All night burn-what's the trick?

[Adios Pantalones]

Also check seals with the dollar bill trick. Tall chimney may cause lots of draft- some here will suggest a pipe damper.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Dear Skinny...you live in a cold climate compared to some of these other guys.
Your call for heat is great.
You best option is to get the dryest hardwood you can find.
How many square heat are you trying to heat and what is the btu output of your stove?

FratFart...
ludicrous!= the dryer the wood the faster it burns.

CK say's

Oh contrare .....the less water you have in the wood the more btu's it will generate...vs....wetter wood will make less btu's.

Setting drafts may be the issue but it is not by burning dry wood.
If the stove has some sort of automatic draft control,having dry wood will allow the damper to cycle vs with wet wood not being capable as per physics to generate the 8000 btu's per lb will make that init call for heat more often causing the wood to burn faster.

If you need a Magic Heat heat-a-lator to recover heats from your flue gas temps your sawdust burner is not very efficient.A good appliance would have already reclaimed all of the heats available only letting the heat nessesary to create a good draft.

Some time folks let their common sense get in the way of what rules of physics will dictate.

 

[Danno77]

I just wondered how tightly one could pack their stove, and also, how tightly you are packing your stove. I wonder if it would be beneficial to make a simulated firebox out of 2x2s or something cheap, and then packing in your next load and being able to experiment with the pieces before actually throwing them into the stove. I think it would really help to get a good East-West orientation for the filled box, and a nicely packed one at that. do you have a damper on the stove pipe? Seems like <7 hours is a short burn for that stove from what I see on their website.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Well FatFart he can listen to you and fill up his flue with creosote and potentially burn down his home. I suppose it's that guys option.

 

[Wet1]

I wonder if it would be beneficial to make a simulated firebox out of 2x2s or something cheap, and then packing in your next load and being able to experiment with the pieces before actually throwing them into the stove.

Now that would be talking anal to a new level!

 

[Danno77]

Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that's been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace. If I wanted a fire to last all night long, then I would toss a heavy wet round on the hot fire that was already going and when I'd wake up in the morning there it'd be, just barely left and glowing away waiting on the dry stuff to start it up again. I didn't get any impressive BTUs that way, I'm sure, because the energy was all spent drying the moisture out of the wood, but if the ONLY goal is a long burn, then wetter wood will win, IMO. doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it'll work (unless your chimney gets so much creasote that it catches on fire, or your neighbors drag you into the street in the night because they are are hacking on your smoke)

 

[Danno77]

y hate to admit the truth?

No, I hate to admit that there are any benefits to burning wet wood.

Anyway, Anal would be if I told him not only to practice on the wooden firebox for fitting, but if I told him only to use Hickory or white oak or something and discard any stacked batch that wasn't <20% moisture and didn't hit at least 50lbs.

 

[River19]

Spent the second week with our new Jotul F3 and I was able to wake up each morning after 6-7 hours of sleep to find enough coals to rekindle the fire and I only had the firebox 50-60% packed with 3 logs (one 50% burnt and the other two within 30mins of going to bed). Loaded the logs, closed the damper and went to bed.

Got up at 6am to go hunting, moved the remnants around, tossed in a small ball of paper, a couple pieces of kindling and within 5mins I had a new log in and a fire going……….

What am I missing here?

 

[CrappieKeith]

here's what the original post was....
So as I learn this new Jotul, I have been trying to achieve an all night burn. More than once I have loaded the fire box as much wood as I can, splits a little bigger in size. Once I have shut the air down all the way and let the design of the stove feed in the air. Once I have left the air open a crack and both times I woke up to just a pile of ash. Last night I loaded the stove up with big splits of Maple and one split off White Birch that the tree was very old in age when cut, the Birch seemed harder and denser than normal.

I loaded it up at 10 or a little after at night and woke up at 5 the next morning. Nothing glowing in the fire box.

Could it be the grate, letting the ashes fall into the pan resulting in not keeping hot ambers in the fire box?
Could it be the wood?
Could it be that I just am a Dork?

opinions would be great! Thanks


Danno said...
Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that’s been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace.

Greenwood should never be burned in stoves or furnaces or fireplaces.
If you doubt this call your manufacture to see if they are ok with it or call your contractor to see if they will back the install or call your insurance company to see if they will cover a house fire.
It is impossible to make all of the btu's 8000 per lb @ 20% moisture if it is wetter.
Anyone that burns green wood is just asking for problems.

 

[Skier76]

Spent the second week with our new Jotul F3 and I was able to wake up each morning after 6-7 hours of sleep to find enough coals to rekindle the fire and I only had the firebox 50-60% packed with 3 logs (one 50% burnt and the other two within 30mins of going to bed). Loaded the logs, closed the damper and went to bed.

Got up at 6am to go hunting, moved the remnants around, tossed in a small ball of paper, a couple pieces of kindling and within 5mins I had a new log in and a fire going……….

What am I missing here?

