Basement vs. Living room for wood insert?

[emt1581]

Well, I think it's clear that you want what you want, regardless of functionality.

How's that?

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

Everyone has said,"Bad idea," but you keep talking about building a fireplace.

 

[emt1581]

Everyone has said,"Bad idea," but you keep talking about building a fireplace.

Who said bad idea? I've seen expensive idea.

In terms of you feeling my reasoning is flimsy, what justification do you have to make such a statement?

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

Everyone has said,"Bad idea," but you keep talking about building a fireplace.

Who said bad idea?

Surely, you jest. . .or misread. Why don't you start a thread with a poll and ask if anyone thinks it is a good idea.

In terms of you feeling my reasoning is flimsy, what justification do you have to make such a statement?-Emt1581

What is your reasoning, "A realtor said?" Let's see some numbers. It's your thesis to prove, not mine to disprove.

 

[emt1581]

Everyone has said,"Bad idea," but you keep talking about building a fireplace.

Who said bad idea?

Surely, you jest. . .or misread. Why don't you start a thread with a poll and ask if anyone thinks it is a good idea.

Why? As far as I can tell YOU are the only one saying it's a bad idea. The rest just said it was expensive.

In terms of you feeling my reasoning is flimsy, what justification do you have to make such a statement?-Emt1581

What is your reasoning, "A realtor said?" Let's see some numbers. It's your thesis to prove, not mine to disprove.

Yes, my realtor said... So I've got a professional, who's job it is to help people buy/sell homes, in this area, with around 10 years experience doing so...to backup my reasoning as to what features in a home make it appealing or a turn off to buyers. What do you have to backup yours and your claim that it's a bad idea?

BTW, my reply is partially a rebuttal to your post(s) but also I'm genuinely curious. Why would building a fireplace be a bad idea?

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

Go back and read your thread. You will see many words indicating poor performance and "heat loss." Brick is not a good insulator. If your chimney were in the middle of your house, it wouldn't matter much, but your chimney is outside of your house. You want to spend $$$ to bust open your wall and lay more brick so you can put a heater outside of your house and then try to get as much heat as possible back into the house with a blower.

 

[emt1581]

Go back and read your thread. You will see words like "heat loss."

Of course, an insert is a compromise. A lot of the heat goes up the chimney, it's dependant on a blower...which uses electricity which doesn't work in a power outage and costs additional money each month. But it's far better than a traditional fireplace on it's own.

But please site any source or post number where it was said that building a fireplace for an insert was a bad idea.

EDIT: Ok, I've seen your edits/updates and I understand what you're saying. I can't really argue because I haven't done any homework on brick's permeability as it relates to temperature and insulation. So you could be right there. But I grew up in a home with the same situation chimney-wise and I never noticed the bricks were any colder than the room temp.

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

It would vary some from house to house, but our big stone hearth attached to an external brick chimney on the north side of the house is always cooler than the room temp. All the masonry is one big heat sink with the majority of its surface area exposed to the prevailing winds. That's why I finally decided to pull the insert and "hearth mount" a stove out in front of the fireplace. The insert is an attempt to solve the problem of the fireplace. People buy inserts because they already have fireplaces, not the other way around. Building a fireplace into an exterior chimney would be building a problem.

 

[ddddddden]

The other problem with a fireplace is that it leaks air around the damper. There are many "chimney balloon" sealing products on the market that address this problem. This would not be an issue with an insert + liner properly installed, but I think some of today's energy-conscious buyers are aware of the problems with a fireplace, and might see it as a turn-off. Even if we accept that most buyers would find a fireplace appealing, there are no numbers to indicate that you would get your $ back out of a fireplace construction project, with or without an insert. John Q. public doesn't heat with wood, and would probably place this very low on his/her list of requirements. IMO, not very many buyers would pay an extra $10-15k to get the house with the fireplace. Even if you found a wood-burning buyer who liked your setup, how much extra do you think they'd pay for your house when they could buy the house down the street and install the stove of their choice for, say, $4k.

