Can I do these modifications to my brand new Jotul F400 Castine?

[Connecticut]

Well some progress! That is good. Couple of thoughts:

As you know from your Oslo, Jotul says to put your stove top therm on any of the 4 corners. I assume it's the same for the Castine. The corners can vary as much as 150 degrees F on my Oslo. If you have your therm on one of the "cooler" corners, you might be getting a better fire than you think.

And as I mentioned in one of my previous posts - I had to keep a window open, just a crack, or the fire would go out. Not just struggle - it would go out. Seems that your stove burned pretty well in that first hour or so and then you closed the window. Thinking that maybe this weekend when you are home, you can start the fire in the morning, leave the window open, and watch it through a full burn cycle. It might provide some clues.

If having the window open a crack is not the solution to this - then could there be something wrong with the connection to the chimney or the chimney itself? I just find it strange that your brand new stove won't burn correctly. I don't have the Castine, but it seems like it should breath much like the Oslo did.

I should add that you don't to be considering the OAK if you can't solve this by having a window open. There is nothing magical about the OAK - it simply brings in outside air in a different way. If an open window won't solve your issue, an OAK will not solve it either.

Thanks. I was going to play around with it all weekend when I'm home. I'm going to try two different methods on saturday and sunday. I'll close the window right when I get a nice hot coal bed and then on the second day I'll leave the window opened at all times. In terms of the install it's installed the same way that my Oslo was installed. The only difference here is that the clay flue is bigger than my Oslo clay flue. Check out the pics to see how big the clay flue is when I'm putting the liner inside. Would the bigger flue matter? The top plate where the chimney attaches to is 13 inches by 13 inches. I did not cut it and left it larger but I did seal with silicone so it's on pretty solid. Maybe I get an even bigger chimney cap to create more draft? I'm already at 22 feet of liner.

 

[CreosoteCowboy]

Sounds like something weird is going on with the setup.

I just had a Castine installed two weeks ago, and it easily pegs 600 degrees on a stovetop thermometer with very little blackening of the glass. With a full load, it'll cruise in the 500ish range with the air between fully off and half open.

Sounds like either the setup or the fuel is causing it to run too cool.

 

[SpaceBus]

Is your liner insulated?

It sounds like you have an air tightness issue since your stove worked great with the window cracked. Your house needs more air to run the stove. An oak prevents the cold air from entering the house and instead feeds the stove intake directly. The stove functions by hot air rising up the flue and being replaced by air entering the stove. If your house is extremely tight then very little if any air comes into the house with which to feed the stove. You are lucky there's no back draft happening!

 

[webby3650]

Just to be clear. You’ve brought some pieces of wood inside and tested freshly split room temperature pieces?

 

[webby3650]

sounds like you have an air tightness issue since your stove worked great with the window cracked

He didn’t say great, maybe better though. Still black glass and low stovetop temps. This stove can hit 800 pretty easily with good wood if you’re not careful.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Just to be clear. You’ve brought some pieces of wood inside and tested freshly split room temperature pieces?

Good double check Webby. Slightly less than dry wood could certainly be causing these kinds of "symptoms".

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Thanks. I was going to play around with it all weekend when I'm home. I'm going to try two different methods on saturday and sunday. I'll close the window right when I get a nice hot coal bed and then on the second day I'll leave the window opened at all times. In terms of the install it's installed the same way that my Oslo was installed. The only difference here is that the clay flue is bigger than my Oslo clay flue. Check out the pics to see how big the clay flue is when I'm putting the liner inside. Would the bigger flue matter? The top plate where the chimney attaches to is 13 inches by 13 inches. I did not cut it and left it larger but I did seal with silicone so it's on pretty solid. Maybe I get an even bigger chimney cap to create more draft? I'm already at 22 feet of liner.

Hmmmmm, I don't know much about liners and caps - maybe @bholler can jump in here with some advice. 22' sounds like plenty of flue- but if it's not insulated and in that big clay liner maybe the draft is reduced?

 

[begreen]

Ok so I'm back with some results. It looks like the fire burned much better last night after leaving the house window opened but it's still not as good as my old Oslo. The temps do not get up on the stove past 450 degrees. The glass was also black today when I woke up (I had the lever 25% opened). I had the window to the outside opened for a good hour and once I closed the stove door I also closed the house window. I took some pictures of how the fire looked and how it changed once I closed the stove door. I am also attaching how the stove is inserted into the fireplace (pic taken after I finished installing so different day).

I will try to get it going a few more times and then I might explore the idea of attaching the OAK kit.

If anybody has any other ideas then please let me know. Would taking the Baffle 2 from the top make a difference? It's the little plate that sits on top of the baffle that can be taken out very easily.

The stove is starved for air. Closing the window after an hour cut of the fresh air supply. It needs an OAK.

 

[bholler]

Hmmmmm, I don't know much about liners and caps - maybe @bholler can jump in here with some advice. 22' sounds like plenty of flue- but if it's not insulated and in that big clay liner maybe the draft is reduced?

Well it absolutely should be insulated. But I doubt that is the issue.

 

[Connecticut]

Hey guys. So maybe I found an issue but not sure. Can someone please comment on the below?

