Buck model 94 or Englander 30 NC

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

My parents have a resturant that they use a stove that is old. It heats the volume well but also heats the outside volume well ;-). Not sure of type but it has a woods scene on it, a large fire box and an 8" opening. I was looking at the Model 94 which has a 4.4 cubic ft fire box and an 8" opening. So it would be plug and play. I get really good deals on them as my buddy is a dealer for them. Not to mention I have a model 74 that really throws heat and is very well built!

However, I can also get the Englander 30 NC for a bit more than half the price with a 3.5 cubic ft fire box and a 6" opening. I thought that these stoves were "cheap" cause of where you can get them but after reading the reveiws here, I think I love em!

The stove will go in and open floor plan about 1200 square ft and I think either will do very well but my question is this:

They already have 8" I.D., double wall, maybe triple, they did pay some serious coin for this. Is it possible to stuff a 6" flex liner through the 8" pipe? The 8" is in great shape inside and out and don't want to discard. Or is it possible to use and adapter from 8" to 6"? I would like this to be legal and most importantly, safe! The pipe now is about 20'. Throw some ideas please, thank you!

 

[begreen]

Yes, they make 6" to 8" adapters. If the pipe is straight up, 20ft, it should draft ok. How high are the ceilings in the restaurant? The Buck 91 sounds a bit oversized. It sounds like they could heat the place just fine with the Model 85 or the 80 if they want the cat version.

 

[jeff_t]

I haven't seen too many favorable reviews of the 94, it's pretty new. The 91 cat stove has been around a long time and has a pretty good rep. It takes an 8" flue. Since you can get a good deal on a Buck.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Ceilings are 8' where the stove will go but the other part is 11'. It is a large brick veneered building, somewhat insulated well but they use this stove as a primary heat source, long burns are ideal.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I dig what you are saying about the cat stove! I know they require some maintenance and when I am not there, it won't get done!

The reveiw I read on here about the 94 was not good! I don't know the guy and hope not to offend anyone, never my intention. But it seemd like no matter what he got he would not be happy..... I mean he had a lot of stoves and gave them little chance to learn how they roll. Once I figured out my stove, it rolls very nice.

My buddy has sold a few of the 94s and the customers love them! He said you have to burn very well seasoned wood and they all do. He is actually trying to sell his 91 cat to get the 94. Timmy don't like to waste money! Long burns and Buck quality. The ability of either stove is not so much what I question....I just want to make the right choice for the flue size and pipe they have.

 

[begreen]

The 94 sounds like overkill for this application. As long as only clean, dry wood is burned, a cat stove needs minimal maintenance. Do they have several cords of seasoned wood already on hand?

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

They buy their wood from an old fellow who basically cuts wood for a hobby. I think my parents are his only customer and he does not burn wood him self. His wood has been CSS for quite a few years. I don't think this will be an issue unless he moves on to a better place! I try to get get wood for the both of us but the distance between us and my never ending "honey do list" makes it difficult. I have to go to work to work less!

However, on another friends property there are a couple oak and ash or locust trees that are down that we will load onto a trailer for them. This will be in the fall. To hot now and there is several cord there, easy! My old man loves to split by hand and will do it all day. I will bring down my splitter and we can "go to town". I am pretty well stack for a couple of years and my supply is very close and free!

The thing about the large fire box is that the stove will be loacted near the entrances to the resturant. It gets cold here and I sort like the idea of you can build a small fire in a large box but not the opposite!

 

[begreen]

At 2.6 cu ft, the 80's firebox is not tiny.

 

[Todd]

At 2.6 cu ft, the 80's firebox is not tiny.

That's about the same actual size of the NC-30. I'd go with the big boy from Buck.

 

[leeave96]

I think the Buck stoves are top shelf in quality - great stoves.

Were it me, I'd pick the 91 for the cat and lower burns, but the customers coming in might like the light show of a secondary tube stove (is that is how it works) and the 94 might fit the bill too.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Hiram Maxim]

At 2.6 cu ft, the 80's firebox is not tiny.

I'd go with the big boy from Buck.

+1

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I think you guys are right! I like the light show myself I know the Bucks are built like tanks. I actually spoke to a tech from Buck and he said that stove will handle anything you throw at it for a long time to come.

Thanks alot, that's why I asked! You get good honest answers from good honest people!

 

[begreen]

Whatever you folks end up getting, be sure to take some pictures and let us know how it works out, ok?

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Oh, for sure!

 

[ddddddden]

If I were not trying to heat an en0rmous space, I wouldn't want a 4.4-cu-ft non-cat. This may not be the final word on burn control, but it makes sense to me. www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm Maybe your buddy will give you a sweet deal on his Buck 91. . .

 

[BrotherBart]

If I were not trying to heat an en0rmous space, I wouldn't want a 4.4-cu-ft non-cat.

Being able to stand up in the firebox is a good thing. :coolsmirk:

Seriously. Do a search here on "EBT". It ain't the be all and end all of burn control.

 

[begreen]

True. If you want regulation then put in a BK with a thermostat.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

True. If you want regulation then put in a BK with a thermostat.

A biased +1 :lol:

 

[ddddddden]

If I were not trying to heat an en0rmous space, I wouldn't want a 4.4-cu-ft non-cat. . .

