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Allegheny County offers ‘bounty’ for woodstoves, boilers

Post in 'The Inglenook' started by Panhandler, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Panhandler

    Panhandler Minister of Fire

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    http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4500420-74/county-wood-boilers#axzz2baWuj5ww

    That old woodstove might have new value beyond its rustic ambience.
    The Allegheny County Health Department on Thursday said it would pay a “bounty” of several hundred dollars each to people who turn in older woodstoves and outdoor wood-fired boilers that don't meet newer rules for air emissions.


    Read more: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4500420-74/county-wood-boilers#ixzz2baXE994l
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  2. Jon1270

    Jon1270 Minister of Fire

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    Almost makes me want to buy up a couple of junker stoves on Craigslist. Heck, I saw one listed for free within the last few days.

    I was slightly alarmed at the new chimney height regulations noted in the article, until I realized they only apply to OWBs.
    n3pro and ScotO like this.
  3. mustash29

    mustash29 Feeling the Heat

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    Cash for clunkers strikes again. ;lol
  4. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Sad reality is, this is going to get stricter and stricter every year. My problem with the media (and the government in general) is they are painting a bad picture for EVERYBODY that uses wood for heat......when in reality it's only a certain percentage that doesn't "comply" to the standards.....

    10 years from now, we'll probably be paying a large tax YEARLY for burning your own, hard-earned wood.....even though it's the GREENEST heat source out there. BULLCHIT.

    OK, rant over....carry on.
  5. DevilsBrew

    DevilsBrew Minister of Fire

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    Allegheny County can have a coal fired power plant but not old woodburners. Makes perfect sense.
  6. Jon1270

    Jon1270 Minister of Fire

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    Eh, not necessarily. This is how it goes if you conceive of "the government" as something separate from yourself, but as I've gotten older and more familiar with how things work, it seems more and more that the government, especially local government, *is us,* and the problems happen because we're not present for the discussion, rather than out of any natural animosity. I've been going to borough council meetings lately and it's often amazing how few constituents show up to offer their thoughts or even watch the proceedings. Occasionally there will be some controversial issue that packs the hall and gets everybody's blood pumping, but last month there were about 4 people watching the meeting, three of whom had come to comment on one agenda issue or another. In that environment it's easy for things to happen without a lot of consideration simply because there's nobody around to offer competing perspectives. I think this sort of problem may be getting worse as little local newspapers go out of business; council might debate some code change for months, and still residents are blindsided when they hear about it because the traditional mechanisms for notifying the public are broken.
    hobbyheater and Joful like this.
  7. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    I agree with you....people need to become more active in their local and even the federal government. We're electing people in that we really don't even know who they are or their backgrounds....and we b*tch and complain when they screw us over!

    I don't want to derail the thread, just had to let out some morning frustrations....carry on....
    NortheastAl likes this.
  8. DevilsBrew

    DevilsBrew Minister of Fire

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    I have to disagree, Jon. I don't think the "little guy" matters. It is always about the money. Whoever has the money has the power to control an agenda. If the actual welfare of the county was the major concern, then fracking wouldn't be allowed.
  9. Jon1270

    Jon1270 Minister of Fire

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    Well sure, money matters, and when there's a big disparity in wealth then the system gets perverted, bad decisions can be made and powerful entities can escape proper regulation. But even in a system that's working well, money would still have to matter because its the medium through which things get done -- including good things. With fracking, for example, no government body can afford to pay attention only to groundwater issues while ignoring economic / employment problems. Sure, water pollution sucks. So does air pollution, which is worse with coal than with gas. So does poverty. The decisions are not so simple.
    Joful likes this.
  10. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Devilsbrew hit a nail on the head there, though. Good point, young lady!
  11. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Be careful guys......this thread will end up in the azz can, and once there, all reason goes out the window.

    Back to our regularly scheduled program.....;)
    Joful likes this.
  12. n3pro

    n3pro Minister of Fire

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    I've heard other places doing it, some successful and some not but as been discussed here many many times. Stoves are only part of the problem, bad burning habits are more so the problem. As much as I love wood heating, I hate the heavy smoldering smoke smell and the burning of my eyes. I love going outside when I'm burning as getting a faint whiff and not seeing the smoke. It's a step. At least they are giving money for switching instead of trying to tax for the use of like plastic bags. Sadly some of the same people who switch stoves will still cut, split and burn the same day air turned down and still belching smoke.
  13. mustash29

    mustash29 Feeling the Heat

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    I'm all for the local fire mashall, building inspector, etc driving around and spreading some wisdom / enforcement actions to those who are polluting. IMO that is simply them doing their job.

    My father (south central PA) had his Quad insert installed years ago, early 90's, hooked to a masonry chimney with clay liner. A couple years ago when oil spiked & the economy tanked, many more folks started burning. The local fire marshall was driving around, knocking on doors, asking questions and looking for install info, etc. They were not too concerned with folks burning, but making sure things were up to code and safe.

