1830 Home Needs Stove Advice

[dpgoalie]

Hello,

I purchased a home built in 1830 this past December. I am located in New Hampshire and temps. can get to below zero and even -30 with the wind chill. The basement is unfinished and is stone and drafty. All of the windows are single pane and drafty. The doors are also drafty and there is not much insulation in the home. As you can see by the floor plan I included there is no way for the heat from a wood stove to get to one end of the house. The den , reading room, and bathroom remain cold. The floors are all wood. The home is 1900 square feet and all of the bedrooms are located up stairs.

This past winter I used a 1975 Vermont Castings Defiant that has gaps in it. I can see the flames around the top when the lights are out at night. I was burning fairly green oak and it was a pain. I was not able to keep the den and reading room warm, but the heat did travel up the stairs and keep the entire upstairs warm.

By the end of the summer I will have finished insulating the attic. And maybe, just maybe finish reglazing all of the windows and the storms. I also will put a door way and a door near the staircase that will create an opening between the livingroom and the den. There is a fan in the chimeny encasing that faces the stove which I will fix and I will place a fan above the staircase to push heat down and help circulate it.

I have already purchased my wood which is 8 cords. The logs are 22” long.

I have spoken to 3 different dealers and I have received much different opinions from each of them.

I was thinking about getting the Hearthstone Equinox due to the drafty nature of my home. But what I am looking for the most, is long burn times and heat times.

Any information or advice on how to set up the home or which stove will be greatly appreciated. I have spent lots of time reading posts on this stove, but I figured ever situation was home specific so I figured I would ask and inlcude a floor plan.

Thanks

 

[SolarAndWood]

I heat about the same space with a stove in the middle of the house. Certainly, dry wood and an efficient stove are key. I removed the majority of the interior walls and the stove is now very effective. I'm not sure what you are willing to do structurally; removing the wall between the living room and the kitchen would help the heat move down the hall on the first floor. Though likely a violation of current local fire codes, the registers that go through 1st floor ceiling to the second floor in a lot of old houses are a simple way to evenly move heat to the second floor. I would also get more wood if you are relying on it exclusively to heat your house. Best of luck with your project.

 

[Tree farmer]

This is a better suited post for the hearth room but Ill throw my 2 at it anyway. My best friend has a hearthstone (post and beam open concept 2000 sqft) and it is a real heater as he heats the whole house with it, if I had a place upstairs I would have one. Any newer stove than what you have will be a big improvement but get your wood dry-split and stack it by April leave oak for two seasons if you can. try this post in the Hearthroom good luck.

 

[Gooserider]

I agree, I think this is more of a "Hearth-room" thread, and I'm moving it there as soon as I post this... The boiler room is more for folks that stick ugly boxes in the basement and push the heat from them elsewhere, while the Hearth room is more for pretty boxes in the living space, with the heat used directly... The Hearthstones are excellent units, but they are definitely in the "pretty box" category.

(Now if instead you were talking about finishing the basement, retrofitting radiant and putting in a boiler...)

Gooserider

(BTW, no big deal about posting in the wrong room - I just like to say why we move stuff...)

 

[Jim K in PA]

Welcome to Hearth.com! As Goose pointed out, this is the wrong section to post in regarding a freestanding convective stove. I am sure you will get more responses in the Hearth Room.

I do want to commend you on one comment. As another early 19th century home owner, reglazing your original(?) windows and the added storms is an excellent decision. I would also suggest adding spring bronze weather stripping to both the sashes and the storm to cut down on drafts. You really can make the old single pane sash and storm combo as efficient as a modern replacement window, and perhaps better. The larger air gap is actually a far better insulator than the 5-10mm gap in double glazed replacement windows.

Best of luck with your home.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Congrats on purchasing an old home. It will become your new hobby (with a bunch of smaller hobbies coming with it...like wood burning). Your floorplan is far more forgiving than mine and you should have greater success in heating with one stove. My in-laws, who also own an old home (both of ours were built in the 1740s), have a Hearthstone Heritage and love it.

We also have single pane windows with storm windows throughout. Caulk is my best friend, currently. For those that suggest knocking out walls, it is far more difficult in an old home than in a newer house (especially when some of my interior walls are 21 inches of stone).

