plumbing rads question

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woodsmaster

Minister of Fire
Hearth Supporter
Jan 25, 2010
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N.W. Ohio
Getting ready to plumb up my rads and was wondering thoughts as to if I should put each rad on its own circuit or if It would work just as well to put 2 on some circuits. I plan on getting Thermostatic valves for them. For two rads in the same room would it work ok to put the thermostatic valve on one rad and leave the other one with the flow all or most open so the other would kick in as needed or should I put Thermostatic valves on both in the same room.
 

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Mikefrommain thanks for the diagram that is basically what I want to do only without solar and a wood boiller of course. I have a 8 loop manifold and will have 7 panel rads, 2 towel warmers and also a hot tub and side arm in the system. Thats why I was thinking of putting two panels on a loop or two. Can I run my boiler water threw the sidearm 3/4" and still have enough
btu's and gal/min for the 1" 8 loop manifold Aprox. 50,000 btu desighn load ? Using a 3 speed 15-58 fc grundfos circulator 0 - 17 gal/min. Thanks J.T.
 
Couldn't download the article for some reason.
 
I suppose if you put two radiators in series you could control output of both by putting a thermostatic valve on the second radiator.
 
You can simplify your system a bit by having panels in series with thermostatic valves.
You should not install them with more than two in series.

Just be sure that you determine which line is an inlet or outlet on the panels.

I know someone who installed them backwards once upon a time.
No names, but he makes tanks for a living.
 
A question I have while on the topic of radiant panels (which I not so secretly lust after and would install in my house if sufficient time and money fell on me, which they are unlikely to do)...

When running PEX right to the panel-- from what I have read in Wirsbo literature, PEX is not to be left exposed to UV light from daylight (definitely not even kept outdoors for any significant length of time), as it degrades the material... I know that decent windows should dramatically cut (but unless you have really high end windows, will not come close to eliminating) the UV components of sunlight... is there a long run concern that exposed PEX in a room will eventually degrade from light?

Same question about the O2 barrier tubing (not the PEX-AL-PEX)- how robust is that outer coating of the O2 barrier on the tubing if it's subject to inevitable minor wear and tear from scuffing of/ by furniture, vacuum cleaners, etc.

I may be overthinking here (me, really, no, never) but it's one of those cases of "if I might do it, do it right, as it's a heck of a lot less frustrating than running into problems by doing it any other way)... so I would welcome the pros' insights as to whether such concerns are (a) not a worry at all, ever; (b) a minor concern but totally outweighed by the advantages of having a seamless run of PEX right to the radiator with no fittings or transitions to other materials; or (c) something worth thinking about and dealing with (by having copper or some other material "in the room" to the radiator) if one is really inclined to the "do it once, do it right" approach....
 
Your thinking correctly pybyr do it once correctly. Wirsbo is correct also no exposure to sunlight filtered or not. Of the options you list copper pipe would be the least expensive while dealing with the sun issue, then a transistion coupling below the floor, then PAP (my preference) back to the boiler room. I prefer the PAP as it is a 100% O2 barrier & the scrape,scuff/scratch issue goes away unless of course you cut it deep enough to damage the alum center. Don't get me wrong you could have your cake & eat it too by putting high end pipe insulation around any exposed (to the sun) piece of PAP. Something nice & dressy that goes with the home, heck even a custom made little chase for the pipe would work just trim it to match house trim. As long as it blocks the sun it does the job.
 
I would for sure run copper in exposed areas like that. Not the cheap thin chit either.
 
I was thinking that I would paint the pex or put a chase around it. I havnt actually run the lines yet. They are just short pieces That I stubed threw the floor to get an idea of what I was going to do.
 
Wanted to add that I would have liked to have brought the lines threw the wall and not have to worry about cleaning around them but my house is over 100 years old and has large
beams around the perimiter of the floor that made it nearly impossible to do.
 
Does any one Know about the Knob at the top of the rad ? I assum it adjusts the flow ? Can I replace the Knob with a TRV or do I have to put the TRV at the inlet on the bottom.
I tried to pull the Knob off for a look But It didn't want to come off easy and I didn't want to break it. There was no manual with these and I got them 3rd party.
 
OK cant get any opinions so I'm going to run 3/4 line to the sidearm then 3/4 to the rad manifold from the side arm exit and hope it works. If not, I can allways redo it I guess. Getting ready to go get plumbing parts this morning. Anyone Know about the Knobs on the rads? I need to order my TRV's Yet and the cold weather is coming.

