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511 KWH on the last electric bill. Can you beat that?

Post in 'The Green Room' started by Sandor, Jun 15, 2007.

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  1. littlesmokey

    littlesmokey Minister of Fire

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    Well, I get it now, my electrical use is different than his, right? I think my conservation without spending thousands and hiding behind a tax credit, is better than being a sneak thief. If we turned you out and you want to be smug and holier than thou, good for you. Sit on the park bench in Venice with your cardboard sign that says, "I'm better than you cause I work the system and only give half the information". Thanks, marked your ID.



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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    No need for personal attacks. The bottom line is that Brandy's NET consumption is negative. They are not paying an electrical bill, instead they are feeding the grid and getting a payback. As much as I'd like to be making that same statement I can't. Though I do plan on getting a solar array once thinfilm panels become easily available. We need a lot more folks like this investing in the future if the goal is US energy independence. My hat's off to them.
  3. littlesmokey

    littlesmokey Minister of Fire

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    BeGreen,
    Sorry about the roast. It just makes me a little angry when you ask for information and basically treated like you are not worthy of a reply. Kilted might be a great conservationist, but he might also be like Al Gore and his watt burning castle and claiming carbon neutral because he bought some stock. Either you use it or you don't, where it comes from is only part of the answer. I think this thread is about the very real conservation of a resource and the reduction in our dependence on outside resources.

    Sometimes I get a little sarcastic, and I apologize.
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps it's not intentional. Kilted is not a frequent poster. Lots of people have a life outside of Hearth.com and only check on posts occasionally. It's also possible that Kilted is pretty conservative with electrical consumption so I wouldn't jump to conclusions.
  5. Kilted

    Kilted Member

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    Well it looks like I stirred things up a bit here. Thank you BeGreen for the kind words. And yes I do have a life elsewhere. I like hearth.com it has a good format with lots of posters and a nice variety of opinions and posters.

    I suppose I should not have stayed away so long after dropping that little tweaker. Sorry Littlesmokey for not being more forth coming with information. I have had to re-learn many times that not every one shares the same intensity of interest that I have for some things. One of the things I’ve learned is that many folks are not conservationists; I would not call my self one. While solar electric is a passion for some it’s a yawn for most others.

    So out of self-defense I do not post a detailed message, when I have, I get little to no response, which annoys me. So I drop in a teaser, that way if there is interest some one will step up if not I’ve not wasted half an hour.

    Now to answer some questions, I’ll not repeat all the technical details those are in the other thread. Well I live in California, no wife, no kids; I have been in this house 24 years, and have a good job.

    This house compared to one of your houses in the North East is like a cracker box, but hey its CA and it was built in the 1950’s. So far, I have rewired it, replaced all the windows with thermo-panes, I have some very large windows that are now low-e glass, the house has been insulated, as much roof treatment as possible has been done without replacing it, epa fireplace insert. When I moved in, in the middle of summer you could put your hand on the ceiling and feel the heat pour in. The temp would get up 110F inside when it was 80F outside; the house now averages 10-15 up to 20 degrees BELOW the outside summer temp. Last July I saw 100+ outside and 80 inside, did not last long. In the winter the furnace would run for hours to bring up the temp. Put wood in the fireplace and the furnace would come on, yea you know the routine.

    So I made some changes. A few years ago when CA were have the power outages I became very annoyed when I came home from a business trip and found my freezer had melted down AGAIN this was about 2000, round about that time I heard about Solar Panels (Photo Voltaic), grid tie, and battery systems. My greatest source of info was www.homepower.com. So I made some more changes.

    A bit later a friend decided I needed to see some electric cars. His car club was going down to Watsonville, CA to see the Corbin Sparrow. I liked the idea but the Sparrow was not the car for me. A few months later I saw one of the few advertisements for the Toyota Rav4EV. I decided I could live with it and it could replace my Ford Ranger truck, which was becoming a PITA. So I made some more changes.