Being able to stand up in the firebox is a good thing. :coolsmirk:

Seriously. Do a search here on "EBT". It ain't the be all and end all of burn control.

Yeah, I've heard that EBT ain't all that. I wasn't suggesting that he buy a Summit. I was saying that Oyen's analysis of jumb0 non-cats makes sense. If I couldn't shut off the air, I wouldn't want a stove that held ~100 lbs of wood.


http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm

. . .Like all non-catalytic EPA approved stoves, the 3-cubic-foot capacity Pacific Summit, Summit Classic , Alderlea T6 and Summit Insert rely on a secondary burn chamber to reburn the exhaust gases from the primary fire. In order for the fire in the secondary burn chamber to ignite and stay lit, a minimum firebox temperature must be maintained, which requires that an adequate supply of combustion air be available, even when the draft control is turned down to its lowest setting. To address this need, manufacturers of non-catalytic woodstoves typically incorporate a "stop" in the design of the air intake control, to ensure that adequate air enters the firebox even when the draft control is turned down as far as it will go. In larger fireboxes with bigger loads to burn, this "minimum" airflow to the fire can be considerable. This abundance of combustion air is delivered to the fire even when it might not be needed, and thus can cause faster than necessary fuel consumption during the other stages of the fire. . .

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I thought I mentioned this but after rereading my first post, I did not. The area is not insulated so well.. The building is a huge brick building with insulation but not enough! When the buiding gets cold it stays cold. They have oil heat and the funny thing is the gas company is right accross the street but no one in the area has gas!?!?!?!?! Strange! One part is glass block windows and the other is 50 year old anderson windows, new ones are coming soon. From this link you can see a crappy photo of the outside http://www.ryesbar.com/ .

The smoke dragon dragon they use actually does pretty good and saves them a dump truck load of money intead of using oil.

On a side not I spent the weekend with my nephew who is 17 and smart as a whip repairing and rerouting flex duct for the an ac unit that has an air handler in the attic. My parents have spent money fist fulls of money repairng/band aiding HVAC stuff for years. People are vey happy to take your money but not do the work properly. These folks are not just some schmo off the street but folks with licences and buisnesses that make good money. And the worst part is they are friends of the family! Scumbags! If you know folks like them, shame on them for 6 years!

We did some repairs, sealing, shortening of runs, etc... I was like swiss cheese. So after doing some minor things we increased air flow by a significant amount and cooling too. After the major repairs are done, which really are not that major. You will can hang beef in the joint!

Sorry! Rant over.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I thought I mentioned this but after rereading my first post, I did not. The area is not insulated so well.. The building is a huge brick building with insulation but not enough! When the buiding gets cold it stays cold. They have oil heat and the funny thing is the gas company is right accross the street but no one in the area has gas!?!?!?!?! Strange! One part is glass block windows and the other is 50 year old anderson windows, new ones are coming soon. From this link you can see a crappy photo of the outside http://www.ryesbar.com/ .

The smoke dragon dragon they use actually does pretty good and saves them a dump truck load of money intead of using oil.

On a side not I spent the weekend with my nephew who is 17 and smart as a whip repairing and rerouting flex duct for the an ac unit that has an air handler in the attic. My parents have spent money fist fulls of money repairng/band aiding HVAC stuff for years. People are vey happy to take your money but not do the work properly. These folks are not just some schmo off the street but folks with licences and buisnesses that make good money. And the worst part is they are friends of the family! Scumbags! If you know folks like them, shame on them for 6 years!

We did some repairs, sealing, shortening of runs, etc... I was like swiss cheese. So after doing some minor things we increased air flow by a significant amount and cooling too. After the major repairs are done, which really are not that major. You will can hang beef in the joint!

Sorry! Rant over.

Old place, drafty, bad windows, brick, and they are used to a smoke dragon = go large. Go with the big Buck.

I can relate to old and drafty. Just go large.

 

[begreen]

How much heat does the kitchen generate, especially with the pizza oven going? Is this heat exhausted or recovered?

 

[ddddddden]

Yeah, if poorly insulated, I can see the desire for a big stove, but I'm still trying to see why someone would go for the B94 over the B91. Before the B94, the few 4+ cu-ft stoves that I knew of were cat stoves(not including the Equinox, the capacity of which is apparently even more greatly exaggerated than most stoves'.) I assumed this was due to the issue of controlling the burn in an extra large firebox. Maybe Buck has learned some new tricks, but I don't know if anyone has burned a 94 for a complete season yet. Kinda seems like the jury is still out on that model. Where does your buddy hope to improve on his 91, higher peak output? You said, "long burn times would be ideal." I doubt that the 94 can equal the burn times of the 91. Either way, it's sweet to have a buddy who's a dealer!

 

[ddddddden]

Masonry heater pizza oven! Niiice!

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

The pizza oven is under hood that exhaust the heat out. Well, every thing that puts out heat is under exhaust hood.

As for going from buck 91 to 94 I can only assume as I have heard him say that folks he sold to rave about long burn times and heat output. Timmy is a guy who must have the newest and the best.

At my parent's place I think the least amount of maintenance and heat output is the key. They will have to learn how to burn differently in this stove and that may be enough for them. Having to learn how to burn in a cat stove may throw them into melt down!

I am still considering all possibilities and I will talk in more detail with my buddy. If he says Buck 91 then that will be that. But he highly recommended the Buck 94 from his faithful customers.