Blaze King Chinook 30

[Handsonautotech]

Does the EPA write and print the Blaze King stove manuals?

Because the Chinook stove manual is where I first found the 6107 btu/hr min. burn figure.

Like he said, maybe the wood fell funny that day and almost put the fire out?.

 

[BKVP]

Actually, as I posted earlier, today, it must be a typo. We will get it sorted out.

Next.....

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Like he said, maybe the wood fell funny that day and almost put the fire out?.

Perhaps it did. But the test is generally ended in such situations, the results discarded and a new test performed. Hence BKVP's comment about wasting thousands of dollars. Because if the wood fell causing the heat output to fall to half of what is normally needed for the lowest burn rate, the emissions would fail (if they used that test result). The EPA testing procedure has allowances for such "do-overs" and they require the testing agency to submit the discarded test data and the reason it was discarded.

But I was responding to the claim that the EPA Office of Enforcement & Compliance has made many mistakes in their listings. Which is why I pointed out that the same low burn rate is listed in the company's own literature. So, maybe it's two typo's. We don't know yet. But that would be quite a coincidence.

I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation in any case.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Can you please post a link to the location you found the 6107 reference, obviously a mistake and I would be happy to have it fixed. Thank you.

BKVP

OK, I'm reviving this thread from 6 months ago because I now have one beautiful looking, brand spanking new Chinook 30.1 sitting in the middle of my living room. And the Chinook 30.1 Owner's Manual on my lap. On the "Specifications" page it states,

"Under specific test conditions this heater has been shown to deliver heat at rates from 6107 to 28636 Btu/hr. This wood heater has a manufacturer-set minimum low burn rate that must not be altered"

As an owner of this model stove, I would like to understand the purpose of this statement and how the burn rates were derived and why they are so different from other models that have similarly sized and shaped fireboxes. Because it's not a small difference. I just checked the Blaze King website to see if the PDF Owner's Manual had been changed/updated or fixed in the previous 6 months but it still says the exact same thing! So maybe the 6107 Btu/hr low burn rate is a not a typo but the actual test data provided by OMNI laboratories?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Actually, as I posted earlier, today, it must be a typo. We will get it sorted out.

Just curious what you learned.

 

[Squirrely]

Okay, lets recap. I hope we can all agree with the fact that every single (freestanding wood) stove delivers both radiant and convective heat to the living space. Basic stuff. There is no stove on the market, not even possible, to only deliver one or the other. Physics and all that. If you can't get to this level then it's going to be really hard to understand anything else.

Some stove manufacturer probably has done the test to know whether the most radiant stove on the market still only provides 60% of it's heat through radiation or is it a 90/10 split. I believe that there is not that much difference between the most radiant and the most convective stoves on the market like 60/40 to 40/60 spread after having owned both.

That last part is an opinion, one where we all get a vote, where many subjective factors that may be unique to our vote come in to play. Whether or not it even makes much difference if the stove delivers heat in a more radiant or more convective fashion. Because in a regular house, energy added to the room increases the temperature of the room regardless of how that energy is delivered.

Your descriptions are spot on.

As long as our stove is located inside our house... it will heat the inside of our house.

I took the heat shield off the rear of the stove because the whole back side is the intake manifold for the secondary air, so it always stays quite cool relative to the rest of the stove. And I think that old fashioned cast iron looks way better than sheet metal ever could, no matter how nicely it's formed.

A fan built into the wall behind the stove offers us the option to choose.

Off = Radiant
On = Convective


Greg

 

[BKVP]

I'm in the office today for a bit, and Wednesday. Call me if you wish to discuss.....
509-522-2730
BKVP

Just curious what you learned.

 

[Smolder]

You two seem to be bickering back and forth, without a real disagreement. lol

Highbeam did qualify his statement twice, stating "in a common style house." He is mostly correct in my opinion, that in a well-insulated stick-frame house, the difference is reduced. Likewise, begreen is using the example of an old farmhouse, one of the situations where the difference really stands out. Both correct, different qualifiers.

In my case, having each stove surrounded by 20" thick stone walls, my old radiant stoves put the majority of their heat into my back yard. A radiant stove works by heating the high-mass objects around them, which in turn heat the air around them, but there's no hope of heating millions of pounds of exterior exposure stone work. My newer convective stoves do a much better job of heating the air in my house, which is the only hope of heating any old masonry house without framed-in and insulated walls.

Same deal, different medium. My walls are 14-15” of solid red brick (no airgap), with plaster on the brick on the inside. The convective stove puts most of the heat in the room. The wall behind is hot summer day hot, but only after days of heating. I am happy these exist because i would have never got it in the place I wanted it and I would be, as you said, heating the outdoors.

 

[Smolder]

Just realized i woke up a zombie thread from the past... sorry... silly google.

 

[Ashful]

Hah... no worries. Always fun to reminisce.

 

[Tron]

Just realized i woke up a zombie thread from the past... sorry... silly google.

And Google found it for me, as I am also interested in a Chinook 30 ;-)

For what it's worth, the manual for the Chinook 30.2 (newer model, I suppose) now says:

Under specific test conditions this heater has been shown to deliver heat at rates ranging from 11553 to 27116 Btu/hr.