    I gave up my traveling job a few years ago and have been fixing my house up and came to the conclusion that the old insert has to go, so I replaced it with a Avalon Perfect-Fit. It was round about that time I found hearth.com. I drop in about once a month to see what’s happening. Along with the wood stove I bought a new electric chain saw and wood splitter, so I could grab some of the freebies.

    Enough of the biography:
    My energy usage on the house about 16kwh per day. I normally read the power meter mornings and at night, I have done this for about 5 years now. The car uses about 360 watts per mile, I drive about 10,000 miles a year or about 3,600kwh per year. My cost for my power varies depends how you want to calculate it. My truck got 17 mpg the same 10k miles = 588 gals, average cost of gasoline in CA was about $2.25 per gallon, for $1323. I installed 2.2kw of solar specifically to supply power for the Rav4EV, my cost for the panels after rebates $4,700, so / 1323 = 3.6 years the panels paid for themselves JUST by the avoided cost of gasoline. Calculated this way I’m now driving free. OR approx. $0.02per KWH amortized cost of the solar system over 30 years.

    Rebates and things;
    Yes CA had some nice rebates for the solar and the car and I’m happy to take them, SO you think the petroleum companies do not get rebates. To check on incentives for your state go here; http://www.dsireusa.org/.

    As I always recommended you need to do your own research. The Internet for me has been a life savor. I now get 90% of my information from it, caveat as you know just because it’s on the internet does not mean its true, know your sources.

    OK, now my cost’s for installing all of this stuff was high. I can also tell you that it works wonderfully well. What a way to stick it to Big Oil, OPEC, and Power utility all at the same time. I cannot tell you how good that feels.

    PIC soap box;
    Littlesmokey, sorry I’m going to pick on you a little bit now. You seem to have gotten a bit worked up over all of this. So how about directing some of that energy at you federal and state legislators. There should be a nation E-net metering law, there should be more funds directed to renewable research, there should rebate programs to get new technology off of the ground. Example: Google has just commissioned a 1.6mw solar system at the Mountain View GooglePlex http://www.google.org/recharge/. So Google has been working on this project for a year or so, I have had my solar panels in long before Google thought of it. Google is now interested in plug-in hybrids, I had my car long before Google was interested, (Google now has two Rav4EV’s they purchased used). All of this became possible because there were enough rebates from CA to get people like me interested to buy and helped create a market. Felix Cramer (calcars.org) spoke at our EAASV.org meeting when he first came up with the idea of a plug-in hybrid conversion. Dr. Andy Frank at UC Davis did the pioneering work. Felix seen the work and worked with the Yahoo Prius user group and came up with idea when it was noticed the European versions had an “ev” switch. Again before Google was interested there has been a lot of work to get Google to step up. And the GooglePlex is 3-miles from my house.

    So who is willing to put their money on the line? Who is willing to write their state representatives and congressmen to vote for renewables? I can tell you from my own experience even what I paid is about 2x to expensive. But I put my money into the hardware and life style changes it took.

    I still do not consider myself as a conservationist, just the way I live.

    PIC soap box closed.

    Continued ..
  6. Kilted

    Kilted Member

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    Do you have Time-of-Use metering? Using a setup similar to; http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/7084/ . Add a timer and then you load shift electricity usage from peak to off peak hours. My brother in Wisconsin he does this in the summer, works great. It would take a wattmeter to find the running loads and from that you can work out the battery size. If any one wants to do this let me know and I’ll help size the system. In this case remember ebay is your friend other wise it could get pricey and not worthwhile. Web search for the rest of the system parts.

    Bye for now. -- Brandy
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Awesome, thanks for the detailed post Brandy. It goes to show that given the proper incentives, one can significantly reduce carbon emissions and actually have a better life with an improved bottom line. A lot of businesses have found this out too. Multiply the changes that you've made times the thousands of households in CA and there is a significant impact. That's why I'm certain this is presently the single best energy program for the country.

