Call your local HVAC store for minimum mantel clearance?!!

[brenndatomu]

I recently bought a Vogelzang Defender to use on those light heating days in the spring and fall when firing the beast in the basement (see avatar) is just too much. It's going in front of the fireplace (the gas logs are so outta here!) and I have a wood mantel that will be about 22"-23" above the top of the stove. I can not find a mantel clearance spec in the manual anywhere and I have read it cover to cover several times. The manual does have a section on installing the stove in a "fireplace install" and they do refer, via illustrated diagram, to a "mantel clearance reducer" but that is all there is, no measurements. Just an FYI, my mantel only hangs out past the stone of the fireplace 2-2.5"
So I emailed Vogelzang to get this spec, their response was "to contact my local HVAC store, to see what they say"?! WHAT THE...? Seriously?! I almost blew chocolate chip cookie chunks all over my computer when I first read their response (I was having my after work snack)
You are the manufacturer and you tell your customer to go talk to some local yocal about what a combustible clearance should be on YOUR product?!
Anyways, rant over. Can anybody tell me what a "typical" clearance would be? Hey, asking the experts on hearth has to be at least (I'm sayin better than) as good as what they told me!

 

[BrotherBart]

What would you use for a mantel defender no matter what clearance was needed?

 

[begreen]

This is a top vent stove. How are you going to connect this to the chimney if it is sitting outside of the fireplace? It requires 24" vertical rise in the connector before going horizontal according to the manual. A picture of the intended location will help here.

 

[brenndatomu]

A mantel defender? That is the first I have heard that term used. I am assuming that you are referring a heat shield (deflector)? I guess my thought was to have some sort of copper shield made if I need to have it.

Yes, top vent stove. I guess when I said in front of the fireplace, that was not entirely accurate. In front of/in, just far enough in to connect a liner, most of the stove would be out front though (right under the mantel). Yeah, pics would be good here, but our "good" camera just went on the hummer, and my old camera needs a battery pack. Guess what's gonna be on someones Christmas list!

 

[ddddddden]

I guess my thought was to have some sort of copper shield made if I need to have it. . .

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-dark-chocolate-fireview-is-ready.38154/
Copper mantel shields are niiice.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Brenn Prob no mantle clearance listed because the manual says for the defender "do not install into a fireplace" (Pg 3 of manual). Mantle clearances vary from stove to stove mfr, and is listed clearly in owners' manuals. You could refer to your local building inspector, but he prob will defer to manual statement. Good luck with this.

 

[Nick Mystic]

When I installed my Jotul F600 I recall my manual had different clearances for mantles depending on how far out the mantle protruded from the chimney/wall. I can't recall the distances for my stove, but I do remember that narrow mantles required very little clearance. However. that was based on stoves sitting in front of fireplaces, not inside them. Most any sort of sheet metal attached to the underside of the mantle with spacers to set it off the mantle by one inch should do the trick.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah, I saw the no fireplace install statement in the manual. I'm not really installing "in" the fireplace, well, I suppose a third of it is technically "in" But hey, it's a small stove in a largish fireplace, heck, it has to be better than the vent-less gas logs that have lived there for the past 15 years. Or the actual wood fires in the fireplace for the 60 years before that. I have never personally burnt wood in the fireplace, but my gas logs have chewed through much propain. With the logs running for hours on end, the mantel only ever gets about as warm as a piece of wood would if it was laying out in the sun. As I said, the mantel only sticks out past the stone a couple inches

Back to my original question. Say that I change my install to the "in front of fireplace" install that Vogelzang does allow, I still need a mantel clearance. Like I said, they do kinda sorta address the issue because they show a "mantel shield" in their illustration on page 12, but no actual numbers.

I take it there is no "typical" clearance for a mantel? Every stove is different?

I will have a shield fabbed up, I think it will be fine. I guess if it does get too warm, I'll hafta move on to plan B...which could involve a different stove. Hmmm, well, I guess I could put up a stone mantel...hmmm...

 

[mellow]

No set in gold mantel clearance, each stove a manufacturer makes could have different numbers. Vogelzang is a budget stove with budget support.

This setup might work fine, but if the mantle does catch fire even with a shield the insurance company will have a way out for not covering you. Btw, do you have to get this inspected before using?

 

[webby3650]

I would just take the mantel down. For most manufacturers that I install, the further the stove "insert" sticks out of the opening, the higher the mantel needs to be. They all differ by the way. For stoves that stick way out, 24"-30" is very common. Some allow reduction with a mantel shield.

 

[brenndatomu]

No, no inspection required here. And as far as my insurance they already know I heat with wood. When I put my Yukon furnace in last year I called my agent, he said no prob, that I was already paying the higher rate just because the house had a fireplace. I'm not concerned about having a fire because I will go overboard cautious with this install (I tend to overdo/build everything) if I'm not completely comfortable with it, or anything seems to run the least bit on the hot side, I'll change it. For example, I even monitor my duct and flue pipe temps (and have alarm points set) via a wireless BBQ thermometer on the Yukon! (learned that little trick here BTW) You gotta keep in mind too, this is not gonna be a 24/7 burner, just an evening fire to take the chill off or for a lil ambiance Not gonna be an overnight or when-we-are-not-here burner...

