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Am I burning too good a pellet?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by olddawgsrule, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Post the chip info here too! I have the ability to read them(if there not OTP or locked). Programming it, you would need a coder to have a look at it.

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  2. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    If the stove was able to be fired on high for a long period of time without going fire out on you before it started to go fire out, the chances are extremely good that the problem is one of overheating due to ash build up in the exhaust system some where.

    There was a party on here last season who was having a similar problem with a Breckwell unit, it turned out to be a restriction in their exhaust caused by a dip in the horizontal portion of the venting which allowed ash build up and subsequent temperature build up in the system. In this case it caused the thermals on the combustion blower to shut down.

    I suggested to check the order in which the motors stopped.

    It is also possible that your convection fan needs to be cleaned and can no longer remove enough heat from the heat exchanger.
  3. heat seeker

    heat seeker Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like the side(s) may be pinching a wire, or moving one. My St Croix has a loose proof of fire switch, in that the crimp that holds it together is loose. If I move its wires while it's cooling, I can make the blowers go on and off. You may have a similar situation with a switch or sensor, perhaps the overtemp sensor. A door may also be pressing against your vacuum switch, or pinching its hose, giving a false lack of vacuum alarm. A close inspection is warranted, with an eye on doors hitting or pressing on a component.
  4. Andy H

    Andy H Member

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    I agree that a wire is getting pinched when you put the sides back on. I bet it will run just fine with the right cover on because that side can't really hit anything. but all your wires are connected to the left side.


    Look at the small black box near the bottom.... if you follow the black wire from the high temp sensor you'll see the box i'm talking about. there will be a grey wire harness that also goes into the box. there should be a small cut out in the box so those wires don't get pinched but i bet the wire harness is not in that spot.


    also, I'd take the high temp sensor out and check it... whoever put mine in crushed the set screw right into the side of it instead of just making it snug enough to hold it in place. if you have the same issue i'd put the new sensor in that they are sending you.


    the only other thing I can think of is that the sides are holding the heat in and it's tripping the 200 degree sensor but to happen that fast seems odd, that is why i think it's a wiring issue.
  5. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    I was thinking the same.
    I work the vent from the front side with the vac and planed on making the adapter for the shop vac this weekend and pulling it through from the other side.
    Knowing I haven't cleaned this, cause I couldn't find it, till now, I've been concerned about how much was in there and can't reach.
    I'll report back tomorrow after this has been done.

    Once again, Thank you all!
    You've been great!
  6. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    I've pulled the cover looking for 'user' adjustments to the feed and blower.
    I saw that the space was tight and opened it up a bit.
    The ribbon seems loose enough not to cause a problem and this stove did work when new (but never did run on high).

    I'm communicating with USSC now (am assigned a tech to talk with) and trying to find out if there are 'user' controls.
    What I see is a solid state circuit and probably need to change out some timing chips.
    Reason why I am going to send it out to some friends to decipher the curcuit.

    In the above post you'll see I'm thinking I still have some ash stuck in there and what I'm about to do.
    Take this out of the equation and maybe you had the problem all along!

    I'm betting we figure this out way before they do!
    Should have said you guys....
    I'm the 'dumb ass' here, just getting a bit smarter with help from friends!
  7. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    I'm going to dissect this tomorrow and write down some of the components part by part.

    The top row of white look like timers to me.
    With my mag glass tomorrow I'll get the number off them.
    Lower I see all the resistors to control what can happen when the above timers allow it.
    I believe this is where the change may need to happen.
    Capacitors below that and in the upper left where the ribbon curls (sorry about that getting in the way).
    Obvious ribbon connect and the sensors coming in on the upper right.

    They're supplied schematic, shall I say, sucks....
    If I can guess with this only being divided up to four functions : ignite, auger, room blower and exhaust blower, then I assume the timers are paired.
    This is the 'dumb ass' moment when I can't figure why or what the other 4 functions are...

    Here comes the pic's.

    Attached Files:

  8. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    Sorry, forgot how to do 2 at once....

    Attached Files:

  9. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    You might want to verify the low (min) and high(max) fuel feed settings, they are changeable on some of the USSC stoves, it could be that the max setting in the controller is out of range for the stove it is installed in.