    A couple questions, is your solar system straight grid-tie or do you have a battery backup? How many miles on the RAV4 now? Have you replaced the batteries? Any other major maintenance on it?
  8. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Kilted, Littlesmokey is new around here, so I'm not sure why he's getting so worked up. I recall your previous excellent posts last year, with gobs of info, and appreciate your effort in alternative energy. Just for the record, I'd say most of us here at hearthnet, with an interest in the Green Room, do as well.

    Seven years ago, I also lived about 3 miles from Google. I lived in a nice little townhouse (#10 of 10) on Rock Street, sandwiched between two crackerbox apt complexes, maybe you know of it. It was a street or two over from Charleston and less than one mile east of Sun Microsystems. Do you live close to there? I don't remember seeing any massive PV systems around my neighborhood and I biked around there a lot. Maybe you live 3 miles east of Google? Down near Moffit Field? Or perhaps 3 miles south in Los Altos (gasp)! Talk about high priced cracker boxes! 8-/ I also lived on Mariposa, within spitting distance of El Camino, and did a daily bike ride up through Los Altos (El Monte street to Page Mill). That would also be about 3 miles south of Google on Shoreline. There's some nice, older homes there in Old Mountain View, on either side of the main drag. I kind of miss that area. Loved biking down to the local downtown farmers market on Saturdays.

    Man, I am jealous of your system! Here in Missouri we have no net metering law, no state incentives, and no hope for the near future unless hades freezes over, but good lord, the real estate prices are good, even before the crunch! Energy saving combat in Missouri amounts to sniffing out unused appliance transformers, turning off unused devices, adjusting the thermostat, educating the wife and m-n-l (even as they roll their eyes), and burning wood, which is how I found hearthnet.

    I long for PV panels, but like you, BG, and castiron, I feel they are still over priced and beyond the reach of mortal beings without institutional help. I have high hopes for the thinfilm work being done, but worry a bit about by-products, but I guess they can be dealt with at least as well as those from burning oil, coal, and splitting atoms. :ahhh: And I'll bet the independence "feeling" factor of PV is off the charts, as you suggest.

    I've never even ridden in an electric auto, or known anyone who owned one, save my neighbor's kid with a John Deer electric kiddy car, which the little tyke refused to allow me to operate. :-/

    Don't be a stranger. Lots more friendly folks here than curmudgeons who read and post regularly. I personally am interested in the hidden costs of PV systems including maintenance, etc. You know, the total cost of ownership thing. Hope to see more of you around here. Winter's just around the corner.

    BTW: does your insert have a convection fan? Do you use it? And do you find you tend to be less electric usage conscious or more now that you have "free electricity" coming from the roof? :lol:
  9. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I bought one of those meters you recommended. I discovered I should be glowing in the dark and immediately replaced my radon fan. It took two months, maybe more, but the levels finally went down below 4 pc/l.

    Right now, the worst place in the house (unfinished portion of basement) is reading 1.5 Long and 1.7 short. Yesterday the short was 1.6 pc/l, so I decided I'd install a cheap timer on the fan, which I did. The fan will now run from 2am to 2pm, which should be the coolest part of the day in the attic, where the fan is installed, which hopefully will lengthen the life of my fan, too.

    So far, so good. I'll keep an eye on it and post what happens.

    I wonder if I could have gotten by with a smaller fan, but since this is a ranch, and a pretty big one, with a pretty big slab, and the mitigation system all the way to one side, I thought I'd better be safe than sorry. If the timer works, my fan essentially goes from 75 watts to 37.5 watts, and I still get the turbo suction that is probably needed for this big slab. If the radon level starts rising, at least I know I didn't waste my money on the bigger fan. :coolsmile:

    On a side note, when my roof was replaced, they changed the radon PVC stack and cap with a simple lead stack outer liner that had NO cap. I called a radon guy and he said that is EPA spec: NO CAP ALLOWED. Not sure if he's right, but not 6 months after the cap was removed, my fan crapped out. When I inspected it, it was full of leaves and some really rank traces of funky water. So I put a cap back on there. I'm convinced it doesn't impede the operation and increases fan life, even though these are sealed fans.
  10. jjbaer

    jjbaer New Member

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    Litttlesmokey,

    Hope you were kidding a bit....while I was serious about the way he only gives "half the info" thus causing people to question him, I don't think you should add him to your ignore button....LOL....my point is that all his posts are like that.....he enjoys having people have to come back and question his numbers at which point he's like Paul Harvey with "and now, the rest of the story"....LOL....just gotta get used to it and expect it next time.....