EDIT : I figured out where the confusion was coming from. The supply and return on the side arm for the boiler side is 1" and I was thinking it was 3/4"
 
Use a product called "radsnaps" to protect exposed pex from sunlight. DO NOT put copper anywhere near those steel panel rads or cast rads if you don't want them to corrode prematurely. I don't like copper anywhere in a system hosting steel/iron rads but that's me. Sure, Joe Schmoe will chime in saying he ran copper 50 years ago in his best friends bosses sons place and no problems since or "I'm the best plumber in Maine and only use copper and people beg me to plumb their homes" BS. Don't do it. PEX-AL is fine just check each fitting & make sure the isolation gasket is there. Its there to protect the brass just as much as it protects the steel/iron. TRV's should thread onto the upper knob after removing the cover which doubles as a manual knob, the top opposite side should have a "coin" bleed valve. Closed systems only for steel rads, no pools/hot tubs and pH balance & test your water yearly. Use auto air vents at all high points. Fix leaks to reduce make-up, its best practice anyhow and those steel units will last forever.

Edit: Siegenthaler WAAAY overthinks things. As long as you somewhat balance the lengths of your runs, you're fine - the TRV does the fine tuning. I ran 3 loops with 2, 3 run manis on each for 18 rads total. The run length on each isn`t perfect but its close. All rads spank out the heat until the TRV closes. As long as your pump is sized for the task, you`re set. I use the DHW and bathroom towel warmers as non-TRV`d, persistent loads so I don`t need a DP valve. Anything else, just ask. Rads are still new science in NA, last thing you want to do is take advise from some clown who knocks out a fin tube instal each day. I ran into plenty when installing my setup. They just don`t get it. I also used cast rads from the UK and had to ream out the 15mm TRV`s to 5é8 on a lathe. If you need to use rigid tubing like I did, use stainless. I`ll take pics if you want. Good luck.
 
Good catch flame, forgot about the dissimiliar metals & it has been discussed here many times. AFA your other questions re: the rad, best I can suggest is to find the manufacturers label & then spend some www. time at their site AFA the knob which (should) adjust flow & any other Q's you may have. AFA pipe size you will need to know how many btu/hr you want to deliver/use at each rad/zone & pipe according to that required flow to get the btu/hr desired.
 
flameretardant said:
Use a product called "radsnaps" to protect exposed pex from sunlight. DO NOT put copper anywhere near those steel panel rads or cast rads if you don't want them to corrode prematurely. I don't like copper anywhere in a system hosting steel/iron rads but that's me. Sure, Joe Schmoe will chime in saying he ran copper 50 years ago in his best friends bosses sons place and no problems since or "I'm the best plumber in Maine and only use copper and people beg me to plumb their homes" BS. Don't do it. PEX-AL is fine just check each fitting & make sure the isolation gasket is there. Its there to protect the brass just as much as it protects the steel/iron. TRV's should thread onto the upper knob after removing the cover which doubles as a manual knob, the top opposite side should have a "coin" bleed valve. Closed systems only for steel rads, no pools/hot tubs and pH balance & test your water yearly. Use auto air vents at all high points. Fix leaks to reduce make-up, its best practice anyhow and those steel units will last forever.

Edit: Siegenthaler WAAAY overthinks things. As long as you somewhat balance the lengths of your runs, you're fine - the TRV does the fine tuning. I ran 3 loops with 2, 3 run manis on each for 18 rads total. The run length on each isn`t perfect but its close. All rads spank out the heat until the TRV closes. As long as your pump is sized for the task, you`re set. I use the DHW and bathroom towel warmers as non-TRV`d, persistent loads so I don`t need a DP valve. Anything else, just ask. Rads are still new science in NA, last thing you want to do is take advise from some clown who knocks out a fin tube instal each day. I ran into plenty when installing my setup. They just don`t get it. I also used cast rads from the UK and had to ream out the 15mm TRV`s to 5é8 on a lathe. If you need to use rigid tubing like I did, use stainless. I`ll take pics if you want. Good luck.

Thanks for the great info. I do appreciate it. J.T.
 
Wanted to share my excitement. I just bought actuators off ebay for my rads. Give $17.00 each for them. The Knob I was asking about just screws off and the actuator should screw right
on. I got my side arm hx up and running and it works great so far. I should have the pex run to the rads this week. I've been putting it off because I have to work in the crawl space and
have to gut a old plaster and lath closet to get lines upstairs. It feels great to almost be done with this project.
 
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