Anyone put in a catalytic and a non-catalytic and compare them?

[aaron1]

I have been curious about comparing catalytics (especially the amazing Blaze King) with non-catalytics. I am getting the perception that the BK is a phenomenon and can supply incredible overall heat output (integrate heat over time) due to sending less heat up the chimney.

Has anyone directly compared a catalytic (especially a Blaze King) with some efficient non-catalytic stove in exactly the same installation space with the same wood? Can you objectively say how the two compared?

If the efficiency of a wood stove is the percentage of heat put into a house from the availability of the wood, it seems the real efficiency (if we could quantify it) of a catalytic stove would be much higher than a non-catalytic stove. Is that true? How much higher?

I'd love to do the following experiment:

Design 2 super insulated rooms that are identical in every way. Install 2 stoves with optimal installations for each, one catalytic and one non-catalytic, and then use as similar of wood as possible and measure the BTU output into the room (via temperature over time and temperature of walls) per pound of wood used and see how much better the best catalytic is compared to the best non-catalytic. That would be fascinating!

 

[Kool_hand_Looke]

I have not personally. But I have a DW XL CAT. My father in law (or out law I should say) has the exact same stove without the combustor. I've got twice the house he has. He's complained of back puffing but I think that's more operator error. I think mine is def more efficient. Heat output...I'd be more apt to say mine is slightly better considering I have twice the house (with open floor plan, vaulted ceiling, and a loft) and mine seems to cook that wood better. But, this may have something to do with his back puffing. I swear he chokes it. But that's just me.

 

[aaron1]

Sounds like an unfair comparison if he isn't running it hot enough!

 

[webby3650]

I do this test everyday that its less than 30 outside. I'll do you one better, I run a Blaze King and a "hybrid" at the same time. This Hybrid uses less wood than a conventional non-cat.
I can honestly say that if I run them both all day, I'll pass this BK 3 times with an armload of wood for the other stove! There is no comparison in efficiency or burn times I'm my experience.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Bragger

I do this test everyday that its less than 30 outside. I'll do you one better, I run a Blaze King and a "hybrid" at the same time. This Hybrid uses less wood than a conventional non-cat.
I can honestly say that if I run them both all day, I'll pass this BK 3 times with an armload of wood for the other stove! There is no comparison in efficiency or burn times I'm my experience.

 

[aaron1]

Wow, that's really depressing How much less wood do you think a cat stove will use than a non-cat stove to heat the same space the same way?

Also, if you run a cat stove at the hot end, say 600F, is there smoke coming from the chimney?

Does the chimney design (insulation, length, interior/exterior) impact the performance of a cat stove due to less heat going up the chimney?

How much do you think the BK thermostat adds to the stove's efficiency (i.e. if you compared a similar sized BK cat stove to a Woostock Fireview how would they compare!?)

 

[webby3650]

How much do you think the BK thermostat adds to the stove's efficiency

It's everything! Nothing can compare! We are talking about 30 hour burn times on low, and these burn times are easily attainable, other comparablly sized cat stove will be somewhere between 12-16 hour burn times in a perfect world.

 

[Kool_hand_Looke]

Sounds like an unfair comparison if he isn't running it hot enough!

While I agree, there isn't anything I can tell him that he already knows...or knows a better way...or I'm just wrong. So, according to him, something is wrong with his stove; pipe is too big, pipe isn't long enough at the roof, his active ventilation is messing it up, his house was built TOO air tight, etc.

 

[aaron1]

You'd think other cat. stove manufacturers would just buy a BK and copy the design. Why don't they? Patent issues? Is there any information on exactly how the BK thermostat works. It's very intriguing.

Does the BK thermostat allow less hot air to go up the chimney?

 

[aaron1]

KHL, sounds like some people I have dealt with! best to just talk about something else!!

 

[BrotherBart]

I do this test everyday that its less than 30 outside. I'll do you one better, I run a Blaze King and a "hybrid" at the same time.

So when it is cold ya need something to do the BK's heavy lifting for it?

 

[webby3650]

You'd think other cat. stove manufacturers would just buy a BK and copy the design. Why don't they? Patent issues? Is there any information on exactly how the BK thermostat works. It's very intriguing.

It's a very complicated system to get approved with the EPA and Efficiency tests. This is all they have ever done, they have poured tons of money into it, others are afraid to loose big time! It's risky!

 

[webby3650]

So when it is cold ya need something to do the BK's heavy lifting for it?

Ya right!

 

[Kool_hand_Looke]

Wow, that's really depressing How much less wood do you think a cat stove will use than a non-cat stove to heat the same space the same way?