    Also, if I could get the subsidized deal folks in CA get, I'd probably try and go that route too but it just isn't (economically) there yet for 95% of the nation.......
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Prolly closer to 30% of the nation can get subsidies, (CA is over 12% of the US population alone). AL, AR, CO, IA, MN, NY (especially Long Island), OR, TX, UT, WA, & WI have similar incentives. And many other states have solar electric net metering. Like with so many other issues, the states aren't waiting for the fed to get off its arse. If your state doesn't have a good solar rebate program, push them for it. This should be available to 100% of the nation.

    http://www.solarelectricpower.org/index.php?page=utility
  12. littlesmokey

    littlesmokey Minister of Fire

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    Cast Iron:
    Sometimes my very direct, no holding back irritates some. I can be sarcastic when irritated, but I don't think I was worked up. I just don't like drive byes. This is a forum to share information not to tease to see if we are worthy of being told the glad tidings. Get enough of that crap from the new multi-millionaires I do work for and complain I'm over charging. I know kilts ID, won't ignore him, but I've got his message, there's nothing I could share with him that would be of benefit to him. I don't intend to be a forum pest or a problem. Think I have learned a great deal in the months I have lurked. Think there are some great minds with lots of passion and feeling about doing the right thing. I find the closet conservationists, like me, are strongly committed. Some are motivated to save money but get a lot of gratification about being successful.

    I've seen some of your posts and some of Elks, and others that would shrink the mighty warriors. While we all have other things in our lives, when winter is 8 months, it doesn't give much time to think of sandy beaches and I am making some changes in my heating needs, so picking great minds is something I will find time to do.

    I belong to several other forums, I spend about an hour at the keyboard each day, it's like going to the diner for coffee, but some I only cruse by and others I take a break at. Sometimes in the evening the Internet is better than anything on the tube, so there is some extra time, but I don't think anyone on this forum has an issue with a life beyond the Hearth, except maybe the Web-Master, for obvious reasons.

    BeGreen:
    Just forewarning, if I get heated and really worked up, I suspect you will get very active with the delete and edit keys. I guess I can claim artists rights to passion. BTW, I am trying to figure out how to post my location. Going to work on that after I submit this. It should be the right side of the Tetons, but only those West of Jackson will understand.
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    LS, passion is fine, I encourage it, as long as it is respectful of others. It's really rare that any of the mods have to use the delete option. Overall, this is a pretty special group of folks.

    Your location worked out fine. Anywhere near Driggs? Nice country in the hills there.
  14. Kilted

    Kilted Member

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    BeGreen – Thank you

    My solar is grid tie with battery back up. System is Beacon Power M5 5-kw grid tie inverter; http://www.beaconpower.com/products/SolarInverterSystems/index.htm with eight 12v 250A 8D deep cycle batteries for 500amps at 48v. Which is enough to keep the house running over night until the sun comes up the next day. http://www.concordebattery.com/xtender_main.php , battery; PVX-2580L (PDF) . Battery rack; BR88D http://www.2seas.com/prodSelection.php?prodCategory=Battery&style=Original Battery Racks it comes with a cover and the batteries in the picture look like mine.

    The solar arrays are 40 SP-75-watt panels for 3 kw and 12 Sharp 185A for 2.2kw. Over the course of the year I generate approx 5,200kwh of electricity. I am on PG&E TOU E7 rate. Time Of Use (TOU) has two periods peak 12noon-6pm M-F, and off peak all other times. During peak electricity is priced at approx. $0.32 kwh buying or selling. So I endeavor to only sell during peak time.

