Can I get the catalytic in an Encore to work with just a small fire?

[SonOfEru]

I didn’t like seeing the digital themo on my hearth at first either but I got use to it real quick and then m constantly looking over at it to check the temp. I would hate getting out of my recliner all the time to look behind my stove to monitor temps.

Well I need to balance convenience with appearance. I also like things that work, things that make stuff easier, things that make sense. But my dearly beloved is all for appearance. Works? Who cares, if it looks out of sync with the "look" of the place, no way. When we chose the windows for our new house the only ones that made the grade were nothing like energy efficient - single panes, true divided lights, the muntin bars had to have that "original" look. Who knows how much $ has gone out the windows in lost heat. But I admit, they are lovely.

I've learned to pick my battles and this is a loser for now. Alas. Dont get me wrong, I HAVE won some. I refused to have cedar shingles on the roof - a fire hazard with wood heat. We never could have got the fire chief to sign off on the code question for that. Took a while to get her to see it but I did.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Actually that nudges me to another question. Why did my old Encore warp, anyway. I have wondered if my practice of burning small bright fires without a cat led to overfiring [which I knew nothing about before now, and I never looked at a thermometer] and the heat warped things over time. I did make bigger fires as needed when it was really cold out, so some of the fires were not really small one-stick-at-a-time burns. Sometimes as many as 3 at a time, with no cat. Damper closed but no cat in there. [See the first of the thread if you wonder what I'm talking about, burning with no cat]

I replaced the ash grate in the bottom of the firebox twice. It would start to heave after a number of years, but it still worked, so I would keep it until it actually began to crack in the middle of where it humped up. My fireback was also gently warped and slightly cracked, and the big deal was the frame around the damper. It got bowed out so there was no longer a good seal and eventually it moved enough that the damper handle didnt just fail to snap in, the damper began to actually fall back open, so there was no damping effect at all. I would have to keep an eye on it and close it up again but hard to do that in my sleep. I eventually cut a "crutch" stick to prop under the handle to keep it shut.

So do Encores just warp over time or are they good forever if you dont overfire them? Having replaced one now for warps I sure want to avoid that again.

How often are you replacing gaskets? Everything you have described sounds like overfiring. And probobly a good portion of it from leaky gaskets.

 

[SonOfEru]

How often are you replacing gaskets? Everything you have described sounds like overfiring. And probobly a good portion of it from leaky gaskets.

The stove I am asking about was given to me by a friend. He bought it in 1992 but only used for maybe 5 years then got central heat. So it has never had replacement gaskets. That is looking like an issue and top of the list for me. I noticed last night as I turned the lights out, that I could see a thin sliver of light coming through the griddle gasket. No mistaking it. Just along one end, and very thin but it was definitely leaking. So I bet others are also leaking.

So yes it does seem like overfiring.

I see "gasket kits" for sale all over the place. Can I assume that if they say they are Vermont Castings, that VC actually makes them? Must I make sure they are genuine VC? And does a "kit" cover what I need to cover? I presume I need to do doors, griddle, ashpan, but I dont want to get into the fireback or the catalytic cover panel [the screws are totally rusted in place so I fear lots of screws and bolts will be the dickens to get loose]. I want to do only what I can do easily and quickly in the middle of winter.

And how long does it take to do an "easy and quick" gasket job? It looks like they are cemented in, so how long before it dries and I can put it back into service?

So allow one day? Two days?

Are the instructions in the kit sufficient for a handy guy? I cant find any YouTubes for it, specifically for an Encore. Some for other stoves, so is the technique the same?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

The stove I am asking about was given to me by a friend. He bought it in 1992 but only used for maybe 5 years then got central heat. So it has never had replacement gaskets. That is looking like an issue and top of the list for me. I noticed last night as I turned the lights out, that I could see a thin sliver of light coming through the griddle gasket. No mistaking it. Just along one end, and very thin but it was definitely leaking. So I bet others are also leaking.

So yes it does seem like overfiring.

I see "gasket kits" for sale all over the place. Can I assume that if they say they are Vermont Castings, that VC actually makes them? Must I make sure they are genuine VC? And does a "kit" cover what I need to cover? I presume I need to do doors, griddle, ashpan, but I dont want to get into the fireback or the catalytic cover panel [the screws are totally rusted in place so I fear lots of screws and bolts will be the dickens to get loose]. I want to do only what I can do easily and quickly in the middle of winter.

