Any stoves allowed to be installed in a bedroom?

[summit]

We have all probably slept in the room where a stove was burning. Probably slept right through the start-up of the night load and woke up to a cherry red stove. :ahhh:

But the answer to the original question still is, nope they ain't allowed in bedrooms per current building codes and pretty much every manual that comes with a new stove. There is always right, wrong and real. Real is that you ain't getting the permit and the insurance company will cancel your butt.

Go ahead. Make their day. :coolsmirk:

exactly my point the other day when this thread started. thank you. have a stove in the bedroom.. you can rationalize it all you want, you could probably use it till use die of old age and never have a problem... but some a@# killed himself doing it at least once, and now they have a code, and a reason to deny your claim. it is what it is.

 

[begreen]

Problem is one shoe doesn't fit all situations. I slept by a cherry red glowing Ashley, but the place had no insulation at all and leaked like 20 year old underwear. Put a modern stove in a modern, hopefully well sealed bedroom of a well-sealed house and it's another animal. There are exemptions giving the inspector some wiggle room for common sense. But that is assuming this is at hand.

 

[KarlP]

To the OP - I've disagreed with the Moderators around here over this before and haven't been able to change their mind. I believe they may be wrong.

Read from the index I have linked to to the end of the page and then talk to your town building inspector about it.

http://www.rumford.com/code/IMC.html#bedrm

 

[SmokeyStover]

NFPA 211 says about solid fuel burning appliances...

"Listed and installed in accordance with the terms of their listing..." If your owners manual says no sleeping quarters that's what it means and any CEO who would approve it is being very foolish.

NFPA 211 also says

"Solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in any garage" I bet almost everyone here has a wood stove in their garage or knows somebody who does. Just because it can be, and is done by some, doesn't mean it's right.

Personally I wouldn't do it.

 

[fossil]

Two comments I just want to toss out there:

Moderators - There's no requirement to be a subject matter expert in order to be a forum Moderator. I, for example, am a Mechanical Engineer and retired Naval Officer, with no professional experience in either the woodburning industry, code enforcement, or fire protection. I'm just a woodburner and informed consumer. My job as a forum Moderator is more akin to being a janitor...moving misplaced threads from one forum to another, deleting dupes, occasionally trying to get a thread back on topic...stuff like that. I learn more than here I teach, I'm sure. The Moderators here have varying degrees of experience and expertise, in woodburning as in life. But basically, we're just members of the forum with a few extra buttons who serve at the pleasure of the Webmaster to help keep the place tidy. It would be a mistake to assume that just because someone has the title Moderator in their avatar box they carry any more weight in the discussions than anyone else. If I don't know what I'm talking about, I stop talking.

NFPA 211 - The National Fire Protection Association is one of a plethora of professional groups with no government affiliation which compile, publish and maintain reams upon reams of "standards" for every conceivable thing. NFPA 211 is one little section of shelves of NFPA standards. It is not a "code"...is not law. When NFPA 211 forbids solid fuel-burning appliances in garages, period...think of that as being a recommendation from a group of assembled professionals. Whether or not their recommendation on that matter applies in your particular circumstance depends on what your local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) says about it. This could be your state, your county, your municipality, or whatever. Some have adopted as code the recommendations of NFPA 211 verbatim...others have not. The only way to know for sure is to dig into the locally applicable requirements which do have the force of law. NFPA 211 is an important reference, and in some circumstances is the default when nothing can be found which takes precedence, but it is not universally applicable.

Rick

 

[stoveguy2esw]

To the OP - I've disagreed with the Moderators around here over this before and haven't been able to change their mind. I believe they may be wrong.