    The Rav4EV has about 45,000 miles on it. No I have not had to change the batteries. Major maintenance; I replaced the tires. I’m sure everyone here is really curious about the batteries as the OEM’s Toyota included all claim that the batteries are not ready. Well that falls between out right lie with a bit of truth. I would say an out right lie. The batteries in my car provide a range of approx 100 miles using my lead foot and air conditioning. OEM’s say that is not enough range people want 300 miles. Well my truck average 250-275 miles between fill ups. What I NEED is 30 miles daily with the option of doing 60-80 running errands on weekends. Right after I picked up the car I did 120 miles one Saturday by stopping at all the stores that had public charging and charged while I was in the store.

    OEMs say that people will not put up with 5 hour charging. Well my routine is I plug in the night before and the 20-30 miles I used the previous day has been replenished before I go to work. The charger is a 6kw charger and charges at a rate of 15 miles-per-hour.

    OEMs say the batteries do not last long enough and are too expensive to replace. Well this is were Toyota really steped on their own toes. The batteries in the Rav4EV are Panasonic large format NiMH and were some of the best produced for that generation. Several of our club members have passed the 100k-mile marker. SCE has run an accelerated life test and have over 120k miles. There have indeed been some cell failures and the repairs have been costly and painful for some the failures that I know of are less than 10% of the fleet of 500. The primary pack failure has been caused by cell imbalance. Imbalanc primary cause is not letting the Battery Management System (BMS) do a complete equalization, by running the pack through a long cycle of forced equalizations the will come back to life, this is user abuse. There have been three report cell failures I know of. The other problem is to much heat. Heat caused by operation no user control and heat caused in charging, which is under user control. The last 6% of charge causes 80% of the overheating. Since the car is equipped with a timer it is easy to cut off the charge, BUT you do have to remember to allow the BMS to equalize the pack. I just had my pack checked and it is still perfectly balance at 6-milliohms (like new) per battery there are 24 –12v batteries. It looks like I can get 120k+ miles.

    This is were Toyota is right, the pack maintenance is currently a black art. Cost to repair is high, a failure rate of 10% would be a deal breaker when dealing in 100k’s or millions of units. Our group is very responsive and responsible EV friendly group and we still have trouble. The only way I know of to fix this is to build more so the bugs can be worked out!!

    For all things Rav4EV related go here; http://evnut.com/ left panel Rav4EV then there is a menu selection across the top, go to batteries and there are Lots and Lots of details and pictures. Darrell is known in our group as the go to guy for the web site, and he is a very nice person!

    Other major maintenance: I have a cracked heated windshield. This I will need get taken care of this summer; it will cost me $500.

    MoHeat;
    Check below; 1/1/2008 is your magic date for the freeze over. Start planning now and start looking for an installer. Since you have the wife and m-n-l problem TOU may not work for you. Just being able the knock some of it off would be nice.
    http://www.dsireusa.org/library/inc...Code=MO07R&state=MO&CurrentPageID=1&RE=1&EE=1

    Lets see Rock Street is about 1.5 mile from my house. And you’re right seven years ago there were almost no solar panel installation. Google’s solar system just went in this year. My system went active November 2001. You see a lot of them now. The industry has grown a lot in the last five years. Check out Nanosolar. If they are successful expect the price to drop in half for solar power. http://www.nanosolar.com/

    Fireplace insert. Yes it does have a circulating fan. Since it is flush mount to the chimney it needs the fan to push the heat out.

