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1st Burn in Englander 30-NCH & a Few Questions

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by ajhenglander, Jan 2, 2009.

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  1. ajhenglander

    ajhenglander New Member

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    Recently installed a Englander 30-NCH into my basement from Home Depot that replaced an old unsafe wood burner unit that I removed many years ago. Had a 10% off coupon, so it cost me $900. Fired it up for the 1st time today to begin the paint curing process. One issue I had was that I could not keep the fire going with the door 100% closed. Every time I had a decent fire going, I would close the door and the fire would seem to smother itself out due to lack of oxygen. As soon as I would crack the door open a few mm, the fire would regain it strength. I had the inlet air control fully open as the instructions stated, I moved this back and forth and it did not seem to make any difference on what was going on inside the fire box. The wood I was using was dry (2 years old). What am I missing with this air inlet control, there is no other information on how it is supposed to work besides based on where you set it for low, med, & high burn rates. I did not have a roaring fire going based on the instructions for the paint cure. The flu temp was barely at the proper burn temp on the flu temp device.

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  2. North of 60

    North of 60 Minister of Fire

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    A few of questions first. 1) How tall is your new chimney/or existing chimney? 2) do you have outside air piped to it? 3) Do you have any appliances causing a negative in your house that would be affecting your stove? 4) Was your chimney swept and cleaned before your install, if you used existing?

    Welcome to The Hearth!
    N 0f 60
  3. ajhenglander

    ajhenglander New Member

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    Not sure of the total length of the existing chimney. I have a single story house, the chimney runs in the garage, below the garage floor where it is routed into the basement, chimney top is 3 feet above the roof line (not including the screen/cap). I do not have outside air piped to the wood stove. I can feel the air being drawn into the unit from the air inlet at the rear bottom of the wood stove. Not exactly sure what you mean by "appliances causing a negative in the house", are you referring to positive and negative pressure in the house? Nothing that I know of causing negative pressure, meaning pulling air away from the wood stove. The chimney was swept and ash pit cleaned out prior to installing new unit.
  4. savageactor7

    savageactor7 Minister of Fire

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    HUH? I'm thinking a fire that's burning that well should continue when the door is closed as well. If you can get through the curing process, which isn't always as easy as it sounds, I think you'll find a stove with an established bed of hot coal is a lot easier to manage….and of course it will burn with the door closed.

    In the unlikely probability you have a super insulated airtight home I suppose you could crack an outside window and observe the fire. If the fire, with the stove door closed only burns with a window open then you have an airtight house and will need an outside air kit for the stove to work properly.
  5. PunKid8888

    PunKid8888 New Member

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    not sure what your primary heat is but any furnace will cause a negative pressure both drawing air for the combustion and for the draft door. A cracked window near the stove will help establish the draft. Also you said you just lit the stove? most stove with a poor draft might require the door be open for the first 5 mins along with a cracked window to allow the wood to get fully lit, and establish some draft.

    I would have a few more fires in it, running longer each time till the stove is broke in. by then you probably figure out the best technique.
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    It is a better than even money bet that the problem is the chimney. From your description I can't draw a clue as to what that chimney is.

    1. Is if a masonry chimney with clay tiles lining it?

    2. What are the inside dimensions of the chimney?

    3. Does it come straight down from the top to the place where the stove pipe is connected to it in the basement or is there an offset of some sort?

    4. How is the stove pipe connected to the chimney?

    Any other details about the chimney will help us get ya going.
  7. dlpz

    dlpz New Member

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    Don't know if this will help but I had the same problem. This is my first year with that stove. I'd build a fire, get it going shut the door and it would go out. Here's what i found, once it was broken in, I'd really have to get my flue going, be it building a good top down fire or using a super cedar. I'd leave the door open a crack until the stove got to 300, shut the door and keep the air full open, the fire mellows out a little then shut the air till about the spring is an inch below the lip. This usually get's my stove up to 5-550 after 2 to 3 hours it climbs down to 300-400. I have trouble getting the illusive 10 burns some people talk about. I did have one but it hovered at 350 for all day. Still on the learning curve. My other observation is that it doesn't like small fires. Other than the first fire of the day, I load it up to what I think is alot but could hold more.

