Castine or Keystone?

[beaton]

The chimney guy told me not to look on the internet regarding the woodstoves, but I couldn't resist. Besides lining and insulating the chimney, he recommended a Jotul Oslo for my set up but I'm afraid it will be too big. The stove shop guys have recommended the Castine, although it could be based on my obvious concern about the larger Oslo. I went up and looked at the Woodstock stoves and really liked the Keystone and after talking with them, think it could be a good choice. I've got a deposit on the Woodstock, but its refundable. Anyway, just looking to confirm my choice. Here's my situation. I'm remodeling the kitchen and have been dreaming of installing a stove ever since I took the old Defiant out of the living room 10 years ago that was running on the one and only flue with the boiler. I never ran the stove and took it out in the first couple days we lived in the house. The kitchen has a second chimney and it has had stoves hooked to it in the past. The house is an 1850 1 1/2 story cape in seacoast NH about 1400 SF. Relatively poor insulation in the main part of the house and okay insulation in the one story extension/kitchen area where the stove would go. There are some wiring issues to take care of before tackling an upgrade of insulation in the main house, but the kitchen is getting pretty desperate so we are doing it now. The room size is 7x13' that is in a lean-to behind the main house and then it opens up to 13 x 13' in the extension (about 220SF total in kitchen). 2x4 walls. The chimney is in the center of the far wall. I've tried to attach a drawing. We have oil heat, and keep it pretty cool. 56-58 at night and like it like that for sleeping upstairs and 63-64 or so during waking hours downstairs. We spend the majority of our time in the kitchen and adjoining living room. I think we would find we enjoy it a little warmer in these rooms. We like the look of both stoves and the Oslo and Castine would be nice to get a little closer to the wall and a straighter shot into the chimney. The hearth size looks about the same with the front door clearance verses the side door clearance. Unprotected wall behind the stove. Stove would have the heat shield and double wall pipe. Planning to install a flush hearth. I'm thinking the kitchen area might be most comfortable with the Keystone. I'd really like to avoid hearing about how hot it is to the point that it becomes an issue to run the thing and about the need to keep all sorts of fans running to move the heat around. It would also be great if the stove is relatively easy to rekindle in the morning. Our schedule is typically back home from school/work in the mid-late afternoon and then to bed late evening. My wife also works at home a couple days a week and then there are the weekends. If we could keep the kitchen and living room a little warmer, help out with the oil bill, and maybe help keep the pipes from freezing in an extended power outage, it would be great.

Thanks for any advice or opinions.

Bruce

 

[BrowningBAR]

Why did your chimney guy tell you not to look at stoves online?

 

[Todd]

As you can tell from my sig I'm a little bias towards Woodstock but I would stick with the advice they gave you and try the Keystone, it's a great stove and will heat more square footage than advertised. I would be a little leary since it's an old house with not so good insulation in part of the house but if you plan on adding insulation later on I think you will be fine. If you find the stove doesn't work out your close enough that you could return it and trade it in for a Fireview or their new large stove.

 

[leeave96]

Todd can help me out here, but if your insulation is somewhat compromised, you may want to go bigger than the Keystone. However, if you are looking to suplement the heat and after you get your insualtion up to snuff in a few years, the Keystone may just heat the whole place. Here's a link to Todd's Keystone burning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBiJDNqCIqk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I have a Keystone in what amounts to an uninsulanted house and it IS drafty. My problem is not that the Keystone doesn't put out enough heat - I'm just loosing heat about as fast as the stove can put it out. Having said that, we heated our house with it last year and it did a fine job. Once we insulate and add new windows, we will be burning mostly on a low heat burn and conserving more wood.

Sounds like you got better insulation than I do so you may be OK.

One thing you will find with the Keystone is that it is a GREAT stove in many respects. It is super easy on the eyes - even on the 4th of July when it is just a piece of furniture in the house and when you burn that thing, it looks like a minature fireplace. The flames rolling off the logs against the andirons and the big window are terriffic. The Keystone has a very nice ash pan and is super easy to control. It is clean burning too. I got two quarts of coffee ground like creosote after burning about 3 cords of wood last year. As far as holding a fire or coals until the next reload after work or after getting up in the morning - no problem. Another big surprise I had with the Keystone was going several weeks without lighting a match. If you have sufficient draft and good wood, the glass will stay clean, with only a few wipe downs for fly ash.

Give the Keystone a try after some research and if you don't like it - I think you got 6 months to return it.

