Burning down coals

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karl

Minister of Fire
Hearth Supporter
Apr 9, 2007
1,058
Huntington, West Virginia
Today has been really cold here and I have been running the stove a little harder than normal. I am having a problem burn down the coals. I raked them to the front and turned the air on high and put a few pine splits in it and left it on high. It helped some but not alot. I am wondering if part of my coal build up problem might be inadequate drafting. I have a 15 or 16 foot uninsulated stainless liner. I only have a back puffing problem on rare occaisons, so my draft isn't awful but I am at the miniums for the reccomended installation. I was wondering if I had a better draft that I could open the air control up when I was at the coal stage and help it burn down quicker. I need more heat than I'm getting with the coal bed.

Anything thoughts on this?
 
A LOT of folks complain about coals building up. I have an issue too and just assume it is normal given the repeated discussions here on the subject. I do what you do (rake/increase air) and just live with the reduced heat output for a little while. Depending on the thickness of the coal bed I might just reload on top of them. Other times it is just too many coals and I have to let them burn down. I wish I could cruise at 600 degrees load to load, but having the lower temps is just part of the burn cycle you have to accept.
 
All right, here's my take on this. After switching from an old Jotul Combifire 4 to my Woodstock Keystone, I have come up against the same problem. Never had that issue with the Combifire. I could raise the house temp 10 degrees when the windchills were -15! no problem. At times, we just plain needed the stove to burn down to cool things off. I've come to realize that my beautiful Keystone is just undersized to handle our heat needs in the coldest weather. No two ways about it, it can only burn wood so fast with it's small firebox and in really cold weather it isn't fast enough. We need the stove top to be at 600 all the time in the coldest weather and it can only do that at full load, full burn, so the coals keep building and building. Based on my experience, I ask could it be that your stove is a bit undersized for the task at hand?
 
jpl1nh said:
Based on my experience, I ask could it be that your stove is a bit undersized for the task at hand?

He has a PE Summit insert. Slightly smaller than Montana. ;-)
 
I think it is the wood Karl. The less seasoned the more the coal pile problem becomes. Rather than pull it to the front I would spread them out and burn the crap out of the stove with a couple of splits on top of them.
 
karl said:
Today has been really cold here and I have been running the stove a little harder than normal. I am having a problem burn down the coals. I raked them to the front and turned the air on high and put a few pine splits in it and left it on high. It helped some but not alot. I am wondering if part of my coal build up problem might be inadequate drafting. I have a 15 or 16 foot uninsulated stainless liner. I only have a back puffing problem on rare occaisons, so my draft isn't awful but I am at the miniums for the reccomended installation. I was wondering if I had a better draft that I could open the air control up when I was at the coal stage and help it burn down quicker. I need more heat than I'm getting with the coal bed.

Anything thoughts on this?

Coal buildup IMO depends on a few things. What type of wood you are burning. If your filling it up with oak or similar all hard woods, your going to get some significant coals. I try to load some softer wood on bottom then oak on top, the secondary helps burn the oak from the top while the soft stuff below blazes and also burns the oak from below.
I have changed my burning habits since lat year. I couldn't refrain myself from continually adding splits. This year on colder days, I load her 3x a day. Every 8 hrs. And as tempted as I am to add more splits, I wait. There is usually just a nice decent amount of coals to get the new load going without any problem. Also depends on the size I burn also. When I load her up with big splits or rounds for over night, I'll have a good amount of coals left in the morning. I pull them front & open it up 1/2 to full and let it go another couple hours or so. The temp inside the house will fluctuate maybe from 73 or so down to 70 usually. I can deal with that. You have to learn your own burning habits and figure a time period when you have the amount of coals you desire. I myself don't think your going to get a consistent temperature for the house through all the stages of the burn, unless you continue to add splits, which will continue to add more coals.
Another factor is wood dryness, sure even in a hot fire wood a lil on the wetter side will burn, but I have found it will also charcoal & coal much more also. Also keep your ash bed to about 1"-3" tops, when it gets deeper and your moving coals, splits etc around, some coals get buried in the ash and to me don't seem to burn completely due to the ash insulating them and keeping them from burning completely.

Bottom line again is, you might find you need to space your adding of splits further apart to give the coals time to burn down to ash and keep new ones from building up on top of the ones already there. The best way I have found for me is as described above. I wait it out and let them burn down. If the house drops to 70 or hell even 68 or so, it doesn't bother me. I just do my 3 full loads a day and it works well for me. You can also try burning smaller splits, but keep in mind it will burn hotter. I do this on occasion and I cut the air back at about 300-400 degrees. On smalls she will climb to 500-600 on her own due to a good secondary blazing. Cut air back at 500 or so and she'll hover at about 700-750 for a couple hours or so, then settle back to 650, then 600 and so on and so forth. It seems the temp hovers around 600 for the longest period before the slow descent begins. Another point this makes is at the higher temps, the house will get to 76 degrees or higher, which when it slowly cools as the coals burn down, when its time for me to reload, the house temp might be 70-72 and another full load in and back up to 75 or so in no time. I have gotten used to and really don't mind a temp swing inside the house of 5 degrees or so. Hell, when its 20 or 30 something outside and its 70 or so inside, that works for me. I am heating the entire house with one insert and feel very lucky I can heat a large home as well as it is and in the 70s inside no less.
 