And how long does it take to do an "easy and quick" gasket job? It looks like they are cemented in, so how long before it dries and I can put it back into service?

So allow one day? Two days?

Are the instructions in the kit sufficient for a handy guy? I cant find any YouTubes for it, specifically for an Encore. Some for other stoves, so is the technique the same?

I doubt VC makes their own gaskets but I could be wrong. Amazon sells gasket kits that will have all you need. I’m sure these kits cover many models but just make sure your model is listed. I just went to my local VC dealer and told them what I need. The griddle top is 5/16 I believe. It’s suppose to have wire mesh around it but I just used regular graphite rope gasket. I feel it seals better. You are going to want to do the glass as well. If you have a dremel it makes cleaning the gasket channels out much easier than a wire brush. Once you have the new rope in you can fire your stove up after an hour ( if using gasket cement). Some guys use high temp silicone and I’m not sure what the dry time is for that. I’m pretty sure your lower fire back is the same as my model. If so remove the two wedges on either side and remove your lower fireback. There is rope gasket on that as well.

 

[begreen]

SonOfEru what manual do you have, the one for the 2140 or the 0028? The 0028 manual has an excellent set of instructions for the specs and replacement of all the gaskets complete with illustrations on page 12. The 2140 manual gasket info is also on page 12, but without illustrations.

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/170576/products/Vermont-Castings-Encore-Gasket-Kit.html

 

[DMoloney]

Actually that nudges me to another question. Why did my old Encore warp, anyway. I have wondered if my practice of burning small bright fires without a cat led to overfiring [which I knew nothing about before now, and I never looked at a thermometer] and the heat warped things over time. I did make bigger fires as needed when it was really cold out, so some of the fires were not really small one-stick-at-a-time burns. Sometimes as many as 3 at a time, with no cat. Damper closed but no cat in there. [See the first of the thread if you wonder what I'm talking about, burning with no cat]

I replaced the ash grate in the bottom of the firebox twice. It would start to heave after a number of years, but it still worked, so I would keep it until it actually began to crack in the middle of where it humped up. My fireback was also gently warped and slightly cracked, and the big deal was the frame around the damper. It got bowed out so there was no longer a good seal and eventually it moved enough that the damper handle didnt just fail to snap in, the damper began to actually fall back open, so there was no damping effect at all. I would have to keep an eye on it and close it up again but hard to do that in my sleep. I eventually cut a "crutch" stick to prop under the handle to keep it shut.

So do Encores just warp over time or are they good forever if you dont overfire them? Having replaced one now for warps I sure want to avoid that again.

Yeah, they can get too hot--I don't have much experience running one without a working cat in there, but I'm sure it can happen either way. I've been lucky I guess. Only warped parts I've had to replace are the throat hood and one of the andirons. But I've certainly went thru more than my share of combustors. If you don't over-fire and keep them well maintained (gaskets, cat cleaning, etc) my guess is that they should last decades. They are certainly not a good choice for the typical wood burner around here.

 

[DMoloney]

These encores are a 3 thermometer stove.
Flue thermo, cat thermo, and a griddle thermo.

Thanks--I've been trying to operate with only a griddle thermo, not a good idea. Running blind. I'll order a flue thermometer too. Any suggestions?

 

[DMoloney]

I've been burning small loads cat-less for the past few days while waiting for Condar to ship another. I didn't like it at all..inefficient, dirty, low heat output...Cat finally arrived yesterday at dark, I installed it and built my first top-down fire. Three splits about 3" or 4" thick on the bottom, a couple handfuls of wood shavings, several good dry 1/2" to 1" oak splits on top. Primary air half open. Within 10 minutes I had 450 degree griddle temps, so kicked in the cat, and reduced primary. No Cat thermo yet, but I could hear metal heating up and expanding (tink tink) in the back of the stove, then the heat started rolling and it cooked nicely for over two hours on those 3 little splits--Amazing.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Thanks--I've been trying to operate with only a griddle thermo, not a good idea. Running blind. I'll order a flue thermometer too. Any suggestions?

Single wall or double wall stove pipe? The condar magnetic seem to ok. It’s always good to have an IR thermometer in your arsenal to check accuracy. If you have double wall stove pipe you need to get a probe style flue thermometer.

