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2 BK Princess Insert or 2 Osburn 2200 insert

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by rook_ki, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    Newbie here. Been lurking, reading, and learning for a few weeks. I'm in central MA. I was thinking of purchasing 2 wood inserts. I've got 3 issues that I'm hoping this forum can help me.
    1. From a maintenance point, will operating be overwhelming? I mean, will I be a slave to the inserts.
    2. Does anyone know of a local contractor that can be recommended for the BKs? The closest dealer is 1.5 hrs away and he has no interest in travelling the distance for installation.
    3. Base on previous posts, the BK seems to be a better product in term of burn time and maintaining constant temperature. The BK is $3200/each. For about the same amount, I can have the Osburn installed. I do not mind paying extra if the BK is truly a better product. I'm on the fence. Can someone please give me a nudge one way or the other? Thank you.

    Rook

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  2. DodgyNomad

    DodgyNomad Member

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    Couple of questions. Are you going to be heating full time with both of them? If so, Is an outdoor stove or something else a possibility? How is your house setup? The BK is a great stove with very good performance and burn times, but keeping the house full of seasoned wood and loading, cleaning and maintaining 2 stoves by yourself would not be a first choice for me.

    I guess if you have your reasons for choosing this 2 stove combo vs. a boiler, etc.. a BK princess is going to be about as good a choice as any. I think it will be a lot of work though if both are operating much of the time. Also, which Osburn insert are you comparing the princess with?
  3. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Welcome to the forums Rookie
    How many square ft ? How many stories ? Are you insulated ? Do you have good dry wood already to go ? Where are the inserts to be located ( upstairs or downstairs ) ? These need to be answerd before I can say which stove is better. Blaze king and osburn are both good stoves but there are way more good stoves out there too. Once your square ft is established then it is much easier to give advice.

    Pete
  4. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Yes , I'm planning to use them full time. I looked into an OWB but can't because my neighbor is too close. I looked into an indoor wood boiler but I don't have a chimney in my basement. The Boss says no to putting in a chimney as it would ruin the aesthetic of her backyard :-( I'm thinking of the Osburn 2200 insert.

    3600 sq ft. 2 floors. Insulated but not well. House was built in 1978. I have access to dry woods. Both inserts would be down stair and both will be at the same end of the house. 1 will be in the front half of the house and the other will be in the back half. Exposed chimney.
  5. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Met with an installer this morning. $2250 for installation with material for both insert. He said because my stack is only 20' and 12x8, he's recommending to put the liner uninsulated for now. He cannot wrap insulation around the liner and have to pour the insulation half-way down the chimney if I want the liner insulated. He recommend I burn for about a year. If I need to insulate the liner in the future then he can take care of it for an additional $300-$400 per liner.

    Feedbacks are greatly appreciated.
  6. claybe

    claybe Member

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    Rook,
    I have a 3000 ft home. Put a princess downstairs and it didn't do the job. Moved it upstairs and the thing is incredible... You won't be disappointed! Our basement was cold and I didn't want to install another wood stove due to not having enough wood stocked up. Put a pellet in the basement and have had it burning the last week and it has worked out great to supplement the wood stove. I would recommend this set up because it has been easy to maintain both. Something to consider!!! I know both will be in the same level for you but it could be easier for you.
  7. Ablaze Tech

    Ablaze Tech New Member

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    Blaze Kings. Don't let the installer tell you he cant fit an insulated liner down an 8x12 flue. He just needs to knock out the tiles leaving plenty of room for an insulated liner. Install the stoves and liners right the first time.
  8. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Ablaze, knocking out the tiles, approximately how many tiles are we talking here? Is it from top to bottom of the chimney? When insulating the liner, should the entire liner be insulated? The contractor says that only the top half need to be insulated. Thank you for the help.
  9. Ablaze Tech

    Ablaze Tech New Member

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    Knock them from top to bottom and insulate the entire liner.
  10. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    I have a Jotul Oslo Upstairs and a BK in the basement ... So I feel qualified to respond to your question about "being a slave to your stove(s).

    I have had the Oslo for a few years now...the BK was installed last fall.