Same problem here today. Its colder than normal and I have been trying to keep the insert as hot as possible to keep up extra demand. Burning wet wood definitely exacerbates the problem but I had all my wood checked today so I was only burning wood below 20% MC and there is no way the caols have enough time to burn down. Right now I have the hottest fire of the day going and the thermometer mounted on the front says it is about 600. When it burns down I will lietrally have a stove full of coals, but boy does a 600 degree fire warm this house up. BTW I have been adjusting the air inlet to choke the fire a bit while it is burning and then open it up when the flames are nearly complete to burn the coals down quicker. I don't know of any other way to get around this problem, maybe someone else has can shed some light on this but i am willing to bet that it is the nature of the beast with trying to heat a lot of space with a medium sized insert on a relatively cold day.
 
I think the newer stoves with secondary air bakes the wood more and allows the wood to hold its shape longer. I've noticed that when I open the primary often the wood collapses almost like it was being held together by pressure.
 
I have a slightly different take on this. My experience has been that NO stove I've ever owned can continuously burn down the coals left by the previous load if the stove is stuffed to the gills. So the question becomes: with what size and type of load can it do so? The answer is different for every different stove and type of wood used.

For the Quad 2100, what works is burning 2 large (6"-7") rounds (preferred) or splits per load. That gives 2+ hours of flame during which it also burns down the previous coals. Reload and repeat. No coals buildup.

For the Jotul F602, it's three small (3"-4") splits, giving an hour or so reload cycle.

If you have the option, burning N/S also helps reduce coals buildup.
 
I agree with Hog. I wait and reload every 8 or 12 hrs depending on how cold it is outside. My house temps go up and down some, but I don't mind. I could get greedy and put 3 splits in every 3-4 hrs and maintain an even 75 in the house, but then I'd have coaling problems and go through more wood. Patients, patients, patients. Another thing I have noticed is too much left over ash in the firebox produces longer burns and more coaling, so I tend to take out a couple shovels full every other day.
 
Doctor, doctor, doctor, I need patients and am not patient enough to demonstrate my patience. ;-)

Ain't English grand?
 
BrotherBart said:
jpl1nh said:
Based on my experience, I ask could it be that your stove is a bit undersized for the task at hand?

He has a PE Summit insert. Slightly smaller than Montana. ;-)
Gee, I was really paying attention huh? :roll:
 
Thanks for all the replies and empathy. I know my wood isn't the best. It's only been drying since June and I don't know what the moisture content is. I can tell you that when I throw it on a bed of coals, it lights anywhere from instantly to maybe a minute. Therefore, I think it's pretty dry.

As for letting them burn down. This thing will burn 10 hours and still have a huge chunk of coals in it.

I'll figure something out.
 
I have a dedicated stack of pine for coal-burning, just open the air up all the way and keep tossing pine on top until reduced. Poplar will work also, and I'll also use red maple (which makes more coals than pine/poplar, but less than oak). I think precaud is probably right though that for continuous high-temp burning it's better to fill only part-way more often than to pack tight and then have to do one or more coal-burning cycles before the next packing. I do both at times.
 
How ironic ! I am reading this thread & I notice the house is a bit chilly. (96 yr old mom wants 78 * all the time & she got me used to it ,now!) I used to be happy with 67*!

So,I go down to the stove,in the basement & stack temp is 180*, so I open the stove door & there is this 4 inch deep bed of red embers. Thats why it feels a tad chilly.

Of couse, I had to throw a round & two splits on it, just so mom wouldn't complain,yet again.

I would have been perfectly happy(before) to let the embers burn down for another 4 hours & just put on a sweater, but gotta keep 78* going 4 mom.

So, this thread hit me right between the eyes, bigtime!

edit:

It just occured to me ,two weeks ago, before I converted my 1960 smoke dragon to epa type non smoking dragon (on the "no smoking" patch)hee-hee, secondary burn & lined the firebox with firebrick, I never had coals to worry about as a full load was all consumed in just 3.5 hours, coals & all. Now I get 3 .5 hrs wood burn & up to 12 hr embers glow; so ,I should complain. nhooo!
LG (life's good)!
 