That's good to know. Did you shut the air control down 80% or do you have an actual damper on the stove pipe? What kind of wood were you burning?

 

[Danno77]

Danno said...
Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that’s been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace.

Greenwood should never be burned in stoves or furnaces or fireplaces.
If you doubt this call your manufacture to see if they are ok with it or call your contractor to see if they will back the install or call your insurance company to see if they will cover a house fire.
It is impossible to make all of the btu's 8000 per lb @ 20% moisture if it is wetter.
Anyone that burns green wood is just asking for problems.

No arguments here, merely pointing out that wet wood will burn longer, not saying it is the thing to do, just saying it will burn longer...

 

[quads]

Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that's been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace. If I wanted a fire to last all night long, then I would toss a heavy wet round on the hot fire that was already going and when I'd wake up in the morning there it'd be, just barely left and glowing away waiting on the dry stuff to start it up again. I didn't get any impressive BTUs that way, I'm sure, because the energy was all spent drying the moisture out of the wood, but if the ONLY goal is a long burn, then wetter wood will win, IMO. doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it'll work (unless your chimney gets so much creasote that it catches on fire, or your neighbors drag you into the street in the night because they are are hacking on your smoke)

Decades ago, this is the way everybody I knew did it. I know people that still do it this way. They cut a green tree or two in the Fall just for this purpose. At night when getting ready for bed, they'd call it "banking" the stove, and in the firebox would go a big chunk of green wood, surrounded by a few smaller (possibly drier) pieces also cut that Fall. Chimney fires were quite common, but that big green piece of wood would smolder and hiss all night long. When I was a child, the creosote ran down the wall inside the house from the thimble, and the outside of the brick chimney was covered with it.

 

[tradergordo]

Your expectations may be too high, its not a super big firebox, only real chance is with high BTU hardwoods.

When I see stuff like this:
"My 2.0 CF PE Spectrum has no problem with 8+ hour burns. No brag - it burns way better than I expected. on softwoods! "

I just have to smile. What is an overnight burn? Everyone has a different view. I think at a minimum burntime has to include a stovetop temp above 200F and some glowing coals to restart a new fire. The fire also has to have secondary combustion, no smoldering. There are physical limitations to how much burntime you can get from a given amount of wood. 2CF of softwood can't burn and produce meaningful heat for 8 hours, if its burning 8 hours, its probably smoldering.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

The fire also has to have secondary combustion, no smoldering.

where is that rule written?
Sure new EPA stoves CAN burn a lot cleaner than the stoves of old, but there is no way people will be using them at their peak efficiency 100% of the time. In order for me to get 6+ hour burns with softwood I'm gona have to close the draft up tight at night, and I'm sorry, but a little smoke is going to come out the chimney.
Besides, not everybody has EPA rated stoves, and some of them manage to get overnight burns without "secondary combustion".

 

[tradergordo]

A smoldering fire isn't producing much heat and a lot of your fuel is passing right up the chimney unburned. If you can heat your house effectively that way, go for it, but I wouldn't personally call it an 8 hour burntime. Where is that a written rule? See post above yours

 

[skinnykid]

Yes I know Hemlock and Birch are not Long lasting, but I figured the Maple (a bit under seasoned) was and it would run all night. Well i figured, with all the stories I heard and read that the F500 would give me an all night burn. I am a horrible wake-er up-er but if I gotta reload the stove once, then thats what I gotta do I guess.

Adios, I would like to know where I can get some Apple or Locus in our area. I know about the Apple but I am sure If I go to the orchards and start hacking down trees, I might get a ride down town.

 

[grommal]

I'd be interested to see what other Oslo owners have experienced.

Right now, I'm burning pine...punky older pine. I usually load it up for the night around 10:30 or 11. I'll get up again around 2 or 3, rake out the coals and toss more wood on. That usually leaves some good coals for the AM. It also seems to keep the house at a pretty comfy temp. Oh, I have a Castine which is smaller than the Oslo. I knew from the get go that the Castine would NOT be an overnight stove...no matter what.

I only burned our new Oslo a few times last spring, and have not fired it up yet this season, but I had nice overnight burns when I tried. I was using oak, and the stove load near bedtime was not the startup fire for the day. The stove was already hot, already had a little ash in the firebox, and I had raked the coals mostly to the front. I loaded the stove with oak, but I didn't work very hard to pack it full. I ran it with the air intake open until I had good secondary combustion and 600F stovetop, then I throttled it down gradually to maybe 1/4 open, which kept good secondary and stovetop between 550-600. 8 hours later, I had very nice beds of coals each time, and the stovetop thermometer was reading about 400.

To me, that's a reasonable overnight burn from a firebox this size.

