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Any Harman Owners Using Portable Generators?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Rokal, Oct 31, 2011.

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  1. St_Earl

    St_Earl Minister of Fire

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    ^^^this is what i'm leaning toward. their 2200w surge 1800w running unit.
    these really appear to be the best of the lower priced brands.
    like i said, the generac ix series isn't up to the quality of generac's u.s. made models.
    and they are expensive for what they are.

    that briggs and stratton p2000 is a *very* nice looking unit. less that 3% thd and "only" $649 on ebay.
    probably the closest thing to a honda that costs less.

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  2. Newburydave

    Newburydave New Member

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    I just put a P43 into service the day before the big power outage in the northeast. As they say everything in life is timing.

    I have an old (c 1987) Generac S4002 two phase contractor worksite generator (Made in USA back then). The P43 worked fine off the generator for the three days it took to get power back.

    As per the dealers recommendations I'm running the stove through a surge protector, standard plug style. I don't know anything about the cleanness of the power from my old generator. It was also running my well pump refrigerator and oil burner so I know there were surges and slumps.

    Is there any handy way to test the power output? The manual and spec sheet on the generator disappeared years ago.

    If my power is too dirty would running my P43 through one of the bottom end UPCs that Harmon sells help do you th
  3. wilburg

    wilburg Member

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    I'm on day 4 without power on a 15 year old yamaha Ef2400A. (not the ie). And my stove is the only source of heat during this Friggen Halloween surprise... I'm warm, family is warm right now that's all that counts.. If my board fries (god forbid) it would still be better than freezing, or the $100+ a night hotel (if I could find one) or worse the shelter. I bought the stove to heat my house... That's what it is doing... At this point ... If I fry it, and have to throw it in a junk pile and buy a brand new one, i would.... HOWEVER, saying that.. Once this crisis is over.... I have decided to buy the Honda 2000.
  4. newf lover

    newf lover Minister of Fire

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    Anyone know what the Honda 2000 goes for? My sister has an Accentra and is on day 4 with no power. Too late for this storm, but they are seriously thinking of getting one after this and Hurricane Irene.
  5. wilburg

    wilburg Member

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    You can expect around $950 ... There are other sine wave genny's out there too.. Yamaha, Ryobi (Home depot $599) Generax. Etc.... My yamaha was a top model of its day... Seeing that it's going to be a 20 year investment on something you may critically need in an emergency, I would think the extra $ for quality is well worth it. You can also get an adapter to add a second 2000, if you want to upgrade, and a system to connect it to a 5 gallon canister.... After fueling my Genny every three hours for four days.. That alone is why I'm going to get the Honda! Next week if anyone is looking for a Genny, I might have a 15 year old Yamaha for sale
  6. Hitch

    Hitch Member

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    Doesn't running the generator through a good UPS/surge protector (the ones that produce a pure sine wave) safeguard the pellet stove?
  7. iron stove

    iron stove Minister of Fire

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    I have a Honda 3500 non inverter, and a new Yamaha inverter.
    Truth be told, Honda and Yamaha make the BEST generators, and they usually have good automatic voltage regulation and " Relativly" clean power output as long as they are in tune, and turning the recomended 3600 RPM. For many, many years people had nothing but traditional revolving field generators, and everything survived.
    Remember, even the utility company usus old style power generation.
  8. chweng

    chweng Member

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    I bought the Honda eu2000i for $999...pricey but certainly reliable. I've been without power since Saturday afternoon and have been running my Accentra FS, a fridge, TV and a couple lights with the Honda. Times like these, reliable clean power source outways the extra price. There are aftermarket companies that sell modified fuel caps and larger gas can to attach for really long run times. After this experience that's my next puchase. Out of the box this thing fired right up and is really quiet.
  9. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    Don't believe so. The clean power is created from the inverter built into the generator. The generator actually makes 12-14 volts like a car alternator, then the invertor convers the 12v power to 120 volts. A high quality 1000 or more watt invertor can get expensive in a hurry. If you find a cheap inverter, then the conversion from 12 v to 120 v suffers, defeating the purpose.

    Sorry, when it comes to clean power, there are NO shortcuts. Everything has a balance and everything has a price!
  10. iron stove

    iron stove Minister of Fire

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    Alos, I subscribe to smaller, Higher quality generators, that burn LESS fuel, and will provide power for longer times.

    Gasoline is in short supply now, LONG lines, so my generator will supply power 24 hours a day on 5 gallons, where those 5K units will eat 10+ gallons a day.
  11. telegirl

    telegirl Member

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    I am looking at the Honda eu2000i to power my 2 year old st. croix prescott. Can anyone recommend to me if this will be ok for this stove? Had an old St.Croix that ran great on non inverted power, but this one is far more complex. Thanks!
  12. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    Perfect! Will run your stove and a few other essentials as well.
  13. wilburg

    wilburg Member

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    Gas is getting scarce .. Come up north... We have less demand, people are waiting in one hour lines in Springfield, but if they just went north a bit more, less lines... Conneticut has it worse then us, I was just called by Wmeco, they told me that I will hopefully have power by Thursday, Springfield by Saturday... Conneticut, by the springtime. Yes the 5k'ers eat up alot of fuel, plus I don't think very many have the sine wave power... My Genny is a bit loud, louder than I like it because we camp with it, but funny enough.. After 4 days... I can't hear it anymore ... Lol
  14. telegirl

    telegirl Member

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  15. pastera

    pastera Feeling the Heat

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    $189 - 600w Pure sine inverter - http://www.invertersrus.com/pwrig50012s.html
    ~$200 (w/shipping) 1000w 12v supply - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000W-13-8V...707?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2048f1db

    Use your cheap genny to power the supply and the supply to power the inverter - still cheaper than a Honda and you have all the extra 'dirty' power.