    The other thing is obviously make sure your wood is dry.
  8. Heem

    Heem New Member

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    ajh,

    I have the 13-NCH, your stoves little brother. I too just got it this year and had a heck of a time getting it going.

    The guys here on the forum suggested that the problem may be the wood, which I really thought was good and dried.

    I went out to my local garden center and bought a little bag of kiln-dried wood, which I could tell by the feel of it was REALLY dry - I found that this did burn right up, much better than the cordwood that I thought was nice and dry.

    What I do find, is that getting the fire started, I start with more kindling then I thought I would need, and a piece of the kiln dried. I DO have the leave the door open a crack - I think your door is similar to mine in which you can latch it but not lock it down all the way so air comes in. I leave it like this until I get the wood nice and burning.

    What I didn't realize was that once it's burning, you may find that the air intake is TOO MUCH air - I found that once the logs catch, but arent roaring yet, that the air intake tends to "blow out" the flames, and If I cut back to about 50% they will burn much better.
  9. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    I'm with Bart on this one. Does the chimney have a full liner? I have a Summit. Different manufacturer, but same type of stove and about the same size. With only 16 feet of lined chimney, mine drafts well right from the start. With a good bed of coals, it will burn some pretty sizzling wood too. I suspect the 30 is the same way.
  10. ajhenglander

    ajhenglander New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the quick input.

    BrotherBart, It is a masonry chimney with clay tile lining. Not sure on the inside dimension, will have to measure the rectangle inside the next time I am up there. It does come straight down, no offsets until it makes the 90 degree turn into the basement. From there it runs ~20 inches via stove pipe over the stove and then a 90 degree stove pipe turn down to the top of the stove. Stove pipe is slide into the clay inlet of the chimney in the block basement wall. I'm thinking (after doing a lot of reading last night) that I may need to put in a chimney liner. The existing rectangle chimney liner may be too large for the 6 inch stove exhaust.
  11. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    [quote author="ajhenglander" date="1230888229"]Not sure of the total length of the existing chimney. I have a single story house, the chimney runs in the garage, below the garage floor where it is routed into the basement, chimney top is 3 feet above the roof line (not including the screen/cap). Is the garage at basement level or ground level? Can you draw a picture of this? Sounds like there may be a long horizontal run that may not be pitched enough? Is is 6" or 8" or what size flue pipe? Is the garage conditioned space? May be a few things factoring in here, especially if a long run of cold pipe? Pipe type? single wall, double? Insulated?
  12. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Lining it is probably the best bet. For sure for the time being you are going to have to burn with the door cracked open for a good while to heat that chimney up to establish a draft.

    I had a Jotul in the basement venting just like yours into a very tall clay tiled chimney and couldn't ever get it to burn worth a damn. I lined the chimney and it now has a monster draft.
  13. Joe271828

    Joe271828 New Member

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    Just got the same burner that you have in the picture and noticed that if I had a big fire going then shut the door, the flame stays way up in the top inch or two of the wood burner. Was wondering if you checked the ceiling of the burner after you shut the door.

    Chimney goes up a foot of the black metal, the makes a 90 degree bend and ties into the the fireplace chimney (which is made of clay tile) which is about 2.5 feet away. The clay tile lined chimney goes up two stories (from basement to about 5 foot above house).

    I have since changed the way I start fires since I have a ton of dry twigs in barrels. It ends up with a small fire that fills up the box, but after 5 mins or so, builds up enough heat to get a nice clean burn and full heat in about 15 mins.

    Another note: when I shut the bottom control it does nearly stop the fire all together.
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