Can't get PH top temp past 375! How come?

[scotsman]

With certain technical difficulties out of the way and some cold(er) weather, have tried to get the temp of the PH up, but can't seem to get top temp past 375 or so. My FV would go to 550 to 650 soon after the cat was engaged, burning the same wood and hooked to the same chimney arrangement.

I engage the cat at about 300, cut the intake air to right beside nothin' and close the damper 1/2 (on windy days!). The top temp goes to approx. 375, flue temp stays within 50 of where it was. Must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but what?

Thanks--

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Terry, I'd try not closing that damper so much, if at all. I think the Progress will do fine without it.

 

[scotsman]

Terry, I'd try not closing that damper so much, if at all. I think the Progress will do fine without it.

I only use the damper on days when the wind is over about 30. Ron said it would help contain more of the heat in the stove and not suck it right up the chimney. When the wind is blowing and the damper is open and there are any coals in the stove, they become something past orange hot. Reminds me of a blast furnace! When the air and the damper are both full open and I'm starting a new load, the stove starts to rumble and the connector pipe starts rattling and that's when there's no wind! Gets scary sometimes! I've mistaken it for a train a few times, since we live about 450 yards from the main line.

Even when I'm burning a full load of cedar and the wind is calm or light and the damper is full open, I can't get that temp up. Would this indicate that the cat isn't working . . . maybe? If so, why would it not work? Any ideas?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The only way is to remove the cat and check for any blockage. Also make sure the screen is not plugged with fly ash.

 

[Waulie]

Terry, it does seem like your cat isn't working. The strange thing though is even without the cat working, those secondaries should easily get your stove over 375. Is your thermometer accurate? Are you getting the secondaries to kick off?

 

[HollowHill]

I had that trouble at first as well. From having read so much about engaging the cat and damping down the air immediately after, I was under the impression that that is what had to be done. What I'm finding, at least with my stove, is that I need to engage the cat, but then set the air to the level of heat I need. If I need more heat, such as in the morning when the house is cold, I leave the air at 2 for 5 minutes after engaging the cat, and then lower to 1 and leave it there. My stove top temps will rise, over time, into the 500 range. If I don't need as much heat, then I damp the air down to 1/8" to 1/16" from closed. So, I might do that when I hit 500 or I might do that soon after engaging the cat when stove top temps are around 450. So, you may want to play around a bit with that and see if it helps.

 

[scotsman]

Terry, it does seem like your cat isn't working. The strange thing though is even without the cat working, those secondaries should easily get your stove over 375. Is your thermometer accurate? Are you getting the secondaries to kick off?

If secondaries come from the angled top back plate with all the holes in it, then yes, I get those in spades almost all the time--very nice to watch. In fact, they stretch out to about 5" lots of times, but no effect on the top temp. Thermos are the ones WS sends with the unit and I got some more and have a total of three now. At the same spot, they all read the same.

Other PH owners talk about temps up around 600 or more and mine can't get to 400! Took the cat out and cleaned it about a week ago, but it was already clean. Screen is probably next for cleaning, but don't think it's had time to clog . . . but anything is possible. BTW, how does one clean that screen? Kinda hard to get to!

Side note:
Saturday night I loaded, set the intake, damper and cat. Looked in the window about two minutes later and there was no flame on the wood, but a roll/curtain of flame all across the top 3 inches of the window--perfectly still!! The secondaries were all on and THEY were perfectly still! I mean nothing was moving! It was the strangest thing we've ever seen! Have no idea how that happened, but it went on for about 15 minutes without interuption. Finally, after opening the intake a touch, that did it. Then it wouldn't adjust to get still again. Sure was pretty--all blue with a tiny bit of yellow on the edges and all yellow secondaries about four inches long behind it.

