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An over fired Defiant

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by wg_bent, Jun 26, 2006.

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  1. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    A friend has a defiant CAT that's been over fired a bit. Some chipped enamel, and warped bottom grates...needs to be re sealed. Any guesses what it's worth?

    He's thinking 10 bucks...I'm thinking more like 450. Only the bottom grates are warped...CAT is new.

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  2. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    How old is it. I figure every 10/12 years they have to be rebuilt. It sounds like he let the gasketing get away from him,
    which led to overfiring. I think what one will probably discover, is the entire stove needs to be taken apart and all gaskets and refactory joints re done. I would say $450 is unreasonable but there is a buyer for everything
  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Which raises a question that I have been thinking about, and isn't TOO much of a thread hijack.

    What the heck do those Jotul and VC insert owners do when it is time to reseal the seams? Heck I know every cast iron stove I have ever owned had some seam leakage just from the jostuling of shipping and delivery. With a Winterwarm or Kennebec that would be a real pain having to drag that irom sucker out for a rebuild. Much less how the heck do you check for leaks with it in the fireplace?
  4. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    W

    Great questions: Mo heats problems with his his winter warm, were credited to the newly assembled winter warm castings fitting shifting during transport. One then beggs to ask why VC would ship a product before proper curing had occured?

    Leak testing: Some have placed a large wattage light bulb inside the fire box and looked for light leaks Prefferly done in the dark

    My way discovered by accident; I was blowing out a used stove with compressed air. It stired up so much ash one could actually see it leaking out the seams and gaskets. I Took this step further using the plumbing principle of testing vent pipes. I deflate a soft plastic /rubber ball. I place the compressor hose in the vent outlet ,with the un inflated rubber ball, I use my portable air can and inflate the ball in the vent opening. Adjust the compressor to only deliver 25/30 psi and pressurize the stove. The leaks either push out the ash cloud or wistle indicating the location of the leak. Depending upon what happens I judge the degree of work needed. If not too bad, I simply lay a healthy bead of refactory caulk on the seam inside the fire box. Where it is impossible to get the caulking gun at, I use a squeeze tube. I then let it cure and pressure test it again, luckilly I solved the leakage. In the case of my older intrepit II, all I did was expose leakage to other seams. Too much leakage. So T took it apart with a putty knife scrapped and cleanned all joints and also wire wheeled them. I re caulked them and using ratchet straps and bar clamps held them together long enough to fasten the assenmbly bolts. All nuts and bolts were replaced with stainless steel. I let it cure and pressurized it again. Also pressurization will indicate gasket leaks. You will know which gaskets need to be replaced.
    This is done outside in my driveway. If done in the home,, I'd be cleaning the ash film up for days and have a very pissed off wife

    When blowing out a stove I used a spray painter hood and a respirator.

    As for dragging out that heavy insert: I would use car jacks rollers piano dolly and or 600lb rated two wheeler and decent rope.
    Another way is to get 4 very strong motivated friends.

    Next post here, one buys a 12 year stove or older cast iron from a yard
    sale, you now know what is involved to bring it back to spec and safe opperations. Your best bet of older stoves, is to buy plate seel welded seams, if you do not want to get involved in a rebuild. Again cantion should be mentioned ,check for broken welds seem, warpage, and cracks. That whitish color half way up the side, is a clear indication of over firing and expect the metal properties to have been altered. Steer clear of these. Enamal cast iron stoves will have pot marks, where over firing caused the enamal to chip off in the middle to upper areas. If not warped too bad, these stoves already need rebuilding. If warped, chances are they the cast parts will never seat right again. This info probably should be edited and saved so it can be refferenced again and again.
    Many sellers on Ebay have repainted their stoves. this will cover up the whitish evidence of over firing. Some do it to present a clean looking stove,others to cover it up. I would never buy a repainted stove unless, I knew it was for appearance only and from a very honest person. I rather see surface rust I can wire brush off and repaint my self, then buy the covered up unknown

    BB I hope I answered at least some of your questons. I got a bit carried away sorry
  5. fyreniyce

    fyreniyce New Member

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    I can't speak for any others but the Jotul Kennebec is a cast/steel hybrid. Steel firebox with a cast iron fascia and doors. So the firebox would not need resealing until the welds crack and you have to recycle it.
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Ah. OK. Thanks for the info.
  7. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    If I may comment as a prefessional wood stove technician - There is no way to tell with certainty whether a stove needs to be "rebuilt" or not without doing a careful on-site evaluation. However, elk has given a fairly reasonable ball-park time frame. I use a similar time frame when discussing actual yearly cost of using a wood stove. All wood stove owners should remember to figure in the maintenance costs of the stove they are considering. In the case of a cast iron stove that may mean a full rebuild at some variable interval, dependent on degree of heavy use.

    If a consumer does not intend to do this maintenance themselves they must factor in the labor to hire someone else to do it. As an example, the aforementioned WinterWarm. This stove must be completely removed from the fireplace to properly service. I charge a minimum of $250 to service a WinterWarm. That cost must be added to the yearly fuel costs, etc. If I have to rebuild a stove the labor bill will be over $500.

    Now, we are seeing more cast iron stoves assembled with gasketing materials in the seams instead of the common furnace cement. I expect that will make it easier for more users to do their own maintenance. And, it does make it easier for me, as a service technician, to remove and replace panels when needed. But, I can't say whether the cost of maintenance for a cast iron stove that is gasketed will be less than one that is cemented. Maybe.

    Steel stoves may not have this "need" for rebuilding but in some cases that is a negative. When a weld breaks on a steel box it takes a proefessional welder to fix it. Or, in some cases, it means complete replacement. It is a choice. Cast iron stoves have been popular for many do it yourselfers. They can be serviced and maintained by the user for many years. For the user who does not fit the DIY mold they have to make a choice. Many choose the cast iron for it's looks and form, even though they know they will have to pay more for maintenance in the long run.

    Sean
  8. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I am not professional wood stove technician Seaken is. However I an very mechanicaly minded. Buying a used wood stove without the educated trained eyes is very foolish. How many post have said, I just picked up this stove I neeed info. Believe me, that not the position wants to be in.. Totally uneducated making a life saftey decision, where he admits little knowledge. Before next heating season, this forum will field at least 100 or more of these type of post. We had one earlier today. If you do not know what you are doing, then seek profesional advise. Or purchase used stoves reburbished by professionals. Life safetey should not be determined, I think it ok. by a person having no knowledge or experience
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