Can I dump the propane company? Pellet heat for a poorly insulated, bad layout house?

[Tom2]

Sick of propane bills..Nearly $3/gallon around here.. Would like to completely eliminate it and sell my furnace. 100K BTU, just bought 2 years ago. It's too big for the house and short cycles. We kept the T-stat at 58-63* and it was still costing us a fortune.

The house is a 70s split level ranch. Stairs and walls every time you turn around.. Windows, insulation are pretty terrible.

I would need to tie into the duct work to heat everything. Or, I think I'd have to run a pellet stove upstairs, and down stairs to heat the entire home. We never use the downstairs, so we would only need to run it on the coldest of days.

The other option would be to get a smaller 72K btu furnace (would fit the house better), and just run a pellet stove upstairs. Only needing to kick the furnace on once in a while on the coldest days to keep the lower level from freezing. But then I have the joy of opening surprise propane bills. And I think if I don't burn at least an entire tank each year - they can charge a rental fee.

Is there a fairly affordable pellet furnace that can do all of this? Would it be dependable enough as a sole source of heat? The ones I see look to be very expensive. Would be quite an investment that would take a few years to recoop..

Are 2 pellet stoves a good / bad idea? At least if one were to act up/break - the other one could still run and keep the place from freezing. Thinking a 1500 sq/ft unit on each level would be enough.

Also, what brand of stove to look for? I've mainly been looking on Craigslist - since you can save so much versus a new unit.. Are the typical Home Depot / Lowes brands decent.

Sorry for all the questions.. Been pondering this for years and am very close to making a decision this year. Determined to stay warm this winter!

 

[dac122]

Tom2,

I think the two stove idea is a good one given your layout. Like many, including myself, you can keep your existing inadequate system as backup.

Craigslist is a good place to look for used stoves. That is where I purchased my Jamestown, but good deals are hard to come by.

Since you are in my area I think I can safely say what you see at Lowes and HD are just re-badged Englanders. Like a few others here we have bid on ebay Englanders sold by Andy (amfm7203) from Ebay. He is an authorized refurbisher of Englander stoves complete with real warranty I have had to use.

Feel free to PM me if you like. I am just in your backyard or maybe closer.

 

[vvvv]

put the pstove towards the N side to cope with prevailing winter wind

 

[cncpro]

I have a 1400 sq ft 2-story house built in 1900 with no insulation in walls, moderate insulation in attic, and decent windows. It is vinyl sided and has a layer of asphalt shingle type exterior wall material under that and I think wood siding under that so I am getting some insulation value from all that exterior stuff but it sounds to me like your house is slightly better off than mine insulation-wise.

I have a forced air oil furnace in the basement with 90K btu which is just enough to keep the house (sort-of) warm on the coldest days here in CT.

I have a Quadrafire CB1200 on the first floor which I run 24/7 on an electronic thermostat set for 70 during the day and 60 at night. The oil furnace is VERY RARELY used (maybe 50 gals last year...) and I burn about 5 tons of pellets per year.

Heating 100% with pellets works fine for me but may not be for everybody. The room the pellet stove is in is often over 80° and the opposite corner of the house is about 60-65. The thermostat is centrally located.

The whole upstairs is probably in the 55-60° range also which is great for sleeping but can make for some seriously hard nipples when it's time for a shower !

I can't imagine it would be financially feasible to sell a furnace and exchange a smaller one. I think you'd just be better off keeping what you have to avoid losing your shirt.

My option 1... Get yourself a great big pellet stove and run the hell out of it to minimize the hit from propane. Run the propane when you need to...

My option 2... Replace the gas furnace with a wood/gas unit from http://www.yukon-eagle.com That would have been my first choice except that my basement ceiling is way too low for wood handling. Awesome system though if you research it a bit...

 

[Tom2]

Thanks for all the advice thus far..

