Can you get secondary too fast?

[jatoxico]

So, my conclusion is that closing down all the way (at least on my Regency i2400) does not completely cut off the supply of air and, if done while maintaining good secondary flames, can be beneficial for an overnight burn.

The thing I will need to keep an eye on now is how the chimney looks come January when I'll do my "mid-season" clean-out. I did not see smoke when I had the air down all the way but probably best to keep tabs on this approach.

All good info. I'll just add that IMO it's useful to read the fire. If you have dark orange, black tipped flames I will feed in a bit more air if the flames are bright I feel comfortable to keep shutting down until I get what I want.

You could also use the tinfoil trick on your thermo if you want to know what your peak temp was while you were sleeping.

 

[velvetfoot]

You could also use the tinfoil trick on your thermo if you want to know what your peak temp was while you were sleeping.

?

 

[ADK_XJ]

?

Second that...which tin foil trick?

 

[jatoxico]

?

Second that...which tin foil trick?

Wow not often I'm in the know! Take a very small piece of aluminum foil and make a little right angle that will stand on its own. Put that under the needle of your thermo. It will slide along then stay at the high point as the needle recedes. I don't know who first thought or posted this here but kudos to that member.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Wow not often I'm in the know! Take a very small piece of aluminum foil and make a little right angle that will stand on its own. Put that under the needle of your thermo. It will slide along then stay at the high point as the needle recedes. I don't know who first thought or posted this here but kudos to that member.

Interesting. I like how lo-tech it is!

 

[begreen]

We are burning some super dry doug fir right now. This morning's startup went from ignition to secondaries in 10 minutes. The air was closed all the way down in 15 minutes. Curren fire wood is almost too dry. It's hard to get greater than 6 hr burns with large splits even with the air closed all the way down.

 

[blades]

We are burning some super dry doug fir right now. This morning's startup went from ignition to secondaries in 10 minutes. The air was closed all the way down in 15 minutes. Curren fire wood is almost too dry. It's hard to get greater than 6 hr burns with large splits even with the air closed all the way down.

That's one of the differences between deciduous and conifers.

 

[begreen]

One difference is oil content, though eucalyptus is deciduous and also has high oil content. FWIW, I have the same issue with some super dry alder and cottonwood that we have been burning. We have had two very dry summers in a row. This wood is 2-3 years old and has been under cover in the shed. It is bone dry. Once I get through this cord or so I will be into 10 month seasoned doug fir which should slow the fire down a lot. I also have a good stash of locust and cherry for when the temps really drop. Madrona is drying for next year.

 

[TedyOH]

We are burning some super dry doug fir right now. This morning's startup went from ignition to secondaries in 10 minutes. The air was closed all the way down in 15 minutes. Curren fire wood is almost too dry. It's hard to get greater than 6 hr burns with large splits even with the air closed all the way down.

I'm having this problem as well with some really dry silver maple, choking the air all the way down in 10 to 15 minutes and the insert is still cranking up to 750+ deg. The holes in the baffle were blowing 6" flames, made me nervous. It seems my draft is super strong this year already.

 

[bag of hammers]

Kind of interesting, having to throw some less dry wood in to slow the fire down, vs scrounging some dry pallet wood or similar to coax a stubborn fire that's built on not-so-dry splits. Either way, it speaks to the value of having a variety of fuel, and using a little finesse, to get a good fire under most circumstances.

 

[begreen]

I'm having this problem as well with some really dry silver maple, choking the air all the way down in 10 to 15 minutes and the insert is still cranking up to 750+ deg. The holes in the baffle were blowing 6" flames, made me nervous. It seems my draft is super strong this year already.

Have you been following this thread?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/super-27-question.149606/

 

[TedyOH]

Have you been following this thread?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/super-27-question.149606/

Just read it, thanks for the link begreen - last night I actually took the bottom panel off to see if I could see the actual damper opening, no such luck without pulling the insert out and flipping it, with my air control lever it's kind of set up like a base board register, I'll need to grind out a little more on the right side of the panel so I can slide the lever over more.

A few questions though from the other thread, since I haven't had my insert a full year yet, you guys say "do you pack the firebox?", I never put in more than 3 or 4 good size splits, even overnight (few coals remain in the morning) there's room for 2 more to "pack" it, which would be almost or actually touching the top of the stove / baffle, my fear is if my 3 splits are getting temps of 750+, how hot will 5 or 6 splits get the stove?

Also I noticed "do you load when the coal burn down"? - how much is burnt down, say 50% down?

What happens with my insert is I will get a good slow burn / secondarys for about 10 or 20 minutes then the wood just explodes in flames with the air shut down all the way.

Thanks!

 

[jatoxico]

What happens with my insert is I will get a good slow burn / secondarys for about 10 or 20 minutes then the wood just explodes in flames with the air shut down all the way.

Is this happening on cold starts or just reloads?

