Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by webby3650, Oct 16, 2013.
Helpful Sponsor Ads!
Man we just put a brown Oslo on the floor, sexy as all get out.....
... or a top load door. The only reason I even open my front doors is to scrape some ashes thru the grate when the coal bed is too deep to do from above, or to kindle a new fire.
I was able to let both stoves run last night. These pictures are from this morning, I loaded the Ashford at 7 pm and the Cape Cod at 9 pm.
This is what was left at 8 am.
The first pic is the cod in case anyone was unsure. Both were loaded with 2 year old white Oak from the same stack. Ashford stovetop was 350 and the Cod was un-measurable.
About what I'd expect to see, gonna take a lot for someone to knock BK off the throne in terms of burn time and usable heat output.
I wan't too surprised, this Cod can do better on occasion but everything has to be just right.
Wow that Ashford is very impressive! With nearly the same looks as the Cod but much greater burn time I have a new front runner for the stove purchase in the spring.
That's a prettier fire view than I was expecting at 13 hours - does it have some flames throughout the burn or mostly coals?
Any news on if an Ashford 20 might be coming soon?
It has flames the whole time on settings 4-3, other than that its mostly just coals.
I suspect that the 20 will be introduced at the trade show in Salt Lake City this summer. But who knows?
Thanks Webby !........That's exactly one of the things that makes this website so worthwhile for others is to see Real World controlled comparisons...........Good Job
A valuable comparison post; excellent! (And no surprise to us BK owners, either). I loaded my King at 7 pm last night, and at 5 am this morning stovetop was 450. Outside temperature was -2 this morning (yes, really...), and house was a normal 75. And I didn't put any wood in the stove, either. I will load it again tonight for yet another (yawn) exciting 24 hour cycle!
My wife and I live in Bellingham, Washington. We're looking to put in our first wood burning stove. We're very new to all of this and need help selecting a stove. Would really appreciate any input. (I know this requires some guess work but your opinions are more likely to be right than mine.)
The house is 2650 square feet with a quite open floor plan downstairs and three bedrooms, a master bath and a hall bath upstairs. We leave for work early and tend to be gone for 12 hours or longer at a time. Would not want to return to an uncomfortably cold home unless it could be reheated fast.
We really like the look of the Lopi Cape Cod and the dealer says it will heat our home adequately. It has the Green Start button that allows the first to be quickly started without standing over it. But I have concerns.
First, given the reports of the firebox cracking within one year of use and other reports of warping, will it hold up over time? Were these an isolated problem, since corrected, or product defects? Is it too soon to know? This is a big issue given that the stove is a big investment.
Second, if we leave for work with a full fire, throttled down, will the home be warm enough when we get home? Restarting the fire should be easy with the button. But, as I said, we don't want to walk into an uncomfortable home that takes hours to warm.
Same thing in the morning. I don't want the home too warm at night as that makes it uncomfortable for sleep. But I want to be able to warm it fast once we're up and around. I'm guessing the Cape Code would be superior to the Ashland 30 given the higher max BTU output. But I've never used one of these before.
If we load it before going to bed and run it low, will it keep the house warm enough and then can we fire it up fast in the morning and get at least the downstairs toasty within a reasonably short time? Would the Ashland be adequate to accomplish the same task?
The house was built in 2006 and the build quality is good.
I would imagine the Blaze King would take longer to warm the house. Is this correct?
But it would also stay warm longer since the fire would last many more hours.
Which would be most efficient to operate? Would we save money with the Blaze King?
Without the Green Start, would the Blaze King be difficult to operate? How difficult is it to light a cold stove? (Of course, with the longer burn times, it may only rarely have to be cold started.)
Are catalytic converter stoves like the Blaze King more expensive to maintain? Are they reliable? How long has the Ashford 30 been around and is it reliable?
Would the higher BTU output of the CC do a better job for us or the lower BTU but longer burn of the Ashford?
The Ashford specs say it heats up to 2400 square feet. We have 2650. Is this asking for trouble?
The CC says it heats up to 3000. I'm comparing the Ashford because it looks a lot like the CC. Is it an equally attractive stove in your opinion?
Are there other, larger, Blaze Kings that might be a better choice for us?
What stove would you recommend for us and why?
Neither stove will keep 2650 sq ft toasty warm if it's your only source of heat. At the end of the day, a wood stove is a space heater. You can move the heat throughout the house reasonably well with fans etc., especially if you have an open floor plan. And depending where you place the stove, either one of these stoves will do a great job of heating your central space. Winters in Bellingham are not frigid, just long, dark, and wet.