    Not likely, but possible.
  10. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    actually, I think you have it and what I'm trying to get across to USSC.
    Over heat sensor removed, sides off the stove, the stove does what it what to... burn pellets and blow heat!

    Tomorrow I remove any ash factor that may be caught in this unit (connector now built), run another test (not expecting a difference), I believe you have the problem.
    The stove wants to do more than the controller will let it!
    Or I'm just burning too good a pellet than the stove was designed for..

    I'm believing the later right now... but please keep pushing me to other solutions.
    You're getting this 'dumb ass' smarter and I'm liking it.
  11. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    Andy I opened the draft slide all the way.
    Low flame and still went out...

    Am I going the wrong way with this?

    I built an additional slide on my air intake pipe.
    Opened that all way.
    Still went out.

    Made up a tube to reach down the port in the firebox to clear it.
    Tonight actually pulled the exhaust blower cover and pushed the tube up the channel to clear anything I thought I may not have reached.
    Still shut down....

    It seems no matter what I do, I'm still pushing too high a heat....

    Yes, I'm trying to run it on medium, not low.
    When it gets cold 'round here, I'm going to want to run it on high.
    How the heck are you managing to run this thing?

    I've pulled everything I can find to clean this baby.
    I've pulled the flue and dusted the thing.

    What the heck are you burning for pellets that keeps this thing running?

    Thankfully spring is around the corner.
    I say that cause it's snowing right now and was hoping not to turn on the boiler (witch I've just done).

    I wrote this towards Andy, cause he owns one and hopefully did not come off as frustrated as I am (that is owed to USSC)...
    If I did, Andy I do apologize.
    You've been a great person to know and a huge help.

    I have an email off to USSC, to my new contact, stating, this is still not working.
    What's next folks?
  12. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Are you "Opening" your Draft up. I'm guessing by "going out" you mean its burning the pellets up to quickly. If thats the case then you are introducing more air flow to the pellets, than what is needed. This will cause a Faster and Hotter burn of your pellets. To slow the burn you must Close your damper and restrict the air-flow coming into the burn pot. This will allow your pellets to burn longer. Finding that "sweet spot" of Fuel to Air ratio, can be tricky in some stoves. But once found, Holy Heat.

    Hope you get this thing figured out. olddawgs Put the call on........ Paging Andy H....... Paging Andy H
  13. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    It's not burning out the pellets, it's overheating and shutting down.
    That's the best I can figure...

    I've run it with the intake vent wide open and see the pellets dancing out of the pot.
    Quite a show!
    Not all of them to cause a shut-down, in fact it will run this way, just low heat...

    When I shut it down, almost all the way, I have minimal movement of pellets and major heat.
    Almost the opposite of what you're saying....

    I actually dialed it in to what I thought was the 'sweet spot', beautiful flame and good movement of pellets.
    Problem is the firebox read 320 plus degrees and the shut-off is set at 200....
    This is on medium.....
    Even with the sensor out, it will shut down.
    I'm assuming the 2 exhaust sensors are reading too high a heat...

    Right now I have it running with the sides off, the overheat sensor out and running on low with the ugliest flame you've seen....
    Intake vent wide open....
    Very little heat...
    Not good.

    My contact at USSC is calling me on Thursday (an early day for me) to go over some points and hopefully find something to help.

    Reality, I have more faith in you guys!

    I really do think the blower needs to run stronger to cool down the firebox and allow this stove to do what it wants to do.
    Burn pellets!
  14. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    The pellets will burn Hotter, Yes. BUT. Because your draft is open all the way, your heat will go straight out the flue. So you are correct in saying when you close it you get more heat. I worded what I meant wrong. I thought you meant your fire was going out on low because of too much air. Which was what I got out of you "opening the draft" all the way.
    That was My mistake. Sorry
    You flame was going out because of overheating.
    Well, I am sorry that they have not got it fixed for you, or that one of the ideas on here has not led to the problem. With the sides off of your stove and your sensor away from the stove, it should not be shutting down. At least one would think that it shouldn't. I get Double the Temps on the side of my Firebox, and that's just on Medium. Wish I knew more about the actual model. Or had one around me. Hope that the Tech you talk to has some ideas. Have you received the new parts yet?
  15. Andy H

    Andy H Member

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    sorry for the slow response, sometimes I get an email that says a new post has been made in this thread and other times I don't.

