bed and how I load the wood. If I fill it to the gills and fit them together like pieces of a jig saw puzzle, then it'll last longer. Just a few pieces loose and there won't be much secondary action as there will be pleanty of air in the box to burn right on the wood.

If there is enough primary air in the stove, you won't have secondaries. They are only going to work if there isn't enough air directly on the wood to burn up what is being outgassed.

I try and keep the stove cruising from under 700 - 750 although occasionally it has slipped north of 800.

pen
 
I have similar experience to what Pen said. Except my secondaries kick in around 400-500 without any fuss with good wood. Most of the stuff I have is pretty good. My stove frequently runs 7-800 on secondaries alone.
 
I have a different size and brand of stove, but it works basically the same way as yours. I see secondary burn throughout the burn cycle, but sometimes it is harder to notice than others. Once the stove gets hot and the fire is going strongly I see yellow 'primary' burn starting at the wood. Generally where this flame reaches the secondary burn tubes I see secondary burn mixed in with the primary. I differentiate between the two because what I think is secondary burn shoots down and out from the secondary burn tubes instead of shooting up from the wood like normal primary burn.

In my stove, I can reduce the primary air when I get strong yellow flames from the wood. If the wood is hot enough to out-gas, turning down the primary air will increase the secondary flame. As I just said, strong primary flames usually mean there is some secondary flame although the secondary might be hard to notice. At other times, when I guess the wood isn't hot enough, the secondary flame will die out as the primary flame dies back. In my stove I usually have to maintain some primary flames in order to maintain good secondaries. A good burn for me means a modest amount of primary flame (maybe 1/4 of the width of the stove has yellow primary flame) and secondaries over most of the stove (at least 3/4 of the width of the stove has consistent secondaries). this means the primary air is open about 1/4 or so, but it varies.
 
Yeah I think too many people only think of secondary combustion as the rolling blast furnace effect up top during the charring phase of the burn. All of those dancing flames on top of the wood during a burn cycle are the product of secondary combustion air. And in fact are the true secondary combustion.
 
And you need to make the distinction between a "cold load," when the stove and flue are cold or barely warm, and a "hot re-load," where the stove and flue are heated. The stove behaves very differently in these situations.

If you can build a fast, hot fire in a cold stove, you'll get secondary combustion, both at the jets, and around the firebox. But don't be surprised if you can't get it until you've figured out how to heat the stove up fast enough. Otherwise, most of your first load is sacrificed to heat up the stove and flue/liner, and to get a red coal bed in the bottom of the firebox.

Subsequent loads should be put in while you've still got enough heat in the red coals to get the wood going fast and up to the range where secondary combustion can occur. If you wait too long, you'll be in "cold load" mode again, and I found that was a great way to waste wood.

If you've got red coals lying all over, you can usually wait 5-10 minutes after adding a fresh load, and then gradually turn the air down. If you've got a good set up and good wood, you might be able to slide the air control fully in, but you might also cool off the fire too much that way and lose secondary combustion. You have to gauge it by what you see in the firebox, and since you're new to this, it will take some learning.

I can't speak for others, but it's rare that I ever have the air control fully closed.
 
What none of us has actually stated clearly is that secondary burn requires excess wood gases and particles to be released from the wood, and this stops once the wood gets to the coal stage. So, once you get to the coal stage don't expect much if any secondary combustion.
 
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