 

[ddddddden]

Maybe you should post a "How much extra would you pay for a house with a fireplace?" poll. p.s. Of course, I have exaggerated the case against inserts. There are plenty of people here who successfully heat their homes with inserts, but I'll bet that all of them were installed into pre-existing fireplaces, and many of them were installed with insulation material behind the insert to help prevent heat loss to the masonry. I'm not saying that inserts don't work at all, just that they don't work as well, and to spend extra $$ for a more complex install that doesn't work as well is wrong-headed.

 

[ddddddden]

p.p.s. Your house already has 1 fireplace, so I don't see a 2nd one adding any "Santa Claus appeal". . .just in case that's what your realtor is talking about.

 

[daleeper]

Well, I guess I never saw anything in the first post about resale or investment, we built our home to live in, so am not experienced in this aspect. I can't believe that a brick fireplace would be a good investment an any way shape or form, just too expensive, and way to many ways to design it that may not appeal to the potential buyer. Just how much did they quote you for a brick fireplace? I think you said a few thousand in the first post, but by the time they get done, I'd bet it will be a lot closer to 10 thousand than you are thinking.

If resale and eye-appeal is more important than heating this house efficiently with wood, and you are going to have to buy your wood, call that gas man back, install the gas furnace and fireplaces and save yourself a lot of work, and you will be saving money over heating with the radiant electric heat. I would compare the cost of the fireplace verses the cost of installing the gas furnace and duct work for investment. Electric radiant heat is comfortable, until you get the bill. A good gas furnace if your gas supply is competitive will lower your heating bill significantly, unless your electric rates are real cheap.

Your first post seemed to be a question about how best to heat your new home efficiently with wood, and I think we gave you some help with that. You are now saying that investment and resale is more important, and that your wife has already decided what you are going to do. One would think that they would be the same, but the real estate market is fickle, and everyone has different wants/desires. I would still install a nice looking hearth and stove upstairs. I do not see it hurting resale, let the new owners install the fireplace.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Of course, an insert is a compromise. A lot of the heat goes up the chimney, it's dependant on a blower...which uses electricity which doesn't work in a power outage and costs additional money each month. But it's far better than a traditional fireplace on it's own.

But please site any source or post number where it was said that building a fireplace for an insert was a bad idea.

EDIT: Ok, I've seen your edits/updates and I understand what you're saying. I can't really argue because I haven't done any homework on brick's permeability as it relates to temperature and insulation. So you could be right there. But I grew up in a home with the same situation chimney-wise and I never noticed the bricks were any colder than the room temp.

-Emt1581

[/quote]

Every wood burning solution is a compromise. I like the brick fireplace/insert at our family's camp. Nice feel, trimmed out with pine off the property, etc. However, after stuffing that thing every few hours for a few days, I am ready to go home to the big free standing stove.

 

[ddddddden]

I don't buy that premise as applicable to a well done installation with a quality stove.

I think a lot has to do with area as well as individual buyers. However, when it comes to JUST looks... I would agree that a stove with a large black pipe being seen is less appealing than a semi/flush insert that looks minimally different from a regular fireplace. . .

Here in the 21st century, high-temp paint is available in just about any color you would like. www.forrestpaint.com Some mfrs will gladly paint the stove and pipe the color of your choice. Some won't, and you'd have to DIY (See "New BKK is purty" thread.) Then there's good ol' stainless steel, and I've also seen a snazzy install with something that looked like polished brass pipe. The (repeated) point is that a stove & pipe in your living room can be as pretty as you want. It might not look "built-in," but it can look as good anything else in the room.

 

[oldspark]

You guys are messed up, a big stove with a big black pipe coming out of it is a beautiful thing!

 

[SolarAndWood]

I couldn't agree more oldspark.

 

[ddddddden]

I was so busy doing your homework for you while you speculate about resale, I forgot to mention that having no pipe visible is also an option. As you can see, some folks think black is beautiful. You or the Mrs. don't like black? Take a look at the lovely ivory Jotul on the hearth.com homepage, which you must have seen many times by now. Look closer. Do you see a pipe?

 

[fossil]

Well, after 11 pages, this thread seems to have devolved into a rather directionless back-and-forth opinion thing, so I'm gonna just go ahead and close it down. Perhaps a freshly started thread on a focused aspect of the situation is in order, and would attract a more diverse population of the members here. Rick