 

[grommal]

Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that's been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace. If I wanted a fire to last all night long, then I would toss a heavy wet round on the hot fire that was already going and when I'd wake up in the morning there it'd be, just barely left and glowing away waiting on the dry stuff to start it up again. I didn't get any impressive BTUs that way, I'm sure, because the energy was all spent drying the moisture out of the wood, but if the ONLY goal is a long burn, then wetter wood will win, IMO. doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it'll work (unless your chimney gets so much creasote that it catches on fire, or your neighbors drag you into the street in the night because they are are hacking on your smoke)

y hate to admit the truth? a rose by any other name...he may be able to mix greenish wood just right & get no creosote & extend the coals= gotta watch the chimni anyway so to be safe regardless of assumptions.
fact is u can burn too dry a wood & get inefficiency via excess CO & or creosote. stove is designed to burn 15%-20% moisture wood & anything lower can result in lack of adequate combustion air.= CO or creo unburnt up the chimni

Yes, for a given draft setting, wet wood will burn longer, but that's not a benefit, as it will also deliver less BTU output. The same burn time can be achieved with dry wood as long as the stove can be throttled back sufficiently, and you'd get the bonus BTU's that you waste making steam with the wet wood.

 

[NorthCountryWood]

Decades ago, this is the way everybody I knew did it. I know people that still do it this way. They cut a green tree or two in the Fall just for this purpose. At night when getting ready for bed, they'd call it "banking" the stove, and in the firebox would go a big chunk of green wood, surrounded by a few smaller (possibly drier) pieces also cut that Fall.

Have to admit I'm guilty of this as well. Grandmother taught me as a kid on the cookstove and I still do it. That being said I do have easy access to clean out my stove pipes. It does keep the stove warm and is easy to get the fire going and up to temp the next morning.

Stumbled upon another secret of an overnight burn....6-7 inch rounds of seasoned Hop Hornbeam (ironwood). Drop 2 or 3 on hot coals in my VC Encore at 9 or 10, close the air intake and there will be plenty of hot coals 8 hours later.

 

[raven]

Skinny, i havent managed to get a solid overnight burn with my oslo.
In my case there several factors that come into play though.
only one season of burning in it
the majority of the wood i burned was ash and half of that was burned before its time ( moisture)
i didn't really load it up heavy
This year ill have a good supply of locust (nice and dry)so ill try in earnest to get a longer burn out of it. I did pick up a damper for the flue but haven't decided if ill install it or not.Skinny its a good stove and do enjoy it , i my be dead wrong but my gut feeling is a strong overnight burn is not one of the oslo's strong points. il know for sure in a month or so. ;-)

 

[grommal]

Well, I hate to admit it, but FratFart (or whatever his name is) is right, Wet wood will burn longer. Or, at least that's been my experience in a non-draft controlled fireplace. If I wanted a fire to last all night long, then I would toss a heavy wet round on the hot fire that was already going and when I'd wake up in the morning there it'd be, just barely left and glowing away waiting on the dry stuff to start it up again. I didn't get any impressive BTUs that way, I'm sure, because the energy was all spent drying the moisture out of the wood, but if the ONLY goal is a long burn, then wetter wood will win, IMO. doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it'll work (unless your chimney gets so much creasote that it catches on fire, or your neighbors drag you into the street in the night because they are are hacking on your smoke)

y hate to admit the truth? a rose by any other name...he may be able to mix greenish wood just right & get no creosote & extend the coals= gotta watch the chimni anyway so to be safe regardless of assumptions.
fact is u can burn too dry a wood & get inefficiency via excess CO & or creosote. stove is designed to burn 15%-20% moisture wood & anything lower can result in lack of adequate combustion air.= CO or creo unburnt up the chimni

Yes, for a given draft setting, wet wood will burn longer, but that's not a benefit, as it will also deliver less BTU output. The same burn time can be achieved with dry wood as long as the stove can be throttled back sufficiently, and you'd get the bonus BTU's that you waste making steam with the wet wood.

how throttled back? flue damper?

Depends on the strength of draft and the design of the stove, so it's a function of the particular stove/chimney combination, and also a function of how cold it is outside and wind conditions as well. If the draft is not overly strong, a good setting might be way above the minimum on the stove's air inlet. If the draft is very powerful, and it's a newer stove that can't be choked down as much (for good reason), then a flue damper could be needed, but I think that's the exceptional case. In my case, with an Oslo, it seemed to be around 1/4 open, with no flue damper.

 

[skinnykid]

Well I will keep playing around with it to see what I can learn about it. Gonna get down below freezing tonight and tomorrow night. Word on the streets is that we will have freezing rain and snow friday. So I will give it a work out.

 

[JohnNC]

I would say you may have a gasket problem. Change it with a thick one. Also, remove the grate. That definitely accelerates the burn. We never had one in our Jotul, just a nice dense ash bed.

 

[skinnykid]

I don't think it is a gasket problem, the stove burns way slow, slower than I am used to, I just can't get it to burn all night with the loads I put in it.

 

[JohnNC]

Lots of factors can def affect burn time. Many of the posters said they had problems with all night burns and this model. Gaskets are the cheap and removing the grate is cheaper.