I paid $1150 for the furnace 2 years ago. I just listed it on Craigslist for the fun of it to see if I'd get any bites. Asking price of $800. Already a couple emails. Haven't responded to anyone yet because I can't make up my mind.

I figure that $800 would help ease the cost of a pellet stove, and I'm hoping I'd get $$ back for whatever propane is in the tank? Or maybe not. I don't know..

A new 92% 72K btu furnace would be probably around $1100 with tax, propane kit, etc..

I called the furnace supplier, and he said if I ran more ducts for the furnace, it would probably run better and short cycle less. Maybe I could add a couple more ducts downstairs..but I don't know.

Obviously I'd hate to get rid of a furnace I just installed.. If it costs me nothing to keep it hooked up, then I would. And just run the pellet stove upstairs to stay comfortable, and the propane only once in a while.

I just wish I had a smaller, open layout house. Stick a big pellet stove in it and be done!


Here's one for only $899 : http://www.lowes.com/pd_45894-76845...e&pl=1&currentURL;=/pl__0__s?Ntt=pellet+stove
I could probably get 10% off of it as well..Maybe. Plus tax and probably delivery.
Reviews seem pretty good...but some people have gone through a lot of auger motors though..

 

[Highbeam]

You'll want to keep your central system working so you'll need to keep propane in the tank. Why not try and purchase a tank and only fill when needed? The pellet stove(s) will carry most all of your heating load so propane consumption will be minimal.

You always want to keep your central automatic system functional in case of illness, equipment failure, vacation, jail time, etc.

 

[cncpro]

Keep in mind that you may not be able to get homeowner's insurance with a pellet stove only... I am actually having a little incident regarding that right now. Somehow the ins. co. got the impression that I have fuses instead of circuit breakers and a pellet stove for primary heat...

The truth is that I have no fuses , all circuit breakers and a fully functioning oil furnace which I choose to run as little as possible... Got to see if I can get them to retract that Non-Renewal of Coverage letter they just sent...

 

[Tom2]

:bug: Jail time lol

Yea..Thats a good thought..Would never be able to leave the house more than a day with only pellets..

 

[vvvv]

:bug: Jail time lol

Yea..Thats a good thought..Would never be able to leave the house more than a day with only pellets..

pstove is appliance, gotta have "heating system" for many reasons= insurance, code....

 

[charly]

Sick of propane bills..Nearly $3/gallon around here.. Would like to completely eliminate it and sell my furnace. 100K BTU, just bought 2 years ago. It's too big for the house and short cycles. We kept the T-stat at 58-63* and it was still costing us a fortune.

The house is a 70s split level ranch. Stairs and walls every time you turn around.. Windows, insulation are pretty terrible.

I would need to tie into the duct work to heat everything. Or, I think I'd have to run a pellet stove upstairs, and down stairs to heat the entire home. We never use the downstairs, so we would only need to run it on the coldest of days.

The other option would be to get a smaller 72K btu furnace (would fit the house better), and just run a pellet stove upstairs. Only needing to kick the furnace on once in a while on the coldest days to keep the lower level from freezing. But then I have the joy of opening surprise propane bills. And I think if I don't burn at least an entire tank each year - they can charge a rental fee.

Is there a fairly affordable pellet furnace that can do all of this? Would it be dependable enough as a sole source of heat? The ones I see look to be very expensive. Would be quite an investment that would take a few years to recoop..

Are 2 pellet stoves a good / bad idea? At least if one were to act up/break - the other one could still run and keep the place from freezing. Thinking a 1500 sq/ft unit on each level would be enough.

Also, what brand of stove to look for? I've mainly been looking on Craigslist - since you can save so much versus a new unit.. Are the typical Home Depot / Lowes brands decent.

Sorry for all the questions.. Been pondering this for years and am very close to making a decision this year. Determined to stay warm this winter!

I believe you need to have a regular heating system in place, if you ever plan on selling your house down the road. Just another reason to keep something.

