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Bad News on Pellets Stoves???

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by AlaskaCub, Apr 14, 2008.

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  1. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

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    Thats just it, theres no reliable source to rely on for pellets locally. Theres lots of talk of folks getting the pellet thing up and running but none have as of yet. Wood is readily available!

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  2. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    Alaskacub" sounds like you are trying to be frugal at the same as wanting quality."

    Lots of bears up there in Alaska,even maybe a kodiak for you. %-P

    I just love my kodiak insert with the 5/16 steel on top and 1/4 on the sides. They do it seems make a biggy for the stoves, a 3.1cu.ft bear. And forget about the ugly pics on their website,these bears are far more handsome than those pics. First, they are black not grey. and so far as I have discovered , easy on the wood consumption. but massive heat output.

    And you might just find even getting that monster delivered there will easily offset the costs as opposed to something less reliable.
    These things are rugged and "heavy".. Knowing what I know now, I would make the dealer get one of these for me in alaska. I mean do you want heavy duty steel with a big firebox or do you want pretty with tonnes of heat output? Well this bear will give ya both.. my avatar is the kodiak insert.
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    ok, enough of the sales pitch. 1/16 of an inch plus or minus isn't going to impress your wife and it's not going to impress a pellet stove owner either. :coolsmirk:
  4. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

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    Actually it looks like I am going with a Blaze King Princess. Everyone I have talked to says ,that it is the stove for Alaska period! Long , low buns, supposedly nothing will compete with it for the size and output.
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Good choice, a princess with long low buns :)

    Sorry, silly me taking advantage of a typo. From all reports this is a great stove for AK.
  6. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    Yep if ya got the dollars, that is the best way to go. Up to 20 hour heat output. So the cat cleaning and stuff is minor compared to the production you are going to get out of that puppy.. And you are going to burn a whole lot less wood, long as it is seasoned and ready to go.

    I still like my Bear though, so take that BG :coolsmile:
  7. Richardin52

    Richardin52 Member

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    I don't see a problem in my area. 4 pellet mills with 75 miles, one within 15. So long as pellets are cheaper than oil, and they will be.
  8. kinsmanstoves

    kinsmanstoves Minister of Fire

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    Right, everyone should sell their stove and I will buy them up for $50 each and I will split the shipping with you. I can be reached at 330-876-0200 Eric
  9. Ken45

    Ken45 Minister of Fire

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    Local pellet mills won't help you if they don't have access to inexpensive raw material (sawdust). Sawdust used to be a waste product that nobody wanted. Now it's becoming hard to find. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal noting how the price has quadrupled and some outfits have to drive 500 miles to find any sawdust. This wasn't just a localized problem, the article quoted from three widely different areas of the country and implied that it was a widespread issue.

    Ken
  10. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

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    Thats exactly the information that I recieved, and with this next stove purchase being a long term investment with ever increasing heating cost, the uncertainty of such changed my mind with the quickness. I am not worried about not being able to stockpile pellets for one winter but thinking about the next 5-10 winters. And being stuck with a $3000 pellet stove that I cant use or that rivals operating expense to an oil furnace made for bad ju ju on me buying one. Though I wish so badly this werent the case cuz the idea of a push button heat supplement thats less messy than wood and is fairly inexpensive to operate is quite appealing.
  11. buildingmaint

    buildingmaint Feeling the Heat

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    April sale at my local supplier . $185.00 A TON. I paid $195 last year.
  12. Ken45

    Ken45 Minister of Fire

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    Where??????


    What is left over this year where a store overestimated their sales is not an indication of what prices will be this coming fall. I suspect that NEW pellets are going to be 10-20% higher than last year, maybe more in some areas. I hope I'm wrong.

    Ken
  13. Shooter

    Shooter New Member

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    I can still order by the ton for 158.00
  14. richg

    richg Minister of Fire

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    I think we have a Seinfeld thread here. A guy who only sells wood stoves is telling people not to buy pellet stoves. We may want to ask the companies who are building pellet mills left and right as to what they think of "China is going to buy all of our sawdust and there won't be any left for pellets".
  15. Richardin52

    Richardin52 Member

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    I don’t know about Alaska but here in Maine they are talking about all kinds of stuff being made into fuel pellets. I have seen an article out of Canada that identified areas in the US and Canada where hay has been traditionally sold at low market prices. This article said that eventually hay would be used a lot as wood prices go up. It also said products that are now being landfilled will be used. Also the mills in this area are not only using sawdust, they are buying wood just like the paper companies are.

    Supply and demand will govern the price of fuel pellets. To think that pellets will be shipped overseas when they can sell them for as much here (less the shipping and handling) does not make sense.

    Oil will not go up for ever but lets face it cheap oil is gone. There’s plenty oil sand, coal oil etc. but it won’t be cheap and it won’t be clean. I see a bright future for fuel pellets.
  16. kilarney

    kilarney New Member

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    Yes, sawdust has become more expensive. But where does it say that pellets will only be made of sawdust?

    Here in the northeast, the market for pulp has all but crashed. Almost 100% of pulp is being sent to Canada. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that pellets can be made from this pulp. Will it be as cheap as waste sawdust? No. But it will still be quite affordable.
  17. Ken45

    Ken45 Minister of Fire

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    But it is my understanding that today's pellet stoves won't burn some of the future alleged alternatives.