Read from the index I have linked to to the end of the page and then talk to your town building inspector about it.

http://www.rumford.com/code/IMC.html#bedrm

the rumford fireplace link is interesting, i noted that they refer to the NFPA 211 as the applicable standard. it should be noted that the code in turn refers to manufacturer's instructions. if trhe manufacturer states it cannot be installed there even if every code you can come up with says a stove may be installed there, you cannot do it. it should be noted also that local codes supercede national code when it comes to issues like this. to install a stove in a sleeping room , it must be one which does not have manufacturer's language denying so, must be a type heater which meets national IMC code, and lastly there cannot be a local code present which makes it all moot.

as for confined space, the way to determine if you meet it in the space you are looking at , the formula is;

L x W x H x 1000
------------------- > max BTU output
50

or, length X width X height X 1,000 divided by 50 this total MUST BE higher than the max BTU output of the unit to meet confined space requirements.

 

[Johnnaris]

simulation credit

Thanks for sharing. It's great.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Wow....great to see a topic I dropped years ago is being brought back to life

Our situation was such that we needed to set our first-floor thermosat for nearly 80 degrees to
reach 68 degrees upstairs. A small woodstove in our huge bedroom quickly solved that problem,
and everyone appreciated that. We have since moved, and even during the sale inspection of our house
(Insurance & Liscensed Inspector), no one said "boo" about it, and to this day, the buyers love it.

My basic question is what's the problem??

Fire hazard?? A proper installation w/ proper wood burning techniques should void that out.
Carbon Monoxide?? How about CO detectors and/or outside air kits... (did I ever tell you about the time when our Hot Water Heater set-off our detector??)

This has always been a mystery to me......

 

[humpin iron]

Back to the original post: FYI in Ct it is 100% forbidden to have an UNVENTED gas product in a bedroom or bathroom. On another angle I was told that when we sleep our sense of smell goes to sleep and that is one of many reasons to not put a product in a bedroom.
Just do DV gas FP or stv, who's gonna get out of bed to stoke the fire anyway?? and if it could hold a fire overnight how hot would that bedroom be??

 

[MishMouse]

I know it's against code for many many stoves to be installed in bedrooms, but currently we have vent free gas fp's in the bedrooms that we don't use one of them puts a strong LP smell into the air, one doesn't work, and I just plain don't trust the whole vent free thing for the others. Turn em on for more than an hour and you've got a nasty headache. I can't see how this is safe. These are rated at 10k btu/Hr.

Is the code restriction based on the fact that it's a wood burning device, or a maximum amount of btu that can be put into a sleeping room? I would definitely be much more interested in using wood to heat the bedrooms.

How I am getting heat into a bedroom is I have the stove installed in the basement and have the Class A HT pipe running up through the corner of the master bedroom sectioned off by drywall with a vent in the top of the drywall enclosure. When the stove is running the Class A pipe lets off heat that enters the room through the vent.

What is located below the bedroom(s) in question?
If it is a basement or an open living area you may be able to use a similar solution when you install a stove.

But, what I would do for now is have those LP heaters safety inspected, I do not think you should be smelling strong LP odor or getting headaches when they are running. Sounds like a leak somewhere in the system which could lead to an explosive surprise when you are running them.

 

[johnn]

OK,,So which is it::LxWxHx1000,,,orLxWxHx20,,,orLxWxH=H20

 

[KarlP]

The rule is no more than 1000 btu per 50 cubic feet ...

So if your bedroom is 15' x 14' with 7.5' ceilings ...

15 * 14 * 7.5 = 1575 cubic feet in the room

1575 / 50 cubic feet = 31.5

So the maximum output of the stove should be 31.5k btu or less for a bedroom that size. In my mind that much may roast you out of a well insulated bedroom.