Also, if you run a cat stove at the hot end, say 600F, is there smoke coming from the chimney?

Does the chimney design (insulation, length, interior/exterior) impact the performance of a cat stove due to less heat going up the chimney?

How much do you think the BK thermostat adds to the stove's efficiency (i.e. if you compared a similar sized BK cat stove to a Woostock Fireview how would they compare!?)

With the combustor hot, there shouldn't be any smoke. Ever. If there is, somethings wrong

 

[webby3650]

With the combustor hot, there shouldn't be any smoke. Ever. If there is, somethings wrong

Not true, sometimes the cat can be "overloaded" and have some smoke, especially in the first part of a big load of wood. It doesn't last very long, but it can happen and it doesn't mean that the stove isn't operating the way it should.

 

[jdonna]

Well, I can say that I had the same chimney and wood supply and a non cat down draft (Harman) and switched to a Woodstock fireview. Even with the larger firebox of the Harman, I would get extremely high temperatures for a shorter duration but less burn time. The Cat (Fireview) runs a lower temperature, but for a much longer duration of burn time. Roughly 6-8 Hours vs 10-14 hours. Added bonus is the thermal mass of the fireview radiates lots of heat even when there is hardly any coals left.

Hands down I am a cat fan, and won't look back. I have burned non-epa, down draft combustor stove, fire tube stove and now a cat. Ease of operation, efficient, single air control ,super long burn times and doesn't run away on me, in my opinion are why I am fan of the woodstock cat stoves. Would love to try a blaze king, but the woodstock is such a compliment to our living room.

I think if you get caught up too much in the numbers from the EPA it can be literally smoke and mirrors. I go by what actually works in a real world environment. There are lots of good resources on the internet about EPA tests and stove results as well as varying expert opinions.

My wife says often that the house is warmer with the fireview due to the even long temp output. =)

 

[jdonna]

Sometimes steam output in the very first part of the burn can be mistaken for smoke.

Another point to make is stack outlet temperatures are different between a cat and non-cat stove.

 

[aaron1]

I know I read somewhere on here that a BK owner said the stove smokes sometimes due to the low stovepipe temp.

jdonna, i agree that the real test is the real world, not the EPA. I wish we could have a real experiment of a cat vs non-cat though. that would be really interesting. i would think it could be done. at its simplest you could just take several splits of wood and cut them in half and then use an equal number of halves in each stove and see what heats better. It would be tricky to design the insulated room though and actually measure the BTU output.

webby3650, do you have any info on the design of this thermostat on the BK?

 

[webby3650]

I have love for my non-cats too! I will most likely always have a non-cat and my BK, I like the see a nice fire and I really don't need constant heat in this end of the house.

 

[webby3650]

webby3650, do you have any info on the design of this thermostat on the BK?

 

[jdonna]

Well you would be dealing with a lot of variables.

Weigh the wood, measure the moisture content.
Then you have to measure the temperatures and graph the highest temp vs the lowest temp over a time.

Also the variable of how the stove is loaded and when secondary action is obtained, that is vary different between a cat and non-cat. Maybe you shovel x amount of hot coals into a warm stove after emptying it for a fair test, allow x amount of time for the wood to char before engaging the secondary system.

I would say to be fair, you would also have to measure the amount of air consumption used by the stove for which the air would have to be made up by in the house via air infiltration with an airflow meter. Not everyone uses an OAK on a stove and its debatable whether it is a good or bad thing.

Hope this isn't too confusing.

 

[aaron1]

You just being coy? Do you have insider info on the thermostat. Do I need to go all "24" on your ass bee-otch. (is that ok to say on hearth.com?)

jdonna, i think i know what you mean with moisture smoke. i get a puff of white smoke when i reload, and some if it may be moisture. i've also seen smoke coming out that is a kind of translucent, blue smoke; that must be bad smoke!

 

[aaron1]

jdonna, i'd argue it's much simpler than you portray. You'd have to use an OAK of course! Also, you'd have to have a super-insulated room. that way, you don't have to worry about anything but how long the room stays at X temperature. Just plot out the starting temp, fire up the 2 stoves, let them run from a cold start or let them both get "up and running hot" and then compare, then measure the temperature over time of the two rooms and see which "integral" is higher for the two stoves.

 

[webby3650]

Very soon, I'll be running an Oslo up against the Blaze King. I'll be glad to document a full head to head test for you!

 

[aaron1]

That better be a promise, my man! I'd love to see how much more wood you think the Oslo uses. I mean, if its twice as much wood, it wouldn't take long to pay that off if you're buying wood and using a lot.