    As for electrical usage I’m both. I am acutely aware how much electricity I use and I endeavor to nt be wasteful. The last TV I bought was an LCD cause it use less electricity, I use cfls for general lighting and halogens for task lighting. When I’m home I’ll have three computers and a TV running. When I’m gone lights turn on/off by themselves. So it’s a mixed bag.
  15. Kilted

    Kilted Member

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    System maintenance. If you are grid tied only no batteries, installed it and forget it, the solar requires less maintenance than a TV. With batteries there is more. First there is some efficiency loss the Beacon Power M5 / M5+ has less loss than Xantrex or Outback because of system design. I used sealed agm batteries, no watering etc. but you still need to do a yearly load check, check terminals etc. Load check I switch off the grid to the inverter on Friday night checked the pack voltage and then leave until Saturday morning. I have 500a * 48v = 24kwh. I know the house uses 7-9 kwh over night this about 40% and the pack voltage should be above 48.8v, and then I see how long it takes to recharge the pack. The last grid outage here was for 8 hours. Everything I needed worked fine.

    I have also decided to go with portable air conditioners as they run off of 120 and I can run one from battery if I have to.

    And like I mentioned above even though I was able to afford all of this it is still 2x to expensive and with all the rebates that puts it closer to the 3-4x. So I agree with your price wag. Actually the ‘house’ could afford the solar, do to the crazy CA real estate market. So far the ‘house’ has paid for all of its own upgrade’s, it just lets me live here!!!

    -- Brandy
  16. jjbaer

    jjbaer New Member

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    Kilted,

    never said I didn't enjoy your FULL responses, in fact, as a mechanical engineer I thoroughly enjoyed them!! I know you don't like to write volumes unless someone asks for them first BUT..... in the future, instead of saying "your last months bill was $-55.28" please use this instead "your last months bill was $-55.28 BECAUSE you have 5KW of solar"....then we can begin with "tell us more" instead of questioning your figures. Bottom line: I think it's SUPER you're able to do this and when I re-read your earlier post, I knew what set-up you had.

    Question: saw an article on parts of CA banning fireplaces.....1) how does that affect you and 2) is this fireplaces or all WB stoves?



    thanks
  17. littlesmokey

    littlesmokey Minister of Fire

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    You know the right side!?!? I'm south a few valleys and lost of irrigated fields. Go over the hill a few times a month, but find the traffic too much like a city. Costs too much to climb to Victor and take the giant slide to JH, so I do the Alpine route. [To all of you who don't know this country, tough. Thirty miles driving gives you a whole new eco-system and views and vistas no where else in the world. Eat your hearts out]
  18. jjbaer

    jjbaer New Member

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    I knew that however, it also has to do with affordability......makes no difference if CA were to offset even more than what it does now, if half the people still can't afford to shell-out their portion........same with other states....Example: say a $35K system is reduced to $15K through offsets....people still have to come-up with the $15K.....so.....using that logic, solar is still outside the affordability range of 95% of the country. Want proof...here it is: 95% of the country doesn't have solar.......if it were affordable they would.....that's all I'm saying. Bottom line: solar AIN'T ready for "prime time" yet............LOL
  19. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    Mo, at least the electronic radon meters eliminate the guesswork - we hope.
    I'm not that sure the method of discharge is that critical, just that it gets out of the house where it concentrates.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Gotcha. It's the reason we haven't invested in solar yet also. In WA state, in order to get the subsidy the components have to be made in WA state. Catch 22 is that currently there aren't any solar panels made in WA state. Hopefully there will be soon. There is a grid-tie inverter is made here and that qualifies.

    But it will take more than the cost drop. It will take a shift in national thinking first. I don't think the number one obstacle is cost, I think it's mindset. No one is pushing conservation seriously at the federal level. Cost now is typically about $15-20k, assuming one is going for straight grid tie and not battery backed up. That's a lot of money, agreed, but if it were sold like the all American SUV or truck as the greatest and most patriotic thing you can do for the country, they'd be moving very briskly. Especially in the numerous states that offer net metering benefits. If incentives bring the cost down to a 5 year payback, the system becomes very attractive even at today's prices.

    Capacity: Currently there isn't manufacturing capacity to supply a rapid increase in demand. We need major new plants and many of them. The good news is that the first plants in the US should be coming online next year. Honda came online in Japan this year.

