25-PDVC - Anyone Modify/Change Ignition System?

[live4soccer7]

I needed to get a few pellet stoves for a place I just got and I went with the 25PDVC because they are plentiful and seem to be quite robust for the most part. The one complaint is the ignition system on these. They are not reliable even on their best days.

I know the theory is that the igniter gets hot and then air passes through the tube, which is not superheated, contacts the pellets and they ignite. Well, that hardly happens on any of the stoves I have. I have cleaned and gone through the maintenance. Maybe I have old igniters, but still the system is quite flawed as I've even hooked up a long hose to the air inlet of the igniter tube and blown air through it to expedite the process as a test and while it helped a little it was still a failure in my opinion. Now if I were to set a pellet in the igniter hole and throw a few pellets on top of it, it will ignite with a few minutes. Direct contact works fantastically.

Why not simply make the igniter hole on the burn pot side just a little larger and poke the igniter through a mm or two?

What about an igniter like the ones in the quadrafire setups?

Any input would be awesome. I'm more than happy to try some stuff out and fabricate something to get this to be reliable and make some good posts/documentation on it for others.

Let me know what you guys have!

 

[rich2500]

Have you checked the adjustments on the igniters

 

[live4soccer7]

I would imagine you are referring to the positioning of the igniter. Yes, it is centered in the hole and I have tried it at 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" from the hole. Same results, very unreliable.

 

[rich2500]

Back when I had my pdvc it would ignite pretty reliably but igniters didn't last long so I gave up and lit it manually..

 

[live4soccer7]

It's just a terrible design. I think an old igniter, which still works just fine, loses a little of its "heat potency" and then no longer works with the atrocious ignition design they have.

I want to modify it in a way where it will light. The igniter in my stoves are plenty hot to light pellets, just not through their "air flow" design. Ideas or suggestions on using completely different igniters or modifying this setup to actually work. I have an amazing system I've adapted to this stove for full control remotely over a network or internet, but this is the complete weak link in the whole thing.

 

[Mt Bob]

It's just a terrible design. I think an old igniter, which still works just fine, loses a little of its "heat potency" and then no longer works with the atrocious ignition design they have.

I want to modify it in a way where it will light. The igniter in my stoves are plenty hot to light pellets, just not through their "air flow" design. Ideas or suggestions on using completely different igniters or modifying this setup to actually work. I have an amazing system I've adapted to this stove for full control remotely over a network or internet, but this is the complete weak link in the whole thing.

I recommend you call Mike at englands,he is an awsome tech guy,and may have some suggestions on this.

 

[live4soccer7]

I recommend you call Mike at englands,he is an awsome tech guy,and may have some suggestions on this.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not convinced that the ignition system on these will ever be that great. That is why I'm looking at different options/setups all together.

 

[amberg]

Have you checked the adjustments on the igniters

True, as I have 2 pdvc's that burn 24 hours a day every day, and burn over 9 tons a year, the igniter has to be close to the burn box hole or it will not lite. Also keep it cleaned out with a good ash vac. ( I highly recommend ) At least twice a week!!
Also clean the little Vac. hole to the right of the burn box. ( use vac at low pressure )

 

[live4soccer7]

I clean it every single day and it might run 12 hours a day.

 

[live4soccer7]

Any reason not to allow the igniter to poke through the hole maybe 1/8" to allow just a little contact? I'd imagine one could drill the hole out a little larger than the igniter itself so you could mount it in a way that it would barely stick through the hole and also not be touching the housing itself.

 

[MadMax31]

My igniter works maybe 1 out of 10-15 times. Just press go and wait 2 minutes, then I hit the small pile with my clicker torch.

I played with the idea of using the gel and letting the igniter do its thing, but usually it will time out before it actually ignites.

 

[bill3rail]

My igniter has missed maybe 10 light ups out of thousands! Most of the time, I throw a small handful of pellets into the burn pot just so it starts quicker, but many times I do not.