    Being a slave to your stove means the following to me:

    Whoops ... Slept in a bit this am, or didn't get home from town in time, or, or, or etc. I burn fir, and with the Oslo stuffed full I will usually have enough red hots left to get the fire going again after 8 - 10 hours. I have to restart the stove a lot!
    I am quite sure that the Osburn and most every other "burn tube" stove will work the same way.

    The BK has given me back my freedom! On a half load of fir---which is a little less that a full load in the Oslo---I simply don't even think about the stove going out and the house getting cold---it just has not happened.

    Actually, sometimes it is a pain! Eg. I check the stove 12 hours after reloading and have to turn the tstat up to burn the wood down more so that I have some room to reload! It's sometimes a pain ... But never a problem!

    BTW, I paid more for the Oslo than I did for the BK Chinook. Yes, the Oslo is a much nice looking unit ... But performance wise, it doesn't even come close to the Chinook...IMHO!!
  11. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Met with 2nd contractor today. Because there are 2 bends in my chimney, he said he has to use vermiculite mix insulation. He's planning to use 316 .006 stainless liner. The cost of material is twice as much as the 1st contractor. Is vermiculite better than the wrap insulation? Is the liner he's planning to use that much better than regular class a stainless steel liner? Is the double ii cost of material justify? Please help!!!
  12. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    That is a standard liner. There are liners that are better for wood that will cost more. So my point is that is basically the cheapest liner you can get. Using the vermiculite insulation, is fine, every chimney will be slightly different. But if it is 8x12 flues, most likely you can have them broken out and have enough room, even with bends, to fit a 6" liner with insulation in your chimney. I would get a second opinion about breaking out the flues. But it shouldn't be double the price. That liner will be very quick to install if he uses pour-in insulation, maybe just a couple of hours.
  13. claybe

    claybe Member

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    If you want two stoves the BK is the way to go. With two of the same stoves you will only need to know 1 stove and you can get on a 6 hour reload schedule with 12 hour burns off set 6 hours from each other. Keep us up to date and let us see some pictures.
  14. claybe

    claybe Member

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    Oh, where are you located? I did not insulate and have not had any problems. I would recommend trying without and see how it goes and the do the mix if needed.
  15. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    chimneylinerjames, which liner would you recommend? Can you please clarify "better"? In which way?

    claybe, I'm in central MA.
  16. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    After emailing the 1st contractor asking about insulating the liner, block-off plate, and Roxul, this is the reply I got.

    "There are many different manufacturers and grades of stainless liners. Home save pro, forever flex , and Simpson dura vent are the ones I use. The most common used is a 316 stainless in either .005 or .006. They also offer smooth wall systems and 304 gauge (over kill for your application). The system I had bid on was for a simpson or .006 Forever flex. As far as insulation is concerned the cost increase would be a additional $290 per liner . We would also have to remove all the existing clay tiles to accommodate the diameter , this would be an additional $275 per flue.

    If you choose to do the blanket rap it is 3 mil. which gives a 1/2 inch of ceramic fiber rapped around the liner. This is clamped in place and foil taped. Forever flex has a product where it is already inside the liner between a double y of stainless. They both offer their version of the rap and of the Portland - vermiculite blend. You have to use there product to up hold the listing and warranty. So in short using a different product from a different distributor is not a good idea .With the blanket you are bringing the system to a zero clearance to combustibles listing. The entire liner from the smoke chamber up gets done with the rap where as the poured start at the tile breech into the chamber. Bottom plates and shut off plates are different variables. A block of plate is put where the damper once was to reduce heat loss and prevent creosote from raining down on to the stove. In a full length application this is not needed nor required. A bottom plate is suppose to help seal the breach into the chamber so that the poured blend has a base on which to sit. This is never as easy as it sounds not does it guarantee a proper seal. This is why we go in from the side to ensure a stable foundation and full containment of the product. We would of course re brick the holes made. If temperatures and precipitation do not allow us to do so. We can install temporary clean out doors until the weather is as such."