 

[dac122]

Here's one for only $899 : http://www.lowes.com/pd_45894-76845...e&pl=1&currentURL;=/pl__0__s?Ntt=pellet+stove
I could probably get 10% off of it as well..Maybe. Plus tax and probably delivery.
Reviews seem pretty good...but some people have gone through a lot of auger motors though..

That is an Englander. Your total will be around $970 if you pick up from Lowes, or $1,050 delivered. If you can swing additional savings great.

I have the exact model but got it as mentioned as a refurb. from ebay $760. It is a solid stove. Englander has good support and Mike Holton works for them lurks on many threads. Search the forum for more info on that stove.

 

[krooser]

Why not look into a pellet furnace? Hooks into your existing ductwork... not cheap but it may be something to consider.

There are also some European stoves sold here, Ecotek is one, that have the capability of hooking up to existing ductwork.
http://www.ecoteck.us/
http://www.ecoteck.us/ducted-heat/

 

[PastTense]

What if you want to go away for a week or two over Christmas/New Years to visit relatives?

I really think you should keep the propane system for this.

 

[Tom2]

Well, that stinks... Guess I won't be dumping the propane as easily as I thought.

 

[jtakeman]

Hold on there partner, The hoppers on some of these furnaces have a very large capacity. Some have hoppers that feed the stove by an auger system. Were talking months supply on had! Of coarse those puppies don't come cheap!

By the sounds of it though, No matter what you heat with your going to spend a good dime until you insulate and seal the drafty shack. Some of the best dollar return is in attic insulation and is easy to do! Windows can be tamed with some of those plastic kits you use with a hair drier.

 

[Tom2]

Yea, I did the window plastic thing last winter. Helped a tiny bit. Kept the windows from getting frosty/condensation.

The attic actually has quite a bit of insulation.. But obviously not enough I guess.

 

[BadDad320]

I got a 1875 Victorian with 10 ft ceilings.... Lots of huge windows with wooden storm windows and a tower.... About 2200 sq ft...... Oil Burner with hot water cast iron radiators.... Got a Thelin pellet stove and now I only use the oil if I go away for the weekend or if the temp drops below zero.... The room with the pellet stove is usually about 80 degrees... all other downstairs rooms are mid 70's..... Upstairs are all about 60-64.... Got electric comforters on all the beds..... I use some box fans to help move heat.... I have an Oregon Scientific weather monitor system and have sensors in all rooms plus attic and basement...Closing doors and moving fans can make a difference as per the monitors..... Using pellets is cheaper and warmer for me..... I often thought of putting a Thelin Gnome on the second floor but I like the cooler temp for sleeping so I never bothered to follow through on that..... You won't be sorry with your choice..... You'll end up getting more heat for less money....

 

[save$]

there is a little gadget at Lowes made by Black and Decker that does some sort of thermo scanning. It retails for about $40. I would try to stop heating the state of NY before I invested in an alturnate heat souce. There still are some tax incentives left this year. Might be your best $ in controlling heat loss and fuel consumption . I have a 70s era split that I heat with one stove. But I have done a lot to stop my heat loss. I have a friend who has a pellet stove in a drafty home. He can stand right infront of his pellet stove and not feel warm. He went back to heating with cord wood. (several cords).

 

[ARGlock]

Not sure if a 50,000 btu multi-fuel furnace would work for you but the Fahrenheit I've heard is one good unit. It's being used up in Canada and they are extremely pleased and have even burned wheat! Wheat farmers would have an advantage with tons just sitting around. Pricewise we would probably want to burn pellets or corn.

Here's the website:
http://www.fahrenheittech.com/


Winter is coming!
AR

 

[Meneillys]

Not sure if a 50,000 btu multi-fuel furnace would work for you but the Fahrenheit I've heard is one good unit.

A place in Syracuse worked on the control board for that furnace and I got to see one tore down. One hell of a stove everything looked well thought out and built strong and easy to clean. If I didn't already have my Quad I would think about getting that furnace.