    But if the economic model that cost justifies pellet stoves is based on the raw material being waste and free or very low cost, the economics will change tremendously when the pellet mills have to buy logs, chip them and dry the chips before they can start to make pellets. If that happens, expect large increases in pellet prices that may make them NON cost effective.
  18. Richardin52

    Richardin52 Member

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    I guess I will agree to disagree. If pellets ever got that expensive I'd buy a small pellet machine and make my own out of hay I cut on my farm.
  19. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

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    Heres how I see it, it cost fuel to make pellets and it cost "LOTS" of fuel to transport pellets. Combine an increase in price for pellets with the panic buying mentality that many of us have which institues hoarding more than buying, I can see some probems in the not so distant future. This is without taking into account for less new construction = less wood being cut, countrys like China buying all our raw materials regardless of quality or grade, and the high cost associated with starting up a pellet producing business. It all spells out to long term high prices or low availability to me. One of the local guys that is trying to get to where he can make pellets says he will have 2 million $$$ invested when its all said and done, that really suprised me. With all those thoughts I still havent ruled out buying one....grin
  20. Xena

    Xena Minister of Fire

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    I'm not worried at this time. My stove
    has paid for itself in savings already.
    I'm getting next years pellet supply at a reasonable
    price. If the pellet scene plays out as the OP
    has predicted I'll worry about it then.
    Too much shyte on my plate to sweat it
    right now.
  21. stoveguy13

    stoveguy13 Minister of Fire

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    i would not worry about the pellet maket playing it self out it has been said the pellet market would be short lived for the last 15 som yrs it is still chugging along and as the green movement come it will find it may hit some bumps along the way but to think that the market will die is just not reasonable the more demand for a product the more companies pump cash into the market it will survive in what direction the market moves is not perfectly clear but my guess is that we will keep seeing more and more multi-fuel stove.
  22. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    I agree with pellet stoves not going away. The question is going to be how cost effective will they be? There is a processing ;process, therefore always more expensive than wood. Sometimes a huge infusion of capital is not always the answer,eg. VC. and chapter 11.
  23. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

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    This is all easy to say for folks who already own their stoves but for us newbs looking to get in the game the concerns I have presented have to be considered. I went to Sams, Lowes, and Home Depot today and not one of them had a full pallot (ton) of pellets in stock. Just whatever bags were left on the store floor palot. That in itself was a real eye opener, cuz I would buy pellets a ton at a time if I buy the stove. And winter is not over yet here, it was -4 F here yesterday morning.
  24. eernest4

    eernest4 New Member

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    Well, I might as well add my 2 cnts worth. Pellets are expected to be $6.oo bag in aug 2008,in Ct.

    This price increase is due to several factors:

    Increased cost of saw dust because of lack of housing starts forcing some smaller wood/
    saw mills out of business. This means that a pellet mfg co would have to go further away to
    secure a supply of sawdust & the extra distance translates into more desial fuel used to get the saw dust to the pellet mill which = higher cost of sawdust.

    Small saw mills going out of business = less saw dust available = higher prices for saw dust.

    Some pellet mills will have to have a machine that can grind down a log into sawdust as the supply of saw dust from saw mills becomes undependable or more costly.

    Pellets always go up in price whenever there is a shortage & with more people buying pellet stoves , a demand that exceeds supply is assured; thus insuring higher pellet prices.

    With all of that being said, I still like my pellet stove because it is so much easier to use when i am dead tired, like at 3 am when the wood stove burns dead & i just push the on button of the pellet stove & go right back to bed without much loss of sleep.

    Compair that to getting another fire loaded & adjusted for cruise burning 45 minutes to 1 hr sleep lost at 3 am ,so that with the wood stove, I am getting back to bed at 4 am & maybe can't sleep as I been awake for a hour ferting around with the wood stove vs back in bed at 3:04 with the pellet stove.

    The best answer I could come up with was to buy both a wood & a pellet stove, which is just what I did.

    Pellets are going to get more expensive , every year, but then, fuel oil & gasoline are going to get more expensive ,every year ,too . And wood cut,split & delevered is going to get more expensive , every year, also.

    Increases in the price of gasoline,fuel oil & desial fuel are creating inflation buy driving the price of everything else up accordingly.

    People are broke after paying for gasoline , fuel oil & electricity have no desposable income left to spend at retail stores & barely enough left to buy food.

    There are 14 major stores that have already gone bankrupt, chapter 11,or out of business already this year, as well as many smaller stores that used to deal in non essential items.

    Bottom line is ,we are in & past, a recession and begining a depression.
    every one will want more for their goods and services because the dollar buys less & less gasoline & you need more dollars from somewheres ,just to keep your gas gague on 1/4
    full.

    Hard times are here now & they are going to get a ship load more hard before they even think about getting the least bit better.

    The cheapest thing is a wood stove & scrounge free wood to burn; but,you have to be willing to cut & split & for old people, 60+, this is just not much of an option unelse the are in excellent health. For them I recommend a pellet stove.

    For people 50 or younger, a wood stove if they have the time to feed the baby.
    No time to feed the baby, go with a pellet stove.
    For multi millionaires, I recommend a money burner, excuse me, an oil burner.

    You may think now, that I am ranting & raving ,but in 2011, you will look back, if you even remember & you will say " By gosh!He nailed it dead to rights"!
  25. buildingmaint

    buildingmaint Feeling the Heat

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    My supplier said he could take as many truck loads at the price of $185.00 from his supplier , but he does not have the demand. Our winter this year was not as cold as last , but it was longer . He told me he has 42 tons and is getting another 40 tons in for the sale .
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