 

[motoguy]

A few questions though from the other thread, since I haven't had my insert a full year yet, you guys say "do you pack the firebox?", I never put in more than 3 or 4 good size splits, even overnight (few coals remain in the morning) there's room for 2 more to "pack" it, which would be almost or actually touching the top of the stove / baffle, my fear is if my 3 splits are getting temps of 750+, how hot will 5 or 6 splits get the stove?

I play Tetris when I load my stove, and try to fill it as full as possible. IMO, temp is determined by dryness of wood, type of wood, and airflow, more than volume of wood. The volume is just the "mass", or "time to burn", in my opinion. I would think that 5 splits of the same wood, in the same stove, with the same settings, would burn at the same temp as 3 splits...just longer. Adjust any of those things, though, and the results may differ.

I may be completely wrong, but that's how I've viewed it.

 

[TedyOH]

Is this happening on cold starts or just reloads?

Reloads - cold starts I make this happen to heat up the liner asap, I let the first load (kindling and 3 small splits) roar away to coals.

 

[bag of hammers]

my fear is if my 3 splits are getting temps of 750+, how hot will 5 or 6 splits get the stove?

Think about when you build a "log cabin" fire - generally it turns into an inferno real fast. Take those same splits, add a couple more, load them in tight together - and you'll get a different burn altogether (not an inferno). Lots of air around the splits == faster hotter burn. Pack the firebox tight and it will help control that burn, even with more splits in the mix - all other things being equal....

 

[Ctwoodtick]

If it were me, I might replicate the procedure you described in daylight so you could see if you getting visible smoke out of chimney.
Smoke or no smoke is my cue in knowing if I should make adjustments or not. Also, imo, you are describing the difference between good firewood and stuff that's probably 30+% on mm.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Think about when you build a "log cabin" fire - generally it turns into an inferno real fast. Take those same splits, add a couple more, load them in tight together - and you'll get a different burn altogether (not an inferno). Lots of air around the splits == faster hotter burn. Pack the firebox tight and it will help control that burn, even with more splits in the mix - all other things being equal....

Second on this. Doing a NS/EW (log cabin) is what I do when I get home from work when I want to get the stove warmed up quickly. Think of it like a bellows, the more air you blow into a flame the bigger and hotter it gets. Now, switch the bellows for the "doghouse" on your stove...if you have a loose, open stack of wood and are pulling air through it you'll get a faster, hotter burn than if it was a closely packed wall of splits that burn from the edges and top/bottom in.

TL;DR Log-cabin style for short(er) hot fires, tight Tetris style load for longer burn that also takes longer to achieve its max heat.

 

[TedyOH]

Think about when you build a "log cabin" fire - generally it turns into an inferno real fast. Take those same splits, add a couple more, load them in tight together - and you'll get a different burn altogether (not an inferno). Lots of air around the splits == faster hotter burn. Pack the firebox tight and it will help control that burn, even with more splits in the mix - all other things being equal....

I see you point but my fear is packed to tight and I will end up with a smoldering mess? But I will try it, I can only load EW so there's not a ton of space to begin with (other than 1/3 of the box being empty)?

If it were me, I might replicate the procedure you described in daylight so you could see if you getting visible smoke out of chimney.
Smoke or no smoke is my cue in knowing if I should make adjustments or not. Also, imo, you are describing the difference between good firewood and stuff that's probably 30+% on mm.

Absolutely no smoke when it's raging away. This wood is under 15% currently

Also for the record I took another look at the main air intake adjuster mechanism - I didn't notice this yesterday, because I didn't stick my fingers under there, but today there's another hole that's always open and can not be closed right next to the hole / intake that is adjustable, bending or altering the tab would do no good because if it moved anymore to the right to cover the other smaller hole, the main hole would start to be uncovered. So what I did is stuffed a tin foil ball in the non-adjustable small hole. Making a world of difference, I had the main air shut down about 80% and I had nothing but secondarys burning no flame coming off the splits, never had that before, temp was holding at 700 deg...secondarys now are pretty much gone, I'm left with white logs sitting atop a coal bed, starting to break down. So on the PE flush mount Neo inserts the main air intake is basically two holes, the first hole on the left that is adjustable, is about the size of a half dollar, then the hole right next to it to the right, which is not adjustable, is about the size of a nickel, this is the hole I plugged, you can just see the foil to the right of the adjuster. I also left the foil accessible in case I need to remove it for not so dry wood. I must also note that the start up fire probably took twice as long to burn down with the air wide open compared to the little hole unplugged.

Thanks and sorry to the OP for the slight hijacking if your thread!

 

[bag of hammers]

I see you point but my fear is packed to tight and I will end up with a smoldering mess? But I will try it, I can only load EW so there's not a ton of space to begin with (other than 1/3 of the box being empty)?

No worries, you have to find your sweet spot. The EW loading is just one of many variables, as is the amount and quality of wood you load in, etc. Generally speaking, if you have a good bed of coals, decent fuel, and the stove's air intake issues figured out, after a few test fires you'll get to the point where you will know your stove better, and have a good feel for just how much to load it up and get it dialed in for a long burn on any given day. Nothing wrong with taking your time to get there (in fact, its a good thing to do, IMHO....). There is no formula or script. Good luck....