Good luck - Bill

 

[begreen]

In NH I would definitely go with the Oslo if the intent is to burn 24/7. It won't be too big. Just don't load it up to the gills when the weather is mild. Burn a short hot fire with a few splits and then let it go out. In the dead of winter, when it is blowing hard and pushing single digits you will be very glad to have the larger stove. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Woodstock and agree with Todd's advice. Work on sealing up those leaks and stopping the drafts. That will help no matter what stove you choose. And be sure you have a good supply of dry wood on hand.

 

[BrowningBAR]

As someone with a poorly insulated home, I agree with the above posters. The Oslo, or the Fireview, or woodstock's new larger stove would be a better fit.

 

[fraxinus]

Jotul and Woodstock make high quality stoves, so the real difference comes down to cast iron vs. soapstone. If you're planning to use the stove 24/7 or close to it, then either one will meet your needs. On the other hand, if you're more likely to be starting fires form scratch or close to it frequently , then cast iron heats up and begins to radiate much more quickly. Soapstone is great for slow heating and long radiation, but for people who are working each day and want to warm up the room quickly when they get home, cast iron is probably a better choice.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

I think everyone is looking at this potential install in the wrong light.
The way his house is set-up it would be far more conducive to go with
Zone Heating. With all of it's "nooks" & "cranny", he'll really have to
run it full-bore to get the whole house to heat-up, and thus overheat
his kitchen area. With that being said, I would go with a small, ornate
stove, such as the Castine, 3CB, or even the F100 (all cast-iron Jotuls).

In the future, you may want to look into installing a 2nd small stove in
the opposite corner of your house to totally get the job done. I should
know, our previous house was that way, and installing a large stove
just seem to get one area hot, but kept the rest of the house cold.
After installing a 2nd small stove, things were much better.

 

[Todd]

The great thing about the Woodstock stoves is the cat/soapstone combination. When you burn them low and slow it really makes for a nice even heat that doesn't overpower the room. When you want more heat turn them up and they deliver. If you went with a larger Jotul stove you would have to control the heat output by the amount of wood you load in the fire box and this will cut down your burn times. It would be easier imo to be able to load a small to medium stove full every time and regulate the heat and burn times with the air settings. I think the Keystone or Fireview would do exactly what your looking for.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

Odd that the chimney guy told you to avoid the on-line advice . . . other than the fact that you never truly know if the folks offering advice really know what they're talking about . . . well that and you might get conflicting advice . . . or when comparing stoves sometimes not get good, solid info to allow you to compare the proverbial apple to apple. In any case, ignore the chimney guy's advice on this one -- honestly hearth.com is a vast wealth of collective information -- and it's not just a bunch of dumb wood burning pyromaniacs that like to burn -- we have professional chimney sweeps here, woodstove engineers, woodstove manufacturing reps, woodstove shop employees/owners, real-life wood burners from all four corners of the country (and beyond) and even some honest to God fire inspectors (but we're mainly idiots. )

I have to respectfully disagree with Rob . . . I think it is very possible to heat your entire home with one stove . . . but that's just one guy's opinion.

Insulation . . . it has been said before, but I'll say it again. This is the one thing I took to heart when I first came to hearth.com -- folks highly suggested insulating the house first otherwise a lot of the hard work you put into cutting up, bucking, splitting and stacking that firewood will go out the window . . . or walls . . . or roof . . . and if you have to pay for your firewood it doesn't make a lot of sense to not insulate as you end up using more wood. That said, we understand that money and time often dictate when and how things are done on a home. In my own case I was fortunate as I only had to insulate a little bit of the house . . . others are not always so lucky.

I agree with others . . . if you are looking at the Jotul line the Oslo would be a better fit. I think the Castine is good, but would be on the borderline of working for you with the size. The Oslo would allow you to burn 24/7 easier if you so choose (and with the price of heating oil you may opt to "so choose) and as mentioned you can control the heat output by the amount and type of wood you put in the firebox. The first year while I was learning the house was frequently too warm . . . now maybe once or twice a year I mess up and do a re-load when I should not or I put too much wood into the firebox . . . typically in the shoulder season . . . otherwise it is pretty rare for the house to be too hot or too cool.

I do not know enough about the Woodstock line of stoves to recommend a size . . . but I will say this . . . their customer service is legendary. On the flip side, Jotuls are near bullet-proof . . . I really do not think you can mess up by going with either of these manufacturers.

Now in terms of which stove manufacturer you go with I will say this . . . go with the right size . . . but also go with what you and your wife really like. For some folks a woodstove is just an appliance like a toaster that is functional. For others it is an important part of the house and the decor. I guess what I am trying to say is if you can afford it, really think about what you want and go with the stove you both want the first time instead of buying one stove over another. I think Dennis would be the first to say that he waited for years to buy a soapstone stove and now raves about how much he loves his Woodstock . . . it was more expensive, but I think he honestly wishes he had purchased one a long time before. Now, I'm not saying you should definitely go with a Woodstock, but I am saying . . . go with what you and your wife really like . . . think long term since most folks here buy a stove and use it for years and years . . . most outlast their vehicles . . . and their underpants.