    Dad was given a "stern suggestion" to have a stainless liner installed to bring his system up to current code. He complied since the house was built in the late 60's. He was pleasantly supprised at how much better the insert performed with the liner. Money well spent and they sleep better at night knowing the (chimney) fire danger is minimized.

    The problem is most folks won't get off their rump and do these sort of things unless they HAVE to. It is unfortunate that it takes laws & ordinances to make people do the right thing.
    osagebow likes this.
  14. TradEddie

    TradEddie Minister of Fire

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    Dude, it's a VOLUNTARY program. Chill. Save the right wing rant for when they try to pry stoves of of our cold dead hands.

    TE
  15. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Where do you see me blaming it on one side or the other? nowhere, that's where.
    Yeah, this particular program is voluntary.....that's how all that chit started out in Oregon and Washington state, too.....look at it out there now....

    I'm chilling just fine, had me several Redd's Apple Ales a bit ago, may even go out back and sit around my smoke-belching campfire here in a little bit!!:p==c
  16. osagebow

    osagebow Minister of Fire

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    Wow. I grew up downwind from Clairton mill - they pumped benzene and sulfur into our school across the river on a daily basis, and still do. Halls were actually filled with nasty smoke during temperature inversions. EPA has pussyfooted with that place forever."Smoke means jobs" :mad:

    It's well known they turn off the "scrubbers" when it rains. My wife had been asthma symptom free down here in VA for ten + years then we passed that place in a drizzle. Kids start hacking, one pukes, wife has a full blown attack. Luckily,(??) my hockey playing beast nephew has asthma also, and had a rescue inhaler on hand.

    and they go after wood burners.
    Joful and ScotO like this.
  17. Jon1270

    Jon1270 Minister of Fire

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    Coincidentally I went for a random drive a couple of nights ago, exploring because I still don't know the area well once I get more than a few miles from home. I was following the river and stumbled on the Clairton mill by chance. I'd just left Glassport, crested a rising curve in the road and the mill suddenly swung into view -- brilliant white lights illuminating huge columns of smoke, trolleys bigger than houses ferrying stuff back and forth. It's as if Rube Goldberg built the eighth wonder of the world. I stopped in a contractor's parking area directly across the river to marvel at it, but I wouldn't want to live next to it either.
    osagebow likes this.
  18. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Wow... Great story. It's true that many ordinances have been passed in various locales, that go after the woodburners. As Jon already stated, often due to only one side being presented, at the local level. WRT the EPA, I think it's more political ("see? We're doing something!"), but regardless... that's not what's happening here. This is a local voluntary program.
    osagebow likes this.
  19. bogydave

    bogydave Minister of Fire

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    Appointed bureaucrats motto:
    "We're from the Government, we're here to help you improve your lives & tell you how to do it our way." LOL :)

    Might be a good idea to help reduce the smog in the air during winter months.

    I read the coal fired power plants are in the process of converting to NG. ?

    Alaska had a similar wood stove program in Fairbanks, replace many old smoke dragons with new higher efficiency / cleaner burning stoves.
    A good think IMO.
    One of the few good things our Government spends our money on :)
  20. NCFord

    NCFord Member

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    Does this apply to non-residents? The next time I drive through Allegheny County I might have to bring my old Squire stove and drop it off for a reward. I need to get rid of it anyways and most likely could not get more that a $100 bucks for it on CL and perhaps $50 for scarp metal.
    ScotO likes this.
  21. Jon1270

    Jon1270 Minister of Fire

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    At this stage it's just a pilot program; they're only accepting a couple hundred trade-ins, I believe, so you'd better act fast.
  22. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The wood stove change out programs have been going on around the country for years.

    And this thread has nothing to do with wood or wood handling gear.

    In 3-2-1...
    Joful and Jon1270 like this.
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The beauty of this program is that you don't even have to show you bought a new stove like the change-out programs require.
  24. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    I was wondering why this was filed in the woodshed...
  25. hobbyheater

    hobbyheater Minister of Fire

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    IMGP3758.JPG

    Laws that are well intentioned sometimes can have some negative results for others. I have been operating for over 30 years, a Jetstream wood gasification boiler. It produces 1/10 of a gram of soot per hour at 120,000 BTU per hour. To put things into perspective, a cigarette produces 1 gram.
    According to the hour meter, it burns about 800 hours a year or produces the same amount of soot as 80 cigarettes in a year's operation.

    About 4 years ago we got a new neighbour. This spring he saw me putting wood into the wood shed and asked what I did with the wood, did I sell it? I told him that I heated my house and domestic hot water 365 days a year with wood. He was somewhat surprised as he had never seen smoke come out of the chimney.

    I have a second brand new unit that someday I might like to install but both units predate any EPA standards. The town bylaws now require all new wood burning installs to be EPA phase II compliant.

    The above picture was taken with the boiler at full output capacity. The air is just hot enough to be uncomfortable to breathe and is odorless; much like the air coming out of a hot air register.

    As we live in a small town where most of the time common sense still prevails, I sure that if I went to a town council meeting and took along some of my neighbors who have no objections to my wood fired system, I would be able to install the second unit.
    Joful and ScotO like this.

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