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Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by BoilerBob, May 3, 2013.

  1. leon

    leon New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    98

    Yes,

    The Harmon hand fired wood and coal boilers are non gassers.

    The combustion chamber they have is a very efficient design.

    They offer a firebox reducer to permit the end user to have DHW
    during the off season as well.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
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    1,571
    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    Leon, I don't want to be a kill-joy here, but I welded in C channel into my NY for firebrick, Welded in a shelf for a vermiculite baffle so to keep the flue gasses in the tall firebox longer, and SS secondary air tubes, and I saw little wood reduction. It was a sooty crampt job and really a waste of time looking back. When you have only just underfire air, no matter how efficient your heat exchanger is, you still have unburned wood gas (smoke) escaping up the flue, and thats useable heat that could have made it to the water-jacket and done something useful. This is why I bought a gasser. Asside from the loop in the top of the firebox, the NY is the same thing with shaker grates as well. There is no substitute for a fire-tubed HX, and the only way that will work is with complete conbustion before you extract the heat from the flue gasses. I'm convinced that all wood-coal boilers are really coal boilers, that you can also burn wood in.

    TS
    maple1 likes this.
  3. NE WOOD BURNER

    NE WOOD BURNER Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
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    663
    This is an interesting statement.(no disagreement)

    doing things right= batchburning to storage?

    I strongly believe if a person already has a non epa wood stove or if they have a non epa OWB or an EPA rated OWB that doing things right would mean that they follow best burning practices. This is stressed by the gasser OWB dealers I spoke with. But many end users do not follow. or they get trapped without dry wood which seems to happen. here on this site it is recommend to get your wood first and let it dry(4-8cords). If you did that for a non epa OWB you would need to have basically 32 cords of wood ready for your first season. then maintain there after.
    Burning to storage has a cost factor of installation if you want to buy all new. When I took my residential energy class years ago. The hope of the professor was that the cost of the storage would eventually come down with competition. I think it is now just starting to hit the point of competition or inguinity.
    I have seen installs of OWB with additional storage but the additional storage was designed to keep the fire going and thus it added very little benifit of BTU's to house. If a home and shop are plumbed correctly with a thermal storage unit(TSU). I strongly believe that an OWB could be used as an appliance to heat the TSU. So in my mind a builder building Mcmansions would be a friend to the indoor boiler community if he where to suggest Thermal storage and radiant heating in the build. Then the home owner owner could buy what ever appliance they wanted. When the appliance is rendered inoperable then a sales opportunity exists to sell a shed and an IWB with little cost to implement.
    So my point is: you never get 100% compliance but you can always do better. so trade/professional groups would be a great place to educate on batch burning to storage to start the ball rolling.
  4. leon

    leon New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    98
    Whoopsie on my part Boilerman;

    I forgot to mention that I have an overfire
    draft/secondary air supply in my 32 year old Switzer coal and wood boiler


    leon
  5. leon

    leon New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    98




    NO, we are not bad, WE see the light through the haze of smoke others
    have been spewing for years.

    IF I could build the Lil Albert or Big Bossman designs modifying them slightly by
    building a cylindrical firebox totally filled with firebrick and offer them for sale with
    1,000 gallons additional storage, and a water trap for soot and a second induced draft, I would do it in a heart beat because all there would be for exhaust is steam and a bit of odor from the
    creosote in the water trap.





    Edited today by leon at 341 EST
  6. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    7,088
    Loc:
    N.E. Penna
    No point in bashing other internet sites here.
    heaterman, maple1 and Jags like this.
  7. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
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    3,039
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan

    Very true.
    Lot's of things I would like to say not only at AS but here also.........but I don't because it would just kick the hornet nest so to speak.
    Seems like our country as a whole is all about an us vs them mentality......maybe fostered by our politicians and media.....but it shouldn't be that way. We all have something to learn from one another and from what I have learned so far in this life, no one has all the answers by himself.

    "If I have made friends of my enemies, have I not destroyed them?"
    Abraham Lincoln
    BoilerMan and pen like this.
  8. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    Why not just have a Garn and loose the water trap and gain all the efficiency. Open system for all those scared of pressureized hot water too.

    TS
  9. leon

    leon New Member

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    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
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    Hello TS,



    I burn coal too because I am so exposed to the winds so thats a big
    issue with my old one room school house that is so poorly insulated.
  10. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Apr 16, 2012
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    1,571
    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    Oh, I was just saying because the design you listed is basically a Garn, but with a water trap. Don't know if you can burn coal in a Garn.............

    Re-side that old school house, and put at least 2" of blue board benieth the siding, or two layers 2" and some other thickness and stagger the seams and tape them all with Venture tape, the $$$$$ you'd save on even coal would pay for the project and keep you more comfortable too!

    TS
  11. NE WOOD BURNER

    NE WOOD BURNER Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    PRICES ARE DROPPING!

    [​IMG]
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    E-Classic 3200
    Ignition Ready

    US $16,065 MSRP *
    -$1,700 Heating Up Rebate
    $14,365 [​IMG]
    FINANCE NOW

    Door
    Firebox
    Weight
    Water Capacity 22.5"x28.5"
    40"x48"x30"
    3,050 lbs.
    410 Gallons [​IMG]
    8-Hr Output Rating
    12-Hr Output Rating

    Manufacturer’s Rated
    Heat Output Capacity 262,000 Btu/hr †
    175,000 Btu/hr


    306,000 Btu/hr †
  12. leon

    leon New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
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    I could certainly try to buy a brood herd of four 490-gallon insulated storage tanks
    from New Horizons for that kind of money and still afford to buy the schedule 80 pipe,
    elbows, unions, 5 air vents, 5 boiler drain valves, pipe dope, 1 air scoop,
    1 tank mounted temperature guage, 2 by 4 by 8 foot and 6 by 6 by 8 foot PT lumber to
    make a floor and frame to set them on and still use my old boiler I think.
  13. 12k for 2000 gallons of storage doesn't seem cost effective to me.
  14. leon

    leon New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    98


    With the old wood and coal boiler paid for in 1986 I have no incentive to buy a
    new one unless i have a water jacket failure.


    The storage would be an improvement whereI would only need one fire a day on cold days and possibly two fires in very cold weather when are not tending a small hot burn during the day.


    Even the Harmon SF240 would work well with storage if the water jacket failed on my old boiler.


    With oil going up I am using more coal and I will run out of wood this burning season most likely.


    I can get a great fire with charcoal briquets in a pinch so thats certainly a plus for my place as it is very hard to heat some days with the wind coming from the west. If I lived in the bottom of the valley heating would be easier but I live at 1,140 feet above mean sea level.


    I will probably purchase a pellet burning basket to try this year and have a drop in bin made to let my coal burn with gravity feed without banking it this year too. I will probably have to remove a pile of firebrick to do that but I will leave the remainder of it and the channel iron used to keep it above the grates.
  15. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    You could do 2000 gallons of storage using propane tanks for less than the cost of one of those tanks.
    mikefrommaine likes this.

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