 

[scotsman]

I had that trouble at first as well. From having read so much about engaging the cat and damping down the air immediately after, I was under the impression that that is what had to be done. What I'm finding, at least with my stove, is that I need to engage the cat, but then set the air to the level of heat I need. If I need more heat, such as in the morning when the house is cold, I leave the air at 2 for 5 minutes after engaging the cat, and then lower to 1 and leave it there. My stove top temps will rise, over time, into the 500 range. If I don't need as much heat, then I damp the air down to 1/8" to 1/16" from closed. So, I might do that when I hit 500 or I might do that soon after engaging the cat when stove top temps are around 450. So, you may want to play around a bit with that and see if it helps.

Where do you see a "2" or a "1" to set your intake?

 

[Waulie]

If secondaries come from the angled top back plate with all the holes in it, then yes, I get those in spades almost all the time—very nice to watch. In fact, they stretch out to about 5†lots of times, but no effect on the top temp. Thermos are the ones WS sends with the unit and I got some more and have a total of three now. At the same spot, they all read the same.

I guess it's possible that the secondaries are heating the glass and sides much more than the top due to the angle and the construction of the stove. So, that would lead me to believe your cat is not firing. It seems like you're doing everything else right. Are you seeing any smoke out of the chimney? Also, if you a reloading on coals sometimes you need to be careful about just relying on the stove top temp to engage the cat. That top stone stays hot for a long, long time. So, even if it says 300 when you reload, sometimes you need to get the stove cranking pretty good again before engaging the cat. If I reload at 250 or 300, I'll wait to engage until I just start to see the needle on the thermometer moving up.

 

[scotsman]

If secondaries come from the angled top back plate with all the holes in it, then yes, I get those in spades almost all the time—very nice to watch. In fact, they stretch out to about 5†lots of times, but no effect on the top temp. Thermos are the ones WS sends with the unit and I got some more and have a total of three now. At the same spot, they all read the same.

I guess it's possible that the secondaries are heating the glass and sides much more than the top due to the angle and the construction of the stove. So, that would lead me to believe your cat is not firing. It seems like you're doing everything else right. Are you seeing any smoke out of the chimney? Also, if you a reloading on coals sometimes you need to be careful about just relying on the stove top temp to engage the cat. That top stone stays hot for a long, long time. So, even if it says 300 when you reload, sometimes you need to get the stove cranking pretty good again before engaging the cat. If I reload at 250 or 300, I'll wait to engage until I just start to see the needle on the thermometer moving up.

Not seeing any smoke out the stack (but then never do anyway--remember, my wood is several thousand years old!) and always reload at or above 300, close the door, give the thermo time to react and the wood time to catch. If it doesn't go down, I re-engage the cat when the wood is fully "involved" and the temp is at least 300. Not complicated--at least didn't think so.

 

[Waulie]

Ok. I only have one other thought: How much wood ya putting in?

 

[HollowHill]

I had that trouble at first as well. From having read so much about engaging the cat and damping down the air immediately after, I was under the impression that that is what had to be done. What I'm finding, at least with my stove, is that I need to engage the cat, but then set the air to the level of heat I need. If I need more heat, such as in the morning when the house is cold, I leave the air at 2 for 5 minutes after engaging the cat, and then lower to 1 and leave it there. My stove top temps will rise, over time, into the 500 range. If I don't need as much heat, then I damp the air down to 1/8" to 1/16" from closed. So, I might do that when I hit 500 or I might do that soon after engaging the cat when stove top temps are around 450. So, you may want to play around a bit with that and see if it helps.

Where do you see a "2" or a "1" to set your intake?

Well, I just drew in some lines to help me - 1 - 4, 4 being full open and 0 being full closed, 2 is 50% open, etc. I'm not good at eyeballing such things with any accuracy or consistency.

 

[fire_man]

Terry

I have been having trouble getting my PH stovetop temp up much past 350 lately. It used to regularly do 500+ when the cat was new. I am burning the same wood supply.
What really makes me wonder about this cat is that the stovetop temps are dropping fast from the peak of 350 down to below 250 after only 4 hours of burning a full load.
I have not tried engaging at temps much above 250 - I burn hot for about 10 minutes and make sure the stovetop is at least 250, and it slowly gets to 300 and sticks there until the whole stove starts to heat up, then the stovetop temp seems to track the general stove temp, except it never even gets as high as the rest of the stove.