Very reliable start up! If it did not reliably start, my wife would have gone out and bought a different brand of stove!

Bill

 

[Tails1]

Other users of these stoves have modified their burn pots to improve performance, perhaps doing this could help also?

 

[doghouse]

I clean it every single day and it might run 12 hours a day.

Curious : Why only 12 hours a day?

 

[funflyer]

After reading this thread, I asked a friend with a 25-pdvc if he had any startup issues with his stove. He said it's shut down and restarted about every three days and he has only had it fail to light maybe three or four times since October but never when he manually piles pellets over the igniter hole. The igniter is two seasons old and the original one that came with the stove.

 

[live4soccer7]

For those that don't have igniter issues, I have a couple questions.

The Air intake pipe for the igniter tube, is there anything attached to it? It seems they have done a few different things over the years. On they just have the stub pipe coming right off the tube for air, then they moved to adding a silicone hose to that with a hardpipe attached to it, and I think lastly they piped it down in to the actual stove air intake right below the lower auger motor. Let me know.

Is the igniter you are using an offbrand, OEM or what? I'm sure there are a couple things that could make a HUGE difference in the success of a light and that will be the amount of heat the igniter puts off and the pellets themselves as well, assuming the stove is in good working order otherwise.

I'd like to get to the bottom of this as I know I'm not the only one with issues on ignition. I have people who run a whitfield and quadra fire and have NEVER had an issue with ignition. In fact, they've never had the stove not light. They are using the same pellets I am. To me, it says that the 25pdvc ignition system is inferior by quite a bit. Englander knows it too or they wouldn't keep trying to make small modifications to improve it over the years.

 

[Tails1]

Mine has a small air intake hole at the back of the igniter tube. It isn't connected to anything. Air is pulled in this and drawn past the igniter element which super heats the air. 99% of the time it works. If the stove fails to light and the pellets are smoking, smoke actually back drafts out this small hole into the back of the stove and out into the room. Bad design imo. In the spring I am going to tap this hole and install a barb fitting and a hose to the air intake pipe, this way smoke cannot enter the room. This igniter setup depends on the stove creating sufficient vacuum in the firebox to pull enough air fast enough past the igniter and into the burn pot.

One could try enlarging this small air intake hole slightly by drilling it out and see if that helps, it wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[Tails1]

For those that don't have igniter issues, I have a couple questions.

The Air intake pipe for the igniter tube, is there anything attached to it? It seems they have done a few different things over the years. On they just have the stub pipe coming right off the tube for air, then they moved to adding a silicone hose to that with a hardpipe attached to it, and I think lastly they piped it down in to the actual stove air intake right below the lower auger motor. Let me know.

Is the igniter you are using an offbrand, OEM or what? I'm sure there are a couple things that could make a HUGE difference in the success of a light and that will be the amount of heat the igniter puts off and the pellets themselves as well, assuming the stove is in good working order otherwise.

I'd like to get to the bottom of this as I know I'm not the only one with issues on ignition. I have people who run a whitfield and quadra fire and have NEVER had an issue with ignition. In fact, they've never had the stove not light. They are using the same pellets I am. To me, it says that the 25pdvc ignition system is inferior by quite a bit. Englander knows it too or they wouldn't keep trying to make small modifications to improve it over the years.

Those stoves imo have a weak vacuum to begin with and I think that perhaps the issue is not enough air is getting pulled fast enough past the element and into the burn pot.

You can also bench test the igniter by connecting it directly to AC temporary. It should get red hot fast. Also I would meter the voltage from the stove controller and check the igniter is getting enough voltage as well.

 

[live4soccer7]

I combat the comment about enough air passing past the element I did a test the other night. I hooked up a longer hose to the small intake tube on the igniter tube and I sat there and blew air through for over 10 minutes and it did nothing.

I know the igniter is hot. I can see it glowing red.

Does the igniter actually take 120vAC or is the igniter designed for a different voltage or DC? I'd be curious to know what the specs on the igniter are. I did see on it that it said 300W, but that's about it.