Having said that, I think the BK is a better fit for your requirements. Burned correctly in cycles, you should rarely have to start a cold fire. The stove will hold active coals easily long enough for you to simply reload in the mornings and evenings as necessary. I have found cat stoves very easy to operate. If it were me, I would go with a BK King given the size of your place. It's probably not on your list because it's not an attractive stove compared to Cod and the Ashford, but it will do the job.
I think the Mod's should split your post out as a separate thread, as I have a feeling this will be a long discussion, and will diverge from the thread in which you posted.
Depending on your layout, I would expect one stove can heat 2650 sq.ft. very well. I have one of my stoves heating more than 3500 sq.ft. of space (roughly 1000 sq.ft. x 3.5 full stories), but the level below the stove (basement) does not stay that warm, and we do burn some oil to supplement the heat on the third floor above the stove. If your 2650 sq.ft. is three stories of 900 sq.ft. each, then you'll do better than a 2650 sq.ft. rancher. However, even if you have to burn some oil, gas, or electrons to get to final living temperature, you're still adding a heck of a lot of BTU's to the space, thus reducing the load on your conventional system, and your total heating cost.
I would hesitate to recommend the Cape Cod to any newcomer to this lifestyle. It's too new in both design and concept. It might turn out be a great stove, but I suspect there will be a few tweaks and changes to come, in the first few years of that model. I'd recommend a tried and true design for a new burner, and while the Ashford is a new cosmetic design, internally it's the same stove BK has been making for years (Chinook).
That said, there are many other stoves to consider from Jotul, Pacific Energy, Woodstock, Hearthstone, etc.
It's such a difficult thing to figure out, in large part because it's a guessing game to know what will work best.
To have the Cap Cod with the enamel finish installed is $8,000 to $9,000, depending on where we locate it in the home. That's a big enough investment that we'd want it to work well.
The dealer claims he's sold many of them and not seen problems with the baffles warping (as some have reported here) and definitely no major defects such as a crack in the cast iron box. It's a gorgeous stove and, if we move quickly, we can get the $300 tax credit before it expires at the end of the year. If we waited for the enameled Ashford, there's no way we'd get it done before the tax credit expired. But if the Ashford (or another stove) is going to cost less to run, the tax credit isn't worth worrying about.
Well, I suspect BK could bill you today for a stove delivered next year, if you inquired. PM hearth.com member BKVP.
$8k - $9k installed sounds crazy high to me, but I guess I don't know all of the constraints of your install. Must be quite a big job, as it's almost double what others often pay.
There have not been that many full-time heaters here using the Cape Cod yet, to get a lot of feedback on how it performs in that capacity. One thing that's been questioned a few times is how low the door sill sits, in relation to the firebox floor. Looks to many of us like ashes will come spilling out every time you open the door, if you're putting the volume of wood thru it that a full-time burner does.
Are you really set on just these two models? If trying to heat a small or very tight space, these two stoves are great, since they can both run pretty slow and low (esp. the BK). But for someone trying to heat a space as large as yours, why not go with a big non-cat? Again... what is the exact layout of your 2650 sq.ft. space?
I'd consider other stoves, though I would need to find a dealer who could sell and install it.
For the tax credit, I'm pretty sure the stove has to be installed by December 31st, but if anyone knows different, please speak up.
It's an open floorplan and a newer home. It's well insulated but with 12 skylights there is some heat loss. The ceilings are 9 feet on the first floor and 8 on the second. They are vaulted on the top floor and there is no attic. But it's a temperate Pacific Northwest climate though it does get cold sometimes. It's 20 degrees today and there's snow on the ground, though this is fairly unusual for December. The home is back in the woods so things stay colder and wetter.
On the first floor, there's just a few spaces separated from the rest -- an office, a bathroom and the laundry room. The livingroom, dining room, kitchen and family room are one continuous space, laid out in a horseshoe shape. One possibility is place the stove at the center, though it might also work to place the stove at one end, and let the staircase at the other end suck the air across the house and up.
The second floor has a master bedroom and bath, two other bedrooms and a hall bath. We rarely use the room at the far end of the hall. It's for guests and it's fine if we need to use a space heater when people visit, though I suspect it will be fine. We mostly use the master bedroom and bath and the room at the top of the stairs. If the heat doesn't easily flow up, we can put in some ducts to help conduct it.