I also wondered how Hollowhill was getting settings of 1 and 2?? I do wish the lever had some kind of gauge, I can never properly instruct my wife where to put the lever, we have been using "9:00 and 12:00" and times in between.

I miss the ceramic cat :-/

 

[scotsman]

Ok. I only have one other thought: How much wood ya putting in?

Uaually 3/4 to full load dry oak, dry cedar or mixture thereof.

 

[scotsman]

Terry

I have been having trouble getting my PH stovetop temp up much past 350 lately. It used to regularly do 500+ when the cat was new. I am burning the same wood supply.
What really makes me wonder about this cat is that the stovetop temps are dropping fast from the peak of 350 down to below 250 after only 4 hours of burning a full load.
I have not tried engaging at temps much above 250 - I burn hot for about 10 minutes and make sure the stovetop is at least 250, and it slowly gets to 300 and sticks there until the whole stove starts to heat up, then the stovetop temp seems to track the general stove temp, except it never even gets as high as the rest of the stove.

I also wondered how Hollowhill was getting settings of 1 and 2?? I do wish the lever had some kind of gauge, I can never properly instruct my wife where to put the lever, we have been using "9:00 and 12:00" and times in between.

I miss the ceramic cat :-/

Well, Tony, you're way ahead of me! Never once has this stove top temp gotten to 400 with cat engaged. BTW, one thermo is right over the rectangular cut-out in the stainless shield for the by-pass damper when open and another one is in the right top where the triangular cut-out is.

Didn't the FV have a ceramic cat? That thing could sure put on a glow!

 

[Waulie]

What really makes me wonder about this cat is that the stovetop temps are dropping fast from the peak of 350 down to below 250 after only 4 hours of burning a full load.

Whoa! :bug: So basically, your (not even) two month old stove is no longer working. Obviously, something is not right here. Please make sure to keep us all informed on what you find out.

If I recall correctly, our stoves were shipped within a couple days of each other.

 

[Waulie]

Uaually 3/4 to full load dry oak, dry cedar or mixture thereof.

Well shucks, I'm totally out of ideas. Sure sounds like your cat isn't working and never did. Actually, it sounds like Tony's issues except that he just started having them.

 

[Flamestead]

I'm surprised and don't have a good suggestion. But I won't let that stop me. I'd like to see a trial with the damper half open.

Taking the cat out of the equation, the stove still ought to be able to go to at least 500 on the secondaries, especially with a load of dry oak.

My stove visited 700 on the cat, but dropped rapidly down to 600 once the secondaries kicked in and the heat was released down in the firebox.

Maybe the secondaries are cleaning up all there is to burn, and oxygen is the limiting factor.

 

[WarmInIowa]

I would suggest pulling the cat and inspecting it if you haven't. Also, since you had the "special" knob situation, your cat might still be in the active break-in period where the secondaries are more active. You should still be seeing higher temps though.

 

[fire_man]

What really makes me wonder about this cat is that the stovetop temps are dropping fast from the peak of 350 down to below 250 after only 4 hours of burning a full load.

Whoa! :bug: So basically, your (not even) two month old stove is no longer working. Obviously, something is not right here. Please make sure to keep us all informed on what you find out.

If I recall correctly, our stoves were shipped within a couple days of each other.

Waulie: I would not go that far. It's true, my stovetop does not get to 500, but the house is still plenty warm when it's 20 degrees out. I do think I am getting robbed of heat because the cat is not hot. This morning I had lots of unburned coals but the stovetop was down to 200, the rest of the stove was over 300F cranking out lots of heat. When the cat was brand new I was getting stovetops closer to 300 after a 9 hour burn. I am working with WS on this.