    Efficiency and Cost: You touched on this in an earlier post and are totally correct. Silicon solar cells are expensive. However, thin film solar has the promise to make a major dent in prices. They can generate more power at a lower cost. The goal is a 35% total system cost reduction, while increasing efficiency. By lowering the cost one can afford more panels. As a thin film, they have the promise of becoming an affordable roofing material. This will go a long way towards increasing usage. When you go for a roof do you want a $10k shingle roof or a $12K solar roof, that's 30% subsidized and will pay itself back in a few years? Honda has jumped into this market and is promising a 50% reduction in the cost of panels.

    Location: For some folks, their property is never going to be appropriate for solar. But with higher efficiency panels the range of cost effective installations will grow significantly.

    Solar will probably never even reach 50% of the nations homes and that's ok. If just 15% of the nation changed to solar, it would make a huge difference, especially if coupled to an energy conservation program. But as previously noted, few are thinking conservation yet. America needs to regain it's appreciation of frugality as one of the values the country was founded on.
  21. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Wow, thanks for that link. I guess I'll have to stop pronouncing my state name Miz' - er - ee, but I can see the deck is stacked in favor of the power company.

    Hmmm. They get to count any private installations against mandated green power goals, they sell at retail and refund PV (or other) producers at "utility's avoided cost rate" (whatever that is, and it could be almost anything with a little cost accounting razzle dazzle), if your meter isn't capable of supporting net metering then the customer has to pay to replace it, they are only required to accept applicants until aggregate capacity reaches 1% of the previous year's single hour peak load, and they arbitrarily stop net metering payments when 5% of last year's single hour peak load is reached (or they claim it is).

    But what the hey? It's better than nothing.

    Nanosolar: Again, wow. Lots of good news for that company. I'm almost surprised that Google went ahead with the silicone (I'm assuming) installation, but I guess it might be a couple more years before NanoSolar starts meaningful production. The CNN video is cool, but it stopped abruptly after about 5 minutes, during two play attempts. That might be about all of it, but I'm not sure. It would indeed be cool to have a dual function roof instead of essentially one and a half roofs, one roof for rain and another half roof of solar panels. The price of the roof would essentially be subsidizing the PV install. That is cool. Especially if you are just about in need of a new roof.

    Brandy, Care to share where you're working around there? What you do for a living? There's nothing in your bio.

    Sandoor, I was bragging too soon. I received my next electric bill yesterday and I consumed 1349 kWh's last month. Dang! This month has some serous Missouri A/C usage on it. $119.29 makes it just under $0.09 / kWh, but like I said, I've got the radon fan running 1/2 has much now, two computers are being shut down when not in use, and Mrs. Mo Heat is still promising to decommission one of our 3 refrigerators (jeeze!) as I think I've finally convinced her that not everyone at Mo Heat Manor needs their own personal refrigerator.
  22. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    If it's any consolation Mo, we just got our water bill. It's higher than your electric bill. The gardens are dry and didn't get the usual spring rains.
  23. Kilted

    Kilted Member

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  24. jjbaer

    jjbaer New Member

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    Loc:
    OH
    It's a start.....two gotchas though: 1) you the customer must pay for the new meter it will require as stated above by another poster and 2) it's not a direct 1 for 1 offset since they only pay you the "utility avoided cost" when you sell to them. When a utility generates energy, there's a "generation cost" which is stuff such as fuel, etc., and then there's a "transmission cost". Where I live (Ohio) the two costs are similar: I pay 10 cents/KW-hr.... about 5 cents for power generation and about 5 cents for transmission cost. When you sell to a power company, most will only give you the 5 cents it costs them to generate the power and not the 5 cents transmission cost and this is what they mean by the "utility avoided cost"....but again, it's a start. Bottom line: you'd have to generate about twice the number of KW-hrs you use to completely offset your bill but again, it's a good start for someone who might be doing it anyway and it could mean the difference for a person for whom it's marginal anyway..........
  25. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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