    I really don't think pellet brand should matter, I never buy pellets by the ton, I just grab 10 or so bags any time I'm at lowes or central tractor. I've probably burned 20 or so different types of pellets ... in fact, right now i can't even remember what i'm burning.

    as far as the damper slide, you definitely don't want the thing wide open, in fact it should be closer to all the way closed, maybe open just a half inch or so... just so the pellets "dance" in the burn pot.

    I don't have a fresh air pipe hooked up, I'd try unhooking yours and just let your stove suck in air from inside the house. I doubt that will make a difference but you never know.

    here is my stove

    [​IMG]


    it only heats my living room and kitchen (about 1000 square feet) and my house is really well insulated so hardly ever have it all the way on high, even on the highest settings. Today I'll burn it on high and see what kind of temp it is putting out. If it's similar to yours and my stove does not shut off that will tell us a little more.

    Did you put the new high temp sensor they sent you in? I'm just wondering if the one that came in your stove was crushed by the set screw like mine was. I put a new one in a couple weeks ago and it's been running great ever since, Like yours mine would just shut down for no obvious reason and that sensor seemed to fix it.
  16. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    They sent me all 3 sensors and there in.
    Those 2 on the exhaust blower where one major 'pain in the butt' to replace!
    Not sure what they do and they're 125 degree sensors.
    Both mounted right next to each other, which also brings in more questions.

    The tech is calling tomorrow and we're going over this.
    Supposedly, one on one as I'm at the stove.

    It's cool tonight, so I'm heading down to attempt another start....

    Oh ya, I do have an outside vent hooked up.
    I know it is longer than it should be, so I created a slide on the vent to add inside air.
    If I open the slide all the way, I'm pulling inside air like it wasn't there.
    Close it and I'm pulling outside only.

    I have found I can dial in a real nice flame without this, thanks to 'you' telling me a vent slide already exists on this stove.

    Let's see what tomorrow brings.
    I'll post up after my tech training.
  17. Andy H

    Andy H Member

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    I ran my stove on high yesterday for perhaps the first time ever. it ran great for about 10 or 15 minutes and then shut down.... the top was very hot to the touch and didn't feel safe at all. I've never felt it get that hot. Like i said, I never have to use the high setting so it's not a huge deal for me but if you do need it you sure as hell should be able to.

    I'd love to hear an update on what the guy from US Stove tells you. I hope it's not another guy that just tells you to try try unplugging the stove for a few seconds to see if that fixes the problem
  18. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    That sucks that neither of you can run on High. I know you shouldn't run like that for an extended period of time. But wow. Any stove should be able to run Full Bore for at least an hour and not shut off. This is how some people "clean" there stoves before they actually clean them. Run on high for an hour to increase the air velocity in the stove and get it hot to "clean" it out. Hope both of you get it figured out. Those are a nice looking, Modern stove. US stove shouldn't sell a stove that can't operate on all heat levels.
    I don't "Run" my stove on High either. Thank God I don't have to. But there have been times I put it there for about an hour. For a. Quick little boost of heat. Its just nice to know its there when you need it. The old Englander I just put in my shop ran on High for about 3 hrs the other day. Had to see what it would do. I thought it would overheat and shutdown because its about 15 yrs old. She proved me wrong. Wish both of you the best of Luck.
  19. Andy H

    Andy H Member

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    I kind of have a feeling that it's a settings issue that the stove company screwed up. I mean this thing was Super Hot on high, i didn't get an exact temp but just common sense tells me that it was too hot to run for any length of time. I have a feeling that this stove on medium puts out almost as much as most stoves would put out on high, maybe a little less.

    I don't have any data to prove that it's just a hunch.
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    In addition to this being a possibility: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/848607/

    There is also enough evidence presented by the three hour high burn with the covers open or off that the following is happening.

    The thermal protection circuit on the convection blower is shutting the convection blower off and then a short time latter the auger stops feeding pellets and so forth because now the stove has gone over temperature.

    Does the stove just shut down all motors or does it continue to operate the combustion blower until the fuel in the pot is totally burned up?
  21. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    No call!
    Hopefully tonight.....