 

[humpin iron]

WS + OAK would equal a vertical vent, if done properly, of course I'm sure on a UFO in Maine things are different

 

[stoveguy2esw]

OK,,So which is it::LxWxHx1000,,,orLxWxHx20,,,orLxWxH=H20

it is LxWxHx1000 divided by 50

 

[summit]

you still run into the problem w/ the fuel load.. DV gas units shut dow if the pilot is interrupted, or a safety switch is triggered. woodstoves do not.there is pound upon pound of fuel in a woostove that will continue to burn and feed whatever hazardous situation you want to occur; fire, chim fire, co poisioning, smoke backs, etc. a dv gas literally stops working if the vent is plugged, the air intake is plugged, a delayed start snuffs out the pilot, etc. if the pilot dont go, nothing works. in the case of a woodstove, fire can smolder for 12 + hrs and contribute to a bad situation irregardless of outside or inside conditions. Its the same reason you could never DV woodtoves thru a wall w/ poser assist; too much fuel all at once that cant be stopped if something goes wrong. To the guy w/ the woodstove in his bedroom... I hop you never have a claim, buddy, cause they will throw you under the bus so fast.... no matter if they never said anything to you or shot sunshine up your a@#... when they gotta pay out for property damage, or deaths.. its gonna be all you.

 

[bokehman]

1. oxygen: you cannot shut off a burning solid fuel unit untill all the fuel has been burned up. These units take large volumes of air to operate, and it could concievably suck the usable air out of the room and suffocate you in your sleep.

This is nonsense. First to shut the fire down you just open the door and throw in a bucketful of sand/ash (don't tell me code doesn't require a fire bucket). Second a woodstove, unlike an open fire, does not consume huge quantities of air, and that air which is used is quickly replaced. The concept that a woodstove could cause a vacuum strong enough to suck the air out of a sleeping persons lungs is ridiculous.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

you still run into the problem w/ the fuel load.. DV gas units shut dow if the pilot is interrupted, or a safety switch is triggered. woodstoves do not.there is pound upon pound of fuel in a woostove that will continue to burn and feed whatever hazardous situation you want to occur; fire, chim fire, co poisioning, smoke backs, etc. a dv gas literally stops working if the vent is plugged, the air intake is plugged, a delayed start snuffs out the pilot, etc. if the pilot dont go, nothing works. in the case of a woodstove, fire can smolder for 12 + hrs and contribute to a bad situation irregardless of outside or inside conditions. Its the same reason you could never DV woodtoves thru a wall w/ poser assist; too much fuel all at once that cant be stopped if something goes wrong. To the guy w/ the woodstove in his bedroom... I hop you never have a claim, buddy, cause they will throw you under the bus so fast.... no matter if they never said anything to you or shot sunshine up your a@#... when they gotta pay out for property damage, or deaths.. its gonna be all you.

Good point...better change your signature...Code may not allow for a stove in your Tree House...lawsuits....

 

[summit]

1. oxygen: you cannot shut off a burning solid fuel unit untill all the fuel has been burned up. These units take large volumes of air to operate, and it could concievably suck the usable air out of the room and suffocate you in your sleep.

This is nonsense. First to shut the fire down you just open the door and throw in a bucketful of sand/ash (don't tell me code doesn't require a fire bucket). Second a woodstove, unlike an open fire, does not consume huge quantities of air, and that air which is used is quickly replaced. The concept that a woodstove could cause a vacuum strong enough to suck the air out of a sleeping persons lungs is ridiculous.

i didn't make the code, i just have to follow it... by the way; its hard to extinguish the flame w/ sand when you are asleep/incapacitated by co or smoke.

 

[summit]

Good point...better change your signature...Code may not allow for a stove in your Tree House...lawsuits....[/quote]

probably not.. have to get a dv gas

 

[summit]

The concept that a woodstove could cause a vacuum strong enough to suck the air out of a sleeping persons lungs is ridiculous.[/quote]

it does not suck the oxygen out of your lungs, but conceivably, with a tight enough structure and not enough make up air, the usable o2 levels in the room are reduced, leaving you breathing co or co2. there is only so much O2 in a pound of air... if it is all going to feed a flame, what is left for you to breathe? Remember after 9/11 and the govt told you to have duct tape and plastic to seal yourself off in a room in case of chemical attack? remember how some idiots asphxiated trying it out? same idea.

 

[mayhem]

The rule is no more than 1000 btu per 50 cubic feet ...