Location, location, location . . . I think the location in the kitchen will work . . . a better spot might be in the living room, but the kitchen is a close second. I know you say you didn't want to hear it, but I'll say it anyways . . . a fan blowing towards the woodstove will help set up an air current and it will move the heat throughout the home.

Oh yeah, before I forget it . . . how about some pics of the house . . . many of us appreciate old (or new) homes and sometimes it helps give us a better idea of what we're dealing with . . . besides we just plain like looking at pics . . . and I promise none of us will show up at your house trying to sell you vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias.

Temps . . . I suspect that you will be much, much warmer in the winter with a woodstove. I have a 1,800 square foot Cape (1970s vintage, 1 1/2 story, moderate insulation) and here in Maine in the dead of winter normal temps are 68-72 in the adjoining rooms to the woodstove, slightly warmer in the room with the woodstove and slightly cooler the further you get. In the morning, after an overnight fire (loaded at 9:30 p.m., woke up at 4:30-5:30 a.m. it is rare for the temp to be blow 60 degrees -- since this is the temp my oil boiler is set to come on at and this is a rare event.)

You say you want a woodstove to just help out with the oil prices and to heat the house . . . maybe just on evenings and weekends . . . with the newer woodstoves and the better heat I would not be surprised if you change your mind as I did and start heating 24/7 -- at first to save money and stay warmer and then it will simply become a way of life. Heck, I find it easier to heat 24/7 than to keep restarting the fires. A large stove like the Oslo or a cat stove like those at Woodstock will allow you longer burns and easier restarts.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Random thoughts . . .

I have to respectfully disagree with Rob . . . I think it is very possible to heat your entire home with one stove . . . but that's just one guy's opinion.

It depends on your house layout.
We currently heat our entire house with
a single stove, without overheating the
area our stove is located in. I have my
reservations relative to this layout. It sounds
like to me they will have to blast the heat out
to overcome insulation/drafty window issues.

 

[RSNovi]

I have an Oslo in my 550 sq ft basement. I can keep the fire small and just heat the basement or I can crank it to heat the floor above.

 

[beaton]

Wow. Thanks for all the quick responses. Just went to the stove shop today and looked at the Oslo again. All the dealers have thought it could be on the large size, but workable. Still not completely decided, but leaning towards the Woodstock and thinking that it could likely at least keep our living room and kitchen warmer while leaving the less frequently used front room and upstairs cooler. I could also hang a door in the living room to match the door into the other front room to help keep some heat from going upstairs. Our windows are all replacements once I finish the kitchen remodel so most of our draft is from our original front door and the need for more insulation in the attic space. I think I'm also getting draft up the area enclosing the chimney in the central part of the house. The old Defiant was in the living room, but it shared a flue with boiler.

The chimney guy said not to go online because he felt like I shouldn't rule out any of the options available based on a few bad reviews and that most of the stoves sold at the local shops work fine and that I should consider size and how I will use the stove over brand.

Thank you again for all the information. We really appreciate it.

 

[Todd]

If you seal up that front door and add some insulation in the attic I think you will be plesantly surprised how a Woodstock will heat that whole house.

 

[branchburner]

The great thing about the Woodstock stoves is the cat/soapstone combination. When you burn them low and slow it really makes for a nice even heat that doesn't overpower the room. When you want more heat turn them up and they deliver. If you went with a larger Jotul stove you would have to control the heat output by the amount of wood you load in the fire box and this will cut down your burn times. It would be easier imo to be able to load a small to medium stove full every time and regulate the heat and burn times with the air settings. I think the Keystone or Fireview would do exactly what your looking for.

x2

Because the stove will not be centrally located, I would go with the smaller catalytic (Keystone) so it is less likely to cook you out of the room. It will also be better suited to the lower heating needs in the "shoulder season" months of the fall and spring.

If you were looking to heat the whole house, a larger centrally-located stove (like the former Defiant setup) would be the way to go. Since that is not the case, I think the Keystone is perfect for your needs.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum!


We bought a Woodstock Fireview sight unseen 4 years ago and are very happy. The six month guarantee did have some bearing on the purchase but what really sold us was when we finally got to talk to someone who actually owned one and had been using it for some time. I'd say for sure to not worry about Woodstock even though you can buy unline like the fellow says not to. lol

I would advise to get the Fireview though as it is just a bit larger stove and should therefore give you a little more heat and possibly a little longer burn time. And we think they are the best looking stove too.