So the focus is on finding the right stove to provide adequate heat that will run efficiently and be something that adds ambiance to the home. I was drawn to the Cape Cod in brown enamel because it matches our Brazilian Rosewood floors and because it's so beautiful. Watching the fire burn would be wonderful. But it also has to heat the place. So that's where maybe the Blaze King (or another stove) might be a better choice. Though, as I've said, the dealer thinks the Cape Cod would do the job, and he also does not think it has any design flaws that will cause it to fail us. He thinks the efficiency will be great, and the fact that it heats up fast will be perfect for us.
Of course he is the dealer; not a neutral third party. But he seems quite honest. When he came to our home, it was clear he wasn't trying to sell us. Just helping us figure out what we wanted. We discussed options that he would not have benefited from, such as improving our current heating system, and other options such as heat pumps that his company sells but on which he would have received no commission. So I don't think he's trying to fool me. I believe he believes in this stove.
First off, he is very unlikely to tell you all the issues with any stove. They definetly have an issue with their baffles and andirons, their tech even told us that the one in their test lab warped. As for the cracking, who knows? . How many people pull the firebrick out and inspect it? I'm probably the only one!
They both will do a good job of heating your place. Don't expect much heat after 12 hours with the CC, expect no heat after 12 hours if you are using soft wood. To heat that space the CC will run on a Med/High setting and it will blow through wood!
The Ashford will still have wood left in it after 12 hours, even on a higher setting. I am getting 14-16 hours with it on medium/high most of the time, and only reload it because I'll be gone for 10 hours. Lately have been doing 24hr cycles since it is in the 30's and 40's. The downside is that there isn't much flame to watch. Pretty flames will equal a much shorter burn time. The CC is beautiful, but you will use much more wood!
BTW, I'm heating 2,200 square feet. 40 years old with drafty windows.
He needs to do some research on the cod before he gives statements like that ....all ive heard is the baffles warp and the andirons tilt cause the brackets are to thin
I bet they can both heat a new 2650 sq ft home in his area. New homes are so much tighter than old homes. Check out the King! It is such a wonderful stove to operate. Lots of heat, lots of depth to the box, and lots of air control. The Ashford is nice too though, just smaller.
And cleaner glass!
I think I burn mine hotter than most as I really don't have glass buildup ( a little on each side but otherwise clear). Of course I live in MN, I have two leaky sliding doors near the stove, a poorly insulated 4 season porch that my daughter is using as her room, and cathedral ceilings. Oh, and my wife likes temps in the 80's!
Thanks for all your replies. Ok, here's another question. So let's say we're gone 12 hours during the day. Load up the stove in the morning and throttle back.
With the Cod, all the heat gets dumped into the house and the flame goes out or almost goes out but the stove, being cast iron, retains some warmth. Is the house cold or still pretty warm? Once the stove is fired back up, how long does it take to get heat going? I'm guessing the place would be warm within an hour or so, even if it was pretty cold when we came in the door. Maybe we even let the stove go out and deliberately come home to a cold house because we know it won't take long to get it warm.
The Ashford has the same or less BTU's to throw off, so it just distributes them more slowly. If the house is cold when we get home, because the output is turned down, we fire up the stove but it doesn't go up as high. So does it warm up the house within an hour or do we feel cold for the evening?
I don't know; just asking. The problem is you have to make educated guesses and hope for the best.
If you're noticing a preference, that's because the Lopi would look SO NICE in the middle of our house. The BK looks alright but nowhere near as nice.
One more question. If there is a design problem with the CC, will it be corrected and, if so, will they fix the stove under warranty? I hear Travis is a good company. Can they be counted on to stand behind their product?
I think your house will be warm after 12 hours (talking Cod here) and I think there will be plenty of coals to relight without matches. My two reservations are the price you are paying and the few question marks concerning the Cods reliability.
Travis does seem like a good company, but check the stoves warranty closely. Also, once it is out of warranty, you're on your own.
I love the Cod too and almost bought one. Instead I found a used Blaze king King with chimney for 1000 bucks and installed it myself. This stove could easily last me 20 years and has few issues.
I'd like to say go for it! But it seems there are some teething issues. Are they fixed? Maybe.
By the way, are you an astronomer?
They will both do the job, the Ashford will use less wood though.
Lopi is only as good as your dealer. If your dealer isn't proactive, then you will not be happy.
In order to fix the issues with CC, first they would have to admit that there is even an issue. So far, they act like I'm the only person to experience any issues. I know that is not the case!
Have you seen an Ashford in person?
Separate names with a comma.