    IMO, the generator power issue is very overblown
    Don't overload the generator
    Unload the generator before starting or shutting down - DO NOT LET IT RUN OUT OF GAS
    Add non sensitive loads (resistive / incandescent lights) first and remove last to prevent generator surging when adding more sensitive (expensive) loads
    Don't run only reactive (motors) and/or dirty (switching power supplies) - always have a significant portion of the load as resistive (run an oil filled heater or some flood lights).

    The grid has the ability to absorb all of the backfed energy from reactive loads and the capacity to keep up with the non-linear loads from devices like switching power supplies - your generator cannot so you need to buffer it with resistive loads

    Aaron
  16. Hitch

    Hitch Member

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    Darn, I wish you had a different response, but understand what you are saying. I have an old Honda generator that was barely enough to keep our 1 HP sump pump running when Irene came through and we lost power. The water was really flowing into the crock and the sump pump ran a lot. We made it through, but the generator struggled with the initial surge/need of the sump pump on start-up. It was a long night listening to the generator almost shut down each time the sump started.

    Afterwards, we went out and bought a bigger generator from Costco. It will provide a lot more juice, but I was hoping that I could filter/clean the power with a good UPS/surge protector. Oh well. I don't think I can justify a third generator. I'll just have to do the best I can when the situation arises.
  17. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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  18. CelciusMaximus

    CelciusMaximus Member

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    @hitch you might get away with a auto battery charger/starter with (120V) input from your genny to a 12V output car battery to inverter to your stove
  19. 603BOB

    603BOB Member

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    Just my opinion, but the whole thing is overblown.

    The incoming power is stepped down by a transformer (inductive load) - rectified - filtered - regulated to clean 5VDC power. The processor, the logic, and the LED's all run on 5VDC.

    The Triacs for the igniter, combustion blower, feed motor, and distribution blower simply switch off and on whatever is applied to them. They are isolated from the processor by Opto Isolators.

    My Harmon Advance is 11 years old, has run from generators, and even a 1000 watt square wave inverter - no problems - on square waves the motors make a different noise. The igniter is a pure resistance and could care less what the waveform is. My igniter has NEVER been replaced!!

    Surge suppressors do nothing to improve the waveform - they only clip very high voltage and fast rise spikes. Typical 120VAC suppressors clip at about 330 volt peaks. Fast rise spikes can not pass through the transformer as it appears to them as a very high impedance.

    I have worked with generators and UPS units for many years on communications sites - waveform distortion has never been a serious concern.
  20. pastera

    pastera Feeling the Heat

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    For a more scientific look: http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3497420_6112_ENG_A_W.PDF

    An online UPS is essentially what I described but with a battery and controls.

    There may be no shortcut to Lab grade clean power but the real question is what grade power do you need?

    With the triac motor control of induction motors and the simple power supplies in our stoves, they are dirty little bastards themselves, power wise... As long as the power source does not overvolt or cause power transformer overheating from extremely high crest factors, the stove really doesn't care much about the power quality.
  21. wilburg

    wilburg Member

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    My power came back on, my stove ran 4 days on Genny, kept the kids room at 72. Ran it 24/7... Tv, refridge, DVD players, charge cell phones and iPad all have circuit boards... Nothing got fried. Just saying
  22. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    Dirty power, like dirty oil or dirty grease in a bearing or dirty burn pots or dirty air or dirty underwear aren't going to cause spontaneous failure. They're all slow burn scenarios... Just don't jump on the forums and start bashing Harman because your electronics shot craps 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years from now. Just saying... ;-)
  23. wilburg

    wilburg Member

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    I won't ... Sometimes, in an emergency, you just HAVE to wear dirty underwear, wether the "dirt" was planned or not and wether you like it or not... Just saying....
  24. ducker

    ducker Feeling the Heat

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    shocker... generator or not - all electronics will fail eventually 6 hours, 6 days, 6 years, 6 decades.. it will fail.

    I've used my pellet off of my "cheapy" generator just fine for 10+ days over the past 2 yers. No problems... save the one time I accidently let it run out of gas. that drop in voltage, blew the fused in my Harman stove... Don't let this happen, it was a total PITA in getting in there to replace it. But it was doable by myself.

    I've powered the pellet stove, plasma TV, stereo, DVR, freezer, fridge, microwave... no issues. (not all at the same time of course---)
  25. RKS130

    RKS130 Minister of Fire

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    I have a plain old Sears 2400 Watt generator, circa 1996 when I was lucky enough to get the last one after coming home from a trip and finding no power and water rising in the basement in an October Nor'easter. Anyone know if there is something I can insert between the gennie and the stove to even out the voltage?
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