So if your bedroom is 15' x 14' with 7.5' ceilings ...

15 * 14 * 7.5 = 1575 cubic feet in the room

1575 / 50 cubic feet = 31.5

So the maximum output of the stove should be 31.5k btu or less for a bedroom that size. In my mind that much may roast you out of a well insulated bedroom.

Thats a crazy big stove for whats effectively a pretty small room. My guess is the formula is designed to make sure you avoid stoves in small rooms that might actually heat the space to a low temp flash point for a material like kleenex or something.

My MBR is 28x18 and it has a catherdral ceiling upwards of about 12-15 feet...lets say 12 feet. So 28x18x12=6048. Times 1000 is 6,048,000. Divided by 50 is 50,000. The wood stove in my living room, which heats virtually the whole house on all but the coldest, windiest days, is rated at 60,000btu max...if I put a stove that size in my bedroom I'd have to leave the sliding door and all the windows opena ll winter long just to survive.

 

[KarlP]

conceivably, with a tight enough structure and not enough make up air, the usable o2 levels in the room are reduced, leaving you breathing co or co2.

Does that tiny danger somehow go away if the stove is mounted in other rooms of the house? Or with a gas hot water heater or central heating system?

 

[KarlP]

My MBR is 28x18 and it has a catherdral ceiling upwards of about 12-15 feet...lets say 12 feet. So 28x18x12=6048. Times 1000 is 6,048,000. Divided by 50 is 50,000. The wood stove in my living room, which heats virtually the whole house on all but the coldest, windiest days, is rated at 60,000btu max...if I put a stove that size in my bedroom I'd have to leave the sliding door and all the windows opena ll winter long just to survive.

Actually its worse than that. 6048 / 50 * 1000 = 120k btu...

My furnace has an 79k btu output and my stove has a 38k btu output. Stove alone keeps most of the house comfortable down to about +10F degrees. Furnace alone keeps the whole house comfortable down to about to -15F and keeps the uninsulated/unfinished basement from freezing.

Since I haven't found the outside temperature that gets my entire poorly insulated ~2000sqft house in MA cool when running both, I have a feeling putting more than their combined btu output may overheat your bedroom.

 

[Delta-T]

conceivably, with a tight enough structure and not enough make up air, the usable o2 levels in the room are reduced, leaving you breathing co or co2.

Does that tiny danger somehow go away if the stove is mounted in other rooms of the house? Or with a gas hot water heater or central heating system?

tiny danger doesn't go away, but gets a bit tinier. theoretically, if in your BR, with the door closed you've isolated yourself into the room where CO2 is being generated.

at least if the unit is in the next room you increase the chance that you won't be stuck in a closed space that becomes increasingly toxic. 100% of danger can never be avoided, but most of these rules do exist to minimize danger. I'm baffled by "vent free" stuff. I wouldn't put my grill in the living room and try to cook there or heat the place with it.

 

[KarlP]

conceivably, with a tight enough structure and not enough make up air, the usable o2 levels in the room are reduced, leaving you breathing co or co2.

Does that tiny danger somehow go away if the stove is mounted in other rooms of the house? Or with a gas hot water heater or central heating system?

u sound like ure quoting gas code, maybe, for a NON AIRTIGHT STRUCTURE . sure u got the equation right?

huh? What does gas vs oil vs wood code have to do with it? If the structure is tight enough that there isn't enough makeup air, then any combustion in the house would kill you.

Your average wood stove outside air kit is a 3" diameter duct. That is ~7 square inches of air intake and probably overkill for any size stove you'd actually want to put in your bedroom. Do you have any idea how tight the construction would have to be to not have 7 square inches of air leaks into your bedroom? If your bedroom door does not have weather stripping separating it from the rest of the house that's more than 7 square inches right there. If you didn't have the necessary air leaks wouldn't you get insufficent draft and the stove would smoke constantly and tell you there is a problem?

The only situation I could see getting suddenly not enough makeup air is if the house is buried by an avalanche or landslide...