When I installed the stove I made the cutout in the blocking plate maybe two inches too large just in case I wanted to center the stove without disconnecting the black pipe. So there is basically an inch space all around between the pipe as it's going through the plate into the chimney. I was cleaning the stove on top yesterday and I noticed that some of the dust was getting sucked up in there which is going into the chimney. It seems that there is a draft going in there. Is it possible that all the air from the fireplace box is getting sucked up in there and it's choking the stove? I just ordered a small piece of insulation which is used for kilns and I'll try to seal the hole around the pipe (should I do anything on top of the chimney?) One more thing, today before work I lit a match and tested whether it would suck up the smoke...sure enough the gap between the pipe was sucking up the smoke from the match. Please take a look at the attached pics.

 

[moresnow]

Seal it or replace it possibly with a 2 piece plate that actually fits nicely and is insulated on top. My thoughts. @bholler would have a good opinion to hear. If nothing else right now you are sending significant heat outbound!

 

[JVB]

Might not be a bad idea to spend $35-$45 on a Dwyer Manometer so you know what your draft is & you'll be able to see if you make any improvements. Amazon product ASIN B009PAN3C8

 

[webby3650]

Did you stuff the void around the liner with insulation at the top? And seal the top plate down with silicone?

 

[Connecticut]

Did you stuff the void around the liner with insulation at the top? And seal the top plate down with silicone?

No, I did not stuff the void with insulation. Is that my problem? I did seal the chimney plate down with silicone.

 

[begreen]

The area above the block-off plate is typically packed with kaowool or roxul insulation. That will help. You could use 1" stove door rope gasket to seal the gap or make a 2 piece, 6" round trim collar to fit around the pipe. If you go that get some proper aviation snips (red and/or green) to avoid making fishhook cuts.

What does the black stove pipe elbow connect to and how are they joined?

 

[Connecticut]

The area above the block-off plate is typically packed with kaowool or roxul insulation. That will help. You could use 1" stove door rope gasket to seal the gap or make a 2 piece, 6" round trim collar to fit around the pipe. If you go that get some proper aviation snips (red and/or green) to avoid making fishhook cuts.

What does the black stove pipe elbow connect to and how are they joined?

I might just add insulation but that would require that I take it all down for the most part. Your other suggestion of cutting out a new ring would work as well, would need to get the green snips (I do have the yellow ones and the red ones but it just wasn't working for me).

The black stove pipe connects directly to the appliance connector like this one in the link. I screwed in self tapping screws. The appliance connector is connected to the flexible chimney liner.

(broken link removed to https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Appliance-Connector?st-t=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp5SLh6DP5wIVCpyzCh05FwdhEAQYASABEgIYhPD_BwE#252Diameter%3A6%22)

 

[bholler]

I might just add insulation but that would require that I take it all down for the most part. Your other suggestion of cutting out a new ring would work as well, would need to get the green snips (I do have the yellow ones and the red ones but it just wasn't working for me).

The black stove pipe connects directly to the appliance connector like this one in the link. I screwed in self tapping screws. The appliance connector is connected to the flexible chimney liner.

(broken link removed to https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Appliance-Connector?st-t=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp5SLh6DP5wIVCpyzCh05FwdhEAQYASABEgIYhPD_BwE#252Diameter%3A6%22)

What needs to be done to make this install right is to pull the liner insulate it. Pull the block off plate and insulate above it after dropping the liner. Reinstall the plate with a ring to cover that gap. Then install an outside air kit pulling air from outside not from the garage.

 

[Connecticut]

What needs to be done to make this install right is to pull the liner insulate it. Pull the block off plate and insulate above it after dropping the liner. Reinstall the plate with a ring to cover that gap. Then install an outside air kit pulling air from outside not from the garage.

Thanks. Does it matter how long the outside air kit is? In other words, I can run it through my ash hole down into the basement and then take it another 15 feet across the basement to the outside.

 

[bholler]

Thanks. Does it matter how long the outside air kit is? In other words, I can run it through my ash hole down into the basement and then take it another 15 feet across the basement to the outside.

If you go that far run smooth rigid pipe and upsize it an inch.

 

[Connecticut]

If you go that far run smooth rigid pipe and upsize it an inch.

Thank you. And one last question please....does it matter how many turns it takes or will each turn decrease efficiency?

 

[bholler]

Thank you. And one last question please....does it matter how many turns it takes or will each turn decrease efficiency?

Each turn adds resistance so use as few as possible

 

[Connecticut]

Hello. I am in the process of installing the OAK kit which will run through my ash hole. The OAK kit which comes with my stove has a 3 inch opening. My ash drop is more like 8 inches by 5 inches. This means I can fit something bigger in there and then run it outside. Are there any drawbacks if I go bigger or does the air intake need to be exactly 3 inches? I'd prefer to go bigger but not sure if bigger is better in this case. Any advice? Thank you.

Pic of my ash drop after I removed the door. I cleaned out about 10 gallons of ashes down on the bottom. At one point it just dropped and shot out ashes all over me and the basement.

 

[begreen]

It depends on the length of the run, but no, there is no harm in going up to 4" if you want. It just means a 4x3 reducer will be needed, which is an extra part.