Thanks webby, mantel removal may be the easiest-cheapest-best solution here.

 

[ddddddden]

. . .the manual says for the defender "do not install into a fireplace. . ."

. . .I'm not really installing "in" the fireplace, well, I suppose a third of it is technically "in". . .

. . .the insurance company will have a way out for not covering you. . .

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Most stoves require 18 inch clearance. If your can hold your hand that distance without burning it your fine. Not like the stove is gonna catch fire like a chimney.

 

[begreen]

Where is that number coming from? Most stoves have alcove clearances of 84" or about 54" above the stove. This is not an insert with a surrounding convective jacket.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Where is that number coming from? Most stoves have alcove clearances of 84" or about 54" above the stove. This is not an insert with a surrounding convective jacket.

Never heard of 7 feet of clearance for anything. Alcove or not. You need 18 inches of clearance for the single wall stove pipe, for if you burn it cherry red. Not going to get a stove cherry red, Besides with a 3 inch lip it can't hold the heat like a ceiling would, there is air around 3 sides and a heat sink on the 4th.

 

[begreen]

Read up most stove manuals on alcove clearances. 84" is a pretty consistent number. There are a few exceptions that allow 36 or 48". Single wall pipe is not like a broad hot stove top. Radiant heat is the issue when close. As you know, you are never supposed to get the pipe cherry red.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

No your not. But it happens. Your not supposed to have a chimney fire either, but it happens. Clearances are for worst case scenarios, not for proper use. On the alcove, rethinking this, that must be 84 inches from the back, not the sides. Even then, that seems like a lot. If you had a 14X14 rm it would be dead center. That math is not right but you get the point.

 

[begreen]

I have never had a major chimney fire or a red pipe in over 30 years of burning. There is no reason for it happening if one is burning correctly.

Clearances are for safety, both for bad scenarios and for protection from fires caused by pyrolysis. The 84" measurement is the height of the alcove. All we are talking about is the distance from the stove top to the nearest combustibles above it. In this case that is the mantel.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

In that case, no one with less than 10 ft ceilings would be able to have a stove in an alcove, I bet 70% don't have 10 ft ceilings. Besides a ceiling is different than a mantle. A ceiling will hold the heat. Where as a mantle, the heat will pass by and dissipate.

 

[Nick Mystic]

I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding your mantle. My mantle is 22" above my stove, which is directly underneath it and the mantle sticks out 11". I put a sheet metal heat shield on the underside of the mantle with only a half inch air gap and the wood doesn't get above 130 F with the stove top reading over 650 F.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Most stoves require 5' or better to a roof. If you stove isn't UL listed for the type of install you are doing, there is a reason for it. Working at a hearth retailer I deal with it all day long..... Guy wants to run single wall connector pipe through his roof because the old stuff rusted. I say NO, sorry dude, I'm not helping you burn your house down. Dude almost always says " it's been like that for 20 years, it's fine." I have taken off so many chase tops to remove an old heatilator to replace with and FPX, SBI, Lennox etc. zero clearance fireplace and seen the plywood firestops charred 2" in. It is only a matter of time in certain situations.... don't be that guy. I'm not being mean but I pride myself in not helping people burn their homes down to save a few bucks.

 

[webby3650]

Dude almost always says " it's been like that for 20 years, it's fine."

The issue is that this is a zero tolerance system! The only symptom is that your house is on fire, that's the only way that you know there is a problem. Always better safe than sorry!

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Agreed Webby, I'm glad I'm not being a hearth Nazi alone lol

 

[ddddddden]

. . .I'm not really installing "in" the fireplace, well, I suppose a third of it is technically "in". . .

. . .If you stove isn't UL listed for the type of install you are doing, there is a reason for it. . .

. . .This setup might work fine, but. . .the insurance company will have a way out for not covering you. . .

. . .regardless of how safe the installation actually is or is not.
Ins co's are weasels.

 

[begreen]

In that case, no one with less than 10 ft ceilings would be able to have a stove in an alcove, I bet 70% don't have 10 ft ceilings. Besides a ceiling is different than a mantle. A ceiling will hold the heat. Where as a mantle, the heat will pass by and dissipate.

No, read again. I said most companies require an 84" (7') alcove ceiling height. That is about 54" over the height of many stoves. This works fine in a house with a standard 8' ceiling. A mantel is vulnerable to radiant heat, a ceiling not so much. The issue with too much heat on the underside of a mantel is pyrolysis, the long term exposure of wood to heat lowers it's ignition temp.

In the least I would add a mantel shield on 1" spacers to the underside of the mantel, but I like webby's suggestion better. Remove the mantel, maybe replace it with a stone or metal one.