 

[SonOfEru]

SonOfEru what manual do you have, the one for the 2140 or the 0028? The 0028 manual has an excellent set of instructions for the specs and replacement of all the gaskets complete with illustrations on page 12. The 2140 manual gasket info is also on page 12, but without illustrations.

I have the 2140 manual. I wondered for a long time why I kept seeing 0028 and 2140 as if they were interchangeable. Finally I saw this in the Service Manual [not the owners manual]

MODEL #0028 MANUFACTURED 7/11/86 THRU 4/25/90
MODEL #2140 MAUNFACTURED 5/17/90 THRU 11/5/91

My old one was 0028 and my new [current] one is 2140

 

[SonOfEru]

Single wall or double wall stove pipe? The condar magnetic seem to ok. It’s always good to have an IR thermometer in your arsenal to check accuracy. If you have double wall stove pipe you need to get a probe style flue thermometer.

Single wall. Just one section, an oval to straight adapter, right into the chimney, straight behind.

The stove came with a Condar probe, that was used inside the connector pipe in that installation [that one went up into an old fireplace flue that had been modified with a poured liner. The installer of the liner had a winch at the top with a cable connected to an 8" cone shaped thingie which he winched down to the bottom. Then poured the mortar/ceramic mix down and winched the cone up, smearing it against the walls so it left an 8 inch flue. BTW the friend who gave me the stove is a next door neighbor and I was actually present and watching when the liner was poured. It ended up going straight and smooth, as good as any tile flue or better. But then there was a somewhat twisty job of connectors from the flue collar bending around the chimney corner and up to the beginning of the liner. The Condar probe was in the pipe a foot behind the stove.

So I have that probe thermometer and I am thinking of using that as a cat probe. I cant see why it would not work. It goes up to 1700, and I dont think there is any other special aspect of a "true" cat probe that would make a difference. But that's just a common sense conclusion. So is there something a cat probe has that this one does not, besides being new?

 

[DMoloney]

Small fires only until I get the cat probe installed to see what's going on in there. I was reading in the 2016-17 thread that some were closing off the secondary air, or changing the timing from 5 o'clock to 2:30 or so, to help keep cat temps in the safer ranges. Any new words on how that's going? I need to go back and finish out that thread--lots of good info there.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Small fires only until I get the cat probe installed to see what's going on in there. I was reading in the 2016-17 thread that some were closing off the secondary air, or changing the timing from 5 o'clock to 2:30 or so, to help keep cat temps in the safer ranges. Any new words on how that's going? I need to go back and finish out that thread--lots of good info there.

From about 2013 to present day the VC owners thread has tons of info. We should all should continue this in that thread. Should have more of a chance for other VC veterans to chime in and help out.
I am one who changed the timing on my secondary. I still like it open for light off but prefer it completely closed during run times. My cat can still hit 1550 but with proper stove practices it doesn’t go any higher and for the most part I can keep my peaks under that as well.

 

[SonOfEru]

From about 2013 to present day the VC owners thread has tons of info. We should all should continue this in that thread. Should have more of a chance for other VC veterans to chime in and help out.
I am one who changed the timing on my secondary. I still like it open for light off but prefer it completely closed during run times. My cat can still hit 1550 but with proper stove practices it doesn’t go any higher and for the most part I can keep my peaks under that as well.

If there is a better place to go thats fine

Can you be specific as to which thread?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

If there is a better place to go thats fine

Can you be specific as to which thread?

The 2017/2018 VC owners thread. There will be some more guys there to help us out.

 

[Diabel]

Small fires only until I get the cat probe installed to see what's going on in there. I was reading in the 2016-17 thread that some were closing off the secondary air, or changing the timing from 5 o'clock to 2:30 or so, to help keep cat temps in the safer ranges. Any new words on how that's going? I need to go back and finish out that thread--lots of good info there.

The primary shut 99% with aluminum tape. The stove runs very good.

 

[DMoloney]

Single wall or double wall stove pipe? The condar magnetic seem to ok. It’s always good to have an IR thermometer in your arsenal to check accuracy. If you have double wall stove pipe you need to get a probe style flue thermometer.

Single wall stove pipe--I'll try the condar magnetic. Thanks!

 

[DMoloney]

The primary shut 99% with aluminum tape. The stove runs very good.

Okay, this is great to know. Mucho appreciated.