    In the meantime;

    When to my local electronics guy two days back, he likes me cause I'm learning and the projects I'm doing (and questions).
    Feel like he's my Grandfather!

    He cleaned and tested the sensor and said it was good.
    Sent me home with the cleaner and drier to re-install and be sure the others were just as clean.
    Condition was to come back with good news.

    Well the news is, the stove ran good on medium.
    Mounted the right side back on (Andy understands this) and continued to run.
    Put the overheat sensor back in, re-adjusted the intake vent slide.
    Still running.
    3 hours later, re loaded for the evening and it ran all night.
    Good start!

    Last night I put the left side panel back on and fired her up.
    This is the side with the overheat sensor.
    Had the other side off to help ventilate the unit.

    Unit is running fine on medium for close to an hour.
    Just said the heck with it, I'm going on high and let's see what's going to happen.

    Shut down within an hour....
    Wasn't nearby, so don't know exactly how quick..

    Looks like, with advise from the folks here, it's running good again on low and medium.
    It will be up to the tech to get me running on high.
  22. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    What I have noticed so far , is all the motors go down together.
    The few times I have caught it (it's in my basement) this is what I saw.
    A few times, some pellets have not been burned, but mostly there seems to be enough draft for a 'natural burn' for them to burn out.

    They sent me replacement sensors for the convection blower what I've been calling the exhaust blower, hopefully the same thing.
    They are 2 125 degree sensors, which also confuses me, why not one 250.... unless they're not wired together...
    This circuit is killing me...

    When the tech finally calls (which now was supposed to be anytime today), I'm afraid I'm going to 'blow' him/her away with questions!
  23. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    The Convection Blower is your Room air blower. The Combustion Blower is for your exhaust. Also hose are prob snap Disc's, that dictate when your convection blower turns on and off. When your stove (snap disc) reaches 125 the room air blower will kick on. And the same for shutdown. Room air blower will shutdown at the snap disc predetermined temp. Hope he calls soon.
  24. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    Just finished the call from the tech.
    Very informative and not once did they say 'unplug it and try again".
    Thank God!
    I've got someone with a brain!!

    They're thinking it may be my flue.
    I am venting into my masonry chimney.
    They are talking about a max of a 4" pipe for the height.
    But... also said, working that well on medium, it should be working on high...
    Not certain it's a flue problem...

    The tech did apologize abut not mentioning the vent slide.
    Which would lead to 'how it works'.
    And the exhaust ports 'that need to be cleaned'.
    But we're past that.
    Let's get this thing working on high!

    A new control board is coming....
    Not really sure what that will do.
    But I'll try it and hopefully something is programed in to increase the blower speed or feed rate combination to make it work.

    Good Tech, listened and answered what they could.
    Another call to come and setup an instant messaging to keep me going till it runs in full.

    Was told that this is a unique stove to them, but the concept stove runs very hot.
    I'm hoping to see my stove run this well.

    Updates will come as I proceed.
    I'm talking to someone who speaks English, not just something close.
    This is good!
  25. olddawgsrule

    olddawgsrule Member

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    New 'control board' came in and installed it.
    Kinda disappointed to see they believe the user push button pad to be the 'control board'...

    The true 'control board' is in the circuit board...
    Even with my limited knowledge here, I know where the 'real' control is...
    The 'circuit board'!

    Had a good start with the tech, but limited now.
    I'll give them some lee way due to the 'control board' being sent and awaiting my results.
    No difference... and reported the same.

    Sorry to admit I'm a numbers pusher.
    I try to find the best pellet, for the dollar, for the greatest amount of heat, over a given time period.

    What I see, is the stove can not handle what I'm feeding it.
    It just overheats...anymore possibilities... God I think we've hit them all....

    The better the pellet (Firesides right now) it will only run on lower settings (low for this pellet).
    Just shut down with both sides off.... on medium...
    Nice flame though!

    Don't wish to give up on this stove....

    I've cleaned this thing eight ways to Sunday and probably places I shouldn't admit to...
    Created adapters to my shop vac to assist in sucking this thing clean (again, something I ....).

    Short of measuring the flue draft CFM (which I'm about to look up), I'm at a lost...

    I'm saying I'm burning too good a pellet for this stove to handle....
    And stove can not handle the heat....
    Or this stove is just not designed to burn the pellets currently on the market.

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