    Can someone explain to me
    1. a zero clearance to combustibles listing. Is this a good/bad thing?
    2. Bottom plates and shut off plates
    3. Is he correct telling me that a block off is not needed?
    4. I thoiught I read on this forum that 1 inch of ceramic fiber should be use. Should I insist?
  17. A1Stoves.com

    A1Stoves.com Minister of Fire

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    this is not true, the blanket is required to install liner inside Zero clearance fireplaces in many cases.
    even insulated class a chimney needs 2" clearance to combustibles. I have had folks tell me two layers of foil backed insulation will give "zero clearance" to combustibles, but don't know if that has been tested or if they are talking out their rear ends.


    yes, 1/2" foil backed insulation is typical
    OldLumberKid likes this.
  18. claybe

    claybe Member

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    I think when he refers to the bottom plate he is referring to a block off plate. He talks like an administrator. A lot of words not much explanation. I would move on if you have options. As for "needing" a block off plate, no they are not needed but they help. You will need something to hold the roxul or other mix insulation in the chimney.
  19. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Yes I do have other option but I would like to understand what he is doing. I emailed him asking why he think a block-off plate isn't needed with my application and below is his reply.

    "A damper shut off plate is most commonly used when installing a free standing radiant heat appliance. the unit you are looking at is a circulating stove. It draws air in and moves it around the interior casing and delivers it back into the room. Minimal heat is lost up the chimney,and since we are insulating the system even less so. If we were only doing a by pass sleeve then it would be required to meet code.
    I am not against putting them in and if you would like them, I will gladly install them."

    Is he correct?
  20. cygnus

    cygnus Feeling the Heat

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    He gave an answer for a damper control to your question about a block off plate. I think he misread your message, you aren't in sync on the terminology or he doesn't know what you are talking about.

    In any case, the damper is not needed and neither is the block off but the latter is recommended.
  21. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    There are a few liners available.
    The standard 1 ply corrugated liner. That is what he is offering you.
    Then there is a 2 ply liner, the second ply is applied to make the inside perfectly smooth, better draft and less creosote build up.
    Heavy Flex/ Heavy wall, different manufactures call them different things. Basically this is a semi smooth flexible liner. It is HEAVY, very strong liner, but extremely heavy to work with.

    I would go with the middle option, a smooth inner wall liner, for a wood stove that is burned quite often. Smooth wall and light enough to work with. Unless you are planning on burning this stove 24/7, there isn't a great need for the heavy wall liner.

    Zero clearance is a good thing. He is correct in saying this. What he means to say is when the liner is installed with 1/2" of insulation, inside of a masonry chimney, the masonry has a zero clearance rating. Meaning you can have combustibles directly up to the outside of the chimney with no problems.
  22. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    Spoked with a 3rd contractor today and he's concern about the creosote since the BK Princess insert is a cat and my chimney is only 13 ft. He's concerned that the liner may not have enough draft. Has anyone run into this issue?

    He does not think I need insulation nor a block-off plate either because it's such a short run.
  23. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

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    Because of the short run, it should definitely be insulated. A warmer flue drafts better, and warmer gases won't condense on the inside of the liner. In reality, it's probably too short and will likely need an extension. These stoves run with a very cool flue temperature, and are very sensitive to draft. It is not as much of a creosote issue, it is more about satisfactory operation of the stove (with dry wood, of course). Speaking of that, the drier it is, the better. Really dry wood, along with adequate draft, let you take full advantage of the cat and thermostat for simple operation and really long burns.

    All the block off plate will do is prevent heat from going up the chimney and heating the outdoors instead of your home. Height of the flue doesn't matter there. I guess that is your choice.
  24. rook_ki

    rook_ki New Member

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    What's really confusing is all 3 local contractors are telling me similar things, no block-off plate and no insulation needed. The 3rd contractor came highly recommended too. Yet, I am getting different advices on this forum.

    The 3rd contractor told me that he has a friend with a cat stove with a 15' chimney run was getting creosote dripping down the chimney due to not enough draft.

    What's involve with getting an extension? Thank you.
  25. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    This could be solved by using insulation. Adding height to the chimney would help also, but I always install insulation on wood stove chimney liners. If you are concerned about draft, you should definitely insulate the chimney liner. This will keep your smoke warm and increase draft.

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