 

[BKVP]

And Google found it for me, as I am also interested in a Chinook 30 ;-)

For what it's worth, the manual for the Chinook 30.2 (newer model, I suppose) now says:

OK...now hear this (read) Btu's cannot be compared from stove to stove for multiple reasons. There is a greater degree of validity to the EPA new method of reports Btu's, but even then, you must be careful.

There are 2 test methods. One end at 100% of fuel consumption, the other at 90%. This matters because the total energy input is divided by the duration of the run. Also, the second method (cord wood) allow for 40% more fuel to be inserted into the heater.

One day....I hope...EPA will have a single method. No game playing with the numbers!

I have to get going but want to give you an example. The new KE40 is listed at approx. 34k Btu's. It was tested on crib fuel Method 28R. So to help clarify this apples to banana comparison, I asked the lab rats to run the exact same stove on the cord wood method (currently ASTM) and get the peak Btu's. 55K is the answer!! So you can see very clearly that Btu's matter, but can't be compared to other stoves without first getting beyond brochure and website marketing numbers.

Sorry short rant, but have to run....

 

[Tron]

Thanks for the insight. I totally understand that there are so many variables involved that it is really hard to get reliable data. Not that I need them.
I'm currently just figuring out what size stove I need, so that I can run it somewhere in between it's low and high specs. Just trying to neither over- nor undersize.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I went through a lot of thinking about sizing a couple of years ago. If you want some reading that will have some bearing on using a woodstove in a warm climate, here’s an old thread where I was getting help working through this. Much of it won’t be relevant to you, but a few posts dealing with Blaze Kings and heat requirements might.

Suggestions/Insights for heating with wood in South Texas

You may want to investigate another option - a hearth heater. Our home had the same majestic unit (20-inch clearance). I could have installed a Regency I1200 or a H2100, which is a hearth heater. I opted for the hearth heater for the additional heating and a slightly bigger firebox. Heats...

www.hearth.com

It may have been in that years BK Performance thread that I asked a lot about the 20 vs. 30 size. The argument that won in my mind was that the 30 box is bigger, but the clearances are smaller, so it’s just as easy to install in an alcove. It turns down just as low (or lower) so you won’t be oversizing, and it’s less worry to load and cut wood to size. If you do want a nice flame show and radiant heat, just turn up the thermostat.

 

[Highbeam]

And Google found it for me, as I am also interested in a Chinook 30 ;-)

For what it's worth, the manual for the Chinook 30.2 (newer model, I suppose) now says:

Note that it doesn't say for how long it can put out that heat rate. What good is it that you get 27000 btu for some short period of time? I agree with the posters, ignore the BTU output rating and look at firebox size.

I can get 45 lbs of low density (evergreen) fuel into a 2.85 cubic foot firebox princess model BK. If you need to burn 100# of wood per day then that just means you will need to refill 2x per day. Any modern stove will be similar. The noncat style will burn quicker so your house temp will be less even than one that can burn at a steady output.

Just get a 3+ CF stove and burn it! Your 3000 SF is not too small.

I really didn't know that there were cold areas of MS.

 

[Tron]

Yes, I think I will go with a 3-cu-ft firebox, so a "30" model.

Well, on average MS is not really cold in the winter (compared to the Northern States), but basically anytime outside temperatures drop below your comfort temperature (of, say, 72F) for more than a few hours, you need some form of heat source to keep the house comfortable. And that does happen quite a lot in winter, although only between November and February. So three months of the year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson,_Mississippi#Climate

I totally get it that with us paying around $100-150 for natural gas in winter, a Chinook will never pay for itself. Call it a luxury item, then ;-)

 

[Ashful]

Yes, I think I will go with a 3-cu-ft firebox, so a "30" model.

Well, on average MS is not really cold in the winter (compared to the Northern States), but basically anytime outside temperatures drop below your comfort temperature (of, say, 72F) for more than a few hours, you need some form of heat source to keep the house comfortable. And that does happen quite a lot in winter, although only between November and February. So three months of the year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson,_Mississippi#Climate

I totally get it that with us paying around $100-150 for natural gas in winter, a Chinook will never pay for itself. Call it a luxury item, then ;-)

In case anyone is interested, here's the Jackson average temperatures:

Most here would say your only opportunity to burn would be overnights Nov. - Mar., with maybe occasional cloudy days Dec. - Feb. if your house is poorly insulated. This is because other heat sources (cooking, electronics, etc.) and solar gain can make it difficult to run a stove in most houses when the temperature is anywhere near 60F or warmer. This is why you will see 65F used as the typical baseline for heating degree day calculations, most houses will hold 72 - 73F with outside temperature averaging 65F over 24 hours.

Of course, you say you still need heat when it's 55F - 65F, but remember a stove can't be stopped once started, and achieving a clean burn means maintaining a certain burn rate. There's only so far you can turn down, and so people find themselves cooked out of their own living room, several hours after lighting a stove on an insufficiently-cold day.

Of course, you're already settled on BK, and so you probably already know about turn-down. You will do well with this choice, as most other choices would've had you sacrificing more firebox volume and burn time for low output capability.

 

[Woody Stover]

In case anyone is interested, here's the Jackson average temperatures:

Wow, those winter averages, highs and lows, are fifteen degrees warmer than here..

 

[Tron]

Wow, those winter averages, highs and lows, are fifteen degrees warmer than here..

Well, we are 500 Miles south of Southern Indiana ;-)