Karl,
Try loading her up with say 3 large splits/rounds etc., then fill the top with mediums/smalls. Get her up to about 500 or so, cut the air back all the way and see if she'll get to around 700 or so. Then let it burn. I do this every day, sometimes in variations still experimenting. I woke up this morning to 75 degrees house temp with teens outside & windy as hell. Opened the air for about a 1/2 hour, came back from dropping the kid off and had perfect coals for reload. How hot are you trying to get the house. Is it insulated well. IMO wood burning & insulation work hand in hand. Without good insulation to keep the warmth in and cold out, it could make for an unhappy camper between loads if your losing alot of that heat. I know it ain't no colder in WV as it is here in PA.
If need be, get yourself an ash bucket and a fireplace shovel, start at front & go straight back along the floor bricks, lift, tilt a lil side to side to let the larger coals fall of and dump the rest which will be mostly ash in the bucket. Proceed to do this all a run at a time all the way across till you have gotten alot of the ash out, spread the coals and load her up. Worst case scenario, and I hate to suggest this, but scoop enough coals out to give you the room you seek.
At the higher temps inside the stove, you'll have at least a lesser amount of coals at time of reload. If ya get a chance, take us a couple photos of the amount of caols you are talking about.
 
Had the same problem yesterday; we kept the stove going all day and had coals at night when it was time to go to bed. SO, I just put two splits on, got the secondary going and let it go. The temp floated down a bit overnight, but then that was nice for sleeping. Sometimes when I have the problem overnight, I reverse it, and put the two splits on before I leave and then let the coals burn down while we are at work; either way works. Bottom line is you get coals and you have to burn them off. Every method mentioned works, its just a matter of how ya like it....
 
Hog,

How big is you house? I woke up to 59 degrees inside and the teens outside. I might have some insulation problems. I didn't think I did though. I have plenty of insulation in the attic, the walls are insulated, and I have good windows. The floor isn't insulated though.

This morning, I took two buckets of ash and unburnt coals out of it. I think this 1 inch bed of ashes is slowing things down alot.
 
The coal problem just needs some management really, like you have been doing...

If I am burning all day at home, I will ill the stove more often than doing the extended burn thing. The result of that is excess coals. SO I take the opportunity to pull them to the front a burn with a split on top of them, preferably something light and dry. I will also use a few splits to burn off the coals using different formations, thought one piece always on top of the pile in front. Sometimes it takes more than one short cycle to burn down the coal bed. The good thing is that I get pretty steady stove top temp of 450ish when burning down the coal bed - which is usually good enough to keep heating us.
 
I rake the coals forward and put a split of softwood (usually pine) at the *back* of the firebox, then open the air all the way. The pine burns fast and hot and pulls in a lot of air; said air washes the glass in front, then flows down and *over* the coals on its way back to the pine, burning the coals at a bright orange.

Repeat as needed.

I haven't had as much success with the "pine split on top of the coals" method, but putting it *behind* the coals where the air has to go thru them to get to the pine, works pretty well for me.

Eddy
 
karl said:
Hog,

How big is you house? I woke up to 59 degrees inside and the teens outside. I might have some insulation problems. I didn't think I did though. I have plenty of insulation in the attic, the walls are insulated, and I have good windows. The floor isn't insulated though.

This morning, I took two buckets of ash and unburnt coals out of it. I think this 1 inch bed of ashes is slowing things down alot.

2400 SF not including basement. Well insulated. no insulation between basement & first floor. Yes the floor can get a lil chilly at times.
Walls R19, not sure what the previous owner put up in the cathedral ceiling. Don't feel much draft wise. Open floor plan and 1/2 second story is again 1/2 open loft & 1/2 open to living room below where insert is. 1 ceiling fan going in above the liv8ing room. I do have what turned out to be a very good set up as far as circulation. I can even feel the heat when I walk past the steps to the loft on opposite end of the house. The 1" of ash is recommended in manual. It protects the fire brick on the bottom from early replacement needs. 1" shouldn't do much to slow things down. thats not enough to bury anything. now several inches can be a problem.
I take the ashes out of the front once a day or two, nowhere near 2 buckets. Is that just from overnight? Are you sure that wood is dry?
Whats the house set up? and how good is good insulated walls & attic? Not busting your stones bro, just trying to figure a way around your problem.
How cold is the basement? Mine at worst gets about 50
 
I love my coals, if you are having a problem getting rid of them then please place them in a envelope and send them to........

Ooooops... Never mind!
 
Hog it looks at though we have similar houses. Mine is a one story ranch however. I don't know the r value in the walls but they are 2x6 and insulated. r-15 maybe?

As far as two buckets of ashes. We aren't talking all white powder. They were really unburned chunks. I really cleaned it out good this morning because I was thinking the ash bed was hurting me.
 
I don't know why, but after installing a key damper stove adapter I have a lot less coals than before. The ash is more like powder now and whiter. Emptying the ash pan half as often.
 
tutu_sue said:
I don't know why, but after installing a key damper stove adapter I have a lot less coals than before. The ash is more like powder now and whiter. Emptying the ash pan half as often.


Are you saying you had a coal problem because of too much of a draft? How tall is your chimney?
 
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