What is your ceiling height in the down stairs? Are they over or under 8'? If they are over 8' you might want to think about ceiling fans to move air around the house. I find it interesting that there is no access to the den or hall via the living room. The way the walls line up I am guessing that the reading room and the den were added on at some point in the history of the home.

In old homes, back in the day, it was very common to have a wood stove in each room (especially the old '4 square' homes). So, you might want to think about having more than one stove in the home. The Hearthstone Equinox is a big ass stove. And while I am a proponent of going big, it might be useless to go this big in your layout.

So, if this was my house I would seriously think about going with two stove. You said you were getting decent heat to the upstairs, and with a better stove that should increase a bit. After that I would look into putting a second stove into the Reading Room or the Den and maybe create and opening between the two rooms (either now or later depending upon the money situation) while still having heat flow into the Hall.

 

[edthedawg]

Kinda at a loss on which version of this thread to reply on but i'll pick this one, what the heck...

You have a few whacks here - cranky old dragon for a stove, probably a woefully inadequate flue that needs badly to be relined, and then your assorted drafts and leaks. And then you compounded it with green wood - no wonder you were cold!

I heated a 2400+ sq ft 1885 Victorian last year w/ a centrally located Heritage. Sure it needed some prodding along w/ the oil heat here and there - I'm assuming that is an option to some degree? Any old closed-floorplan house is going to wind up with cold, drafty spots when you try to heat using a localized source like this. Plus you are drawing in air to the stove, so that makes every void and leak in your walls, windows, and doorways feel just that much worse. Spend your summer insulating the attic and walls, caulking gaps in the exterior, finding ways to insulate the floor sills around the perimeter of the house, and adding weatherstripping where it might help.

I think if you put an Equinox in, you're going to roast yourself out. Plain and simple - it's past the top end of what you likely need. Especially once you refine your preparation practices and get good, seasoned, dry wood to use... Add in the clearances, chimney size, floor protection, etc. needed and you are way up there on complexity for your application. I think if you can find something with the following specs:
- 6" dia flue requirement
- 2000 sq ft nominal "heating capacity" (I use that term loosely - you will be fine up to the 2400ish sq ft point given your drafts and location)
- 22" log capacity - cutting your existing wood down smaller sucks.

And finally (as usual, I'm overposting here...) work on your airflow plans. Push cold air toward the stove. Don't waste time trying to "move warm air away." You want to drive as much cold air as you can down / toward the heat source, and then let natural convection take it over from there.

Good luck and welcome to the Hearth!

 

[BrowningBAR]

reglazing windows means replacing windows i hope. old windows probably have lead paint which is released as powder from friction of opening/closing windows & real bad for kids. same for any friction surface. floors can have lead too so sanding is tricky
2 people can easily blow cellulose into attic, walls can be tricky. foundation stone can be spray foamed when stone is driest but is expensive...good luck

No, reglazing is not replacing.

 

[Jags]

I'm sooo confused...I don't know which post to post on, so I'll post to both: %-P

My opinion:

First your gonna need to tighten up that house. If it is drafty, it will always have warm and cold spots. And consume TONS of heat and wood.

Second, I would open a doorway from the living room to the Den. If you plan on heating the reading room with stove heat, I would also open a doorway from the den to the reading room. This will give you a path that you can now start to circulate the heat. Heat in the living room will pass to the den, to the reading room, to the hall, to the kitchen and return the cold air from the kitchen back into the living room.

I would replace your stove with a fairly large EPA stove, say 3+ cu ft firebox. Sounds like your gonna need some serious BTU’s.

Oh, and EPA stoves HATE unseasoned wood.

 

[edthedawg]

reglazing windows means replacing windows i hope. old windows probably have lead paint which is released as powder from friction of opening/closing windows & real bad for kids. same for any friction surface. floors can have lead too so sanding is tricky
2 people can easily blow cellulose into attic, walls can be tricky. foundation stone can be spray foamed when stone is driest but is expensive...good luck

At the risk of hijacking this thread (UFO - go ahead and start a new one on this topic if you want)...

I sincerely hope you DO NOT REPLACE your windows with any kind of tickytacky Jeld-Wen / Anderson / Pella / etc. replacement windows. I replaced 15 windows in my house and I will never do it again. I used the highest quality, solid-wood, aluminum-clad exterior, double-pane windows I could. They're gorgeous and expensive and I still wish I had my old wavy, seeded, leaky single-pane windows back. I've worked in old house renovation and historical preservation for years - I will never do another "replacement window" again!

Every replacement window uses vinyl SOMEWHERE in it. Mine uses it for the springloaded guides that hold the windows up. Vinyl breaks down in sunlight. Nothing spends more time in the sunlight than roof, siding, and windows... Lead paint on windows is simple enough to deal with, and the amount of lead-containing dust that releases from normal use is negligible. Kids get more lead ingested from chewing on McDonald's Happy Meal toys that are made in China these days.

Bottom line is if you scrape or sand anything, do your best to contain the dust, cover over existing lead-containing paints with new primer and paint, and do a good job of washing your hands and clothes when you're done...

Floor sanding is best left to the pro's, and they do a good job of dust containment, as well. We had cellulose blown into the walls of our house and it was a 1-day job for an experienced two-man team.

Attics can have cellulose in the floor and/or fiberglass tacked up into the ceiling if you plan on using that space more. Just be wary of airflow needs for the roof (i.e. if there's soffit / ridge venting, you just need airflow vents put in against the face of the roof sheathing). Easy to do yourself.

 

[BrowningBAR]

reglazing windows means replacing windows i hope. old windows probably have lead paint which is released as powder from friction of opening/closing windows & real bad for kids. same for any friction surface. floors can have lead too so sanding is tricky
2 people can easily blow cellulose into attic, walls can be tricky. foundation stone can be spray foamed when stone is driest but is expensive...good luck

At the risk of hijacking this thread (UFO - go ahead and start a new one on this topic if you want)...

I sincerely hope you DO NOT REPLACE your windows with any kind of tickytacky Jeld-Wen / Anderson / Pella / etc. replacement windows. I replaced 15 windows in my house and I will never do it again. I used the highest quality, solid-wood, aluminum-clad exterior, double-pane windows I could. They're gorgeous and expensive and I still wish I had my old wavy, seeded, leaky single-pane windows back. I've worked in old house renovation and historical preservation for years - I will never do another "replacement window" again!

Every replacement window uses vinyl SOMEWHERE in it. Mine uses it for the springloaded guides that hold the windows up. Vinyl breaks down in sunlight. Nothing spends more time in the sunlight than roof, siding, and windows... Lead paint on windows is simple enough to deal with, and the amount of lead-containing dust that releases from normal use is negligible. Kids get more lead ingested from chewing on McDonald's Happy Meal toys that are made in China these days.

Bottom line is if you scrape or sand anything, do your best to contain the dust, cover over existing lead-containing paints with new primer and paint, and do a good job of washing your hands and clothes when you're done...

Floor sanding is best left to the pro's, and they do a good job of dust containment, as well. We had cellulose blown into the walls of our house and it was a 1-day job for an experienced two-man team.

Attics can have cellulose in the floor and/or fiberglass tacked up into the ceiling if you plan on using that space more. Just be wary of airflow needs for the roof (i.e. if there's soffit / ridge venting, you just need airflow vents put in against the face of the roof sheathing). Easy to do yourself.

Alright, the old home guys are coming out of the wood work!

I agree with the windows. Old, single pane windows with the wavy glass is not replaceable. Refurbishing old windows can be done and can be made as efficient as new windows. If you are going to spend $10,000-$20,000 on windows they might as well look right when you are done. How much did the wall insulation run you? And how many walls did you have done (the first 2/3 of our house are stone walls, so not much can be done there).

I still feel two stoves is the way to go with the original posters needs.

 

[edthedawg]

It was a few years ago but i think it was only a couple thou to do the entire house - all the walls. Gently pulled off two clapboards at top and bottom of each floor, drilled thru the sheathing, pumped in the insulation from top and bottom til it got good backpressure, then re-installed the claps. Can't even tell they were there. It ain't perfect but we're glad we did it.

Any time I have a wall or ceiling open now, in the subsequent years, I pack the floor box sills up good, pack the cellulose in the walls up/down tight, and lay in some new fiberglass to fill the resultant voids. Esp the box sills in old balloon-framed houses - those are perpetual freeze-points for us...

I'd stick w/ only 1 central stove. It's only a 950 sq ft footprint. I'd spend time widening doorways and refining the airflow from a single large stove. I like Jags' thoughts on the 3 cu ft box.

And can we all please pick ONE of these duplicate threads to live with and retire the other one?

 

[BrowningBAR]

And can we all please pick ONE of these duplicate threads to live with and retire the other one?

There must be a merge feature that is available to the mods, right?

 

[Jags]

And can we all please pick ONE of these duplicate threads to live with and retire the other one?

There must be a merge feature that is available to the mods, right?

Craigs on it.

 

[joshlaugh]

reglazing windows means replacing windows i hope. old windows probably have lead paint which is released as powder from friction of opening/closing windows & real bad for kids. same for any friction surface. floors can have lead too so sanding is tricky
2 people can easily blow cellulose into attic, walls can be tricky. foundation stone can be spray foamed when stone is driest but is expensive...good luck

At the risk of hijacking this thread (UFO - go ahead and start a new one on this topic if you want)...

I sincerely hope you DO NOT REPLACE your windows with any kind of tickytacky Jeld-Wen / Anderson / Pella / etc. replacement windows. I replaced 15 windows in my house and I will never do it again. I used the highest quality, solid-wood, aluminum-clad exterior, double-pane windows I could. They're gorgeous and expensive and I still wish I had my old wavy, seeded, leaky single-pane windows back. I've worked in old house renovation and historical preservation for years - I will never do another "replacement window" again!

Every replacement window uses vinyl SOMEWHERE in it. Mine uses it for the springloaded guides that hold the windows up. Vinyl breaks down in sunlight. Nothing spends more time in the sunlight than roof, siding, and windows... Lead paint on windows is simple enough to deal with, and the amount of lead-containing dust that releases from normal use is negligible. Kids get more lead ingested from chewing on McDonald's Happy Meal toys that are made in China these days.

Bottom line is if you scrape or sand anything, do your best to contain the dust, cover over existing lead-containing paints with new primer and paint, and do a good job of washing your hands and clothes when you're done...

Floor sanding is best left to the pro's, and they do a good job of dust containment, as well. We had cellulose blown into the walls of our house and it was a 1-day job for an experienced two-man team.

Attics can have cellulose in the floor and/or fiberglass tacked up into the ceiling if you plan on using that space more. Just be wary of airflow needs for the roof (i.e. if there's soffit / ridge venting, you just need airflow vents put in against the face of the roof sheathing). Easy to do yourself.

Alright, the old home guys are coming out of the wood work!

I agree with the windows. Old, single pane windows with the wavy glass is not replaceable. Refurbishing old windows can be done and can be made as efficient as new windows. If you are going to spend $10,000-$20,000 on windows they might as well look right when you are done. How much did the wall insulation run you? And how many walls did you have done (the first 2/3 of our house are stone walls, so not much can be done there).

I still feel two stoves is the way to go with the original posters needs.

I am another guy who would keep those old windows. They lasted this long, why would you replace them now? I wish I still had all my original windows.

 

[Gooserider]

Thinking about it, I kind of agree with some of the other posters that said the Equinox is probably overkill for your setup... I would suggest that you might do better to go down a little bit and look at either the Mansfield or the Heritage if you want to stick with a soapstone stove (Which is a good idea for this setup)

I've had the "recut the pile" situation, and while it is a PITA, it isn't that bad if one builds a recutting jig the way I did so that you can use the chainsaw to do a wagon load of splits at a time...

Gooserider

 

[dpgoalie]

Wow,

Thanks so much to all of you. Lot's of useful information!

Here is what I have decided so far.

1. The windows and storms are getting reglazed. I love the look of them and I want the wavey glass. They are also in great shape except for the glaze.
2. I am going to build a doorway from the living room into the den and also open up into the hallway.
3. I am going to have the chimeny relined.

The big question I still have is which stove. I hear you when you say the Equinox is too big. But I am looking for long burn times as wood is the only source of heat. I was told that I could control the burn on the Equinox so as not to roast myself out. Any opinions on this? If you guys feel very strongly that the Equinox is just to big for 1900 drafty square feet, I will go smaller. If the heat will be controllable, I will still consider the Equinox.

Thanks again.

Looking for longest burn time possible (and a nice looking stove of course)

I do have a furnace but I am disconnecting it to add the stove to the flu. Someone told me to get a wood furnace and connect it to the excisting duct work...but then I don't get to look at the fire....I wanted to retire other post but don't know how

 

[Dix]

Yo, DP ..sometimes you just have to wait for the thread to "post". It's a quirk around here

Opening up that space is going to make a world of differance

 

[Gooserider]

+1 Dp - PLEASE give posts a moment to show up before reposting... Don't quite know how you did it, but I just deleted about seven or eight near duplicates... Since I have to deal with them one at a time, this is a bit of a nusiance... (As a moderator, I get buttons that you don't have) Once they do show up, you should have an "edit post" button (only on posts that you wrote) that will allow you to go back in and fix things if you need to...

Gooserider

 

[Todd]

Wow,

Thanks so much to all of you. Lot's of useful information!

Here is what I have decided so far.

1. The windows and storms are getting reglazed. I love the look of them and I want the wavey glass. They are also in great shape except for the glaze.
2. I am going to build a doorway from the living room into the den and also open up into the hallway.
3. I am going to have the chimeny relined.

The big question I still have is which stove. I hear you when you say the Equinox is too big. But I am looking for long burn times as wood is the only source of heat. I was told that I could control the burn on the Equinox so as not to roast myself out. Any opinions on this? If you guys feel very strongly that the Equinox is just to big for 1900 drafty square feet, I will go smaller. If the heat will be controllable, I will still consider the Equinox.

Thanks again.

Looking for longest burn time possible (and a nice looking stove of course)

I do have a furnace but I am disconnecting it to add the stove to the flu. Someone told me to get a wood furnace and connect it to the excisting duct work...but then I don't get to look at the fire....I wanted to retire other post but don't know how

Equinox will definitely be overkill especially after you tighten the house up some. You would probably be better off with the Mansfield and still get the same burn times and burn less wood. Don't be afraid to take a look at catalytic stoves. They do have longer burn times, than their similar sized non cat counter parts and are a little more efficient.

 

[begreen]

Wow,
If you guys feel very strongly that the Equinox is just to big for 1900 drafty square feet, I will go smaller. If the heat will be controllable, I will still consider the Equinox.

It's great that you are open to ideas. Get rid of the draftiness. From that point on, regardless of heat source, it becomes a much more manageable issue and costs less to heat, regardless of the heating source. Caulking is the cheapest start. Use good quality caulk. Go after air leaks with a vengeance from crawlspace up through the heated envelope. Long burn times will then be achievable with a 3 cu ft stove. in this size house.

Also remember, with no heat in the basement at all, freezing pipes (and cold floors) can be the result when it's cold and the wind is blowing hard. It might be worth having a home energy audit done first to help decide where and how to invest in making this a more comfortable and reasonably heated house.

 

[edthedawg]

Wow,
If you guys feel very strongly that the Equinox is just to big for 1900 drafty square feet, I will go smaller. If the heat will be controllable, I will still consider the Equinox.

It's great that you are open to ideas. Get rid of the draftiness. From that point on, regardless of heat source, it becomes a much more manageable issue and costs less to heat, regardless of the heating source. Caulking is the cheapest start. Use good quality caulk. Go after air leaks with a vengeance from crawlspace up through the heated envelope. Long burn times will then be achievable with a 3 cu ft stove. in this size house.

Also remember, with no heat in the basement at all, freezing pipes (and cold floors) can be the result when it's cold and the wind is blowing hard. It might be worth having a home energy audit done first to help decide where and how to invest in making this a more comfortable and reasonably heated house.

Agreed w/ Bgreen

EQ is probably way more than you need. Knock down to the Mansfield probably, if you're intent on staying w/ Hearthstone. Woodstock Fireview might be perfect in this application too, since you want the long, controlled burn. People here are raving about them - I know I'm not the only Heritage owner who wishes he'd known more about Woodstocks at the time. But also probably just a touch small for you to go sole-source 24/7. With the right wood, you can definitely get 8-10 hr burn times from a Mansfield.

I still think you need to investigate that flue some more - find out what the interior dimensions are, whether it's tile-lined as it stands, etc. You may well not have the option to go to an 8" code-legal lining.

As for disabling the existing furnace to use that single flue for the stove - while noble, you really want some kinda backup heat. It just plain makes sense. Even if it's woefully expensive and underpowered, just something to keep you alive or your pipes unfrozen... Maybe you could locate a new chase for Class-A pipe for the new stove thru an upstairs closet and make a new protrusion thru the roof? That way you keep your existing flue and backup heating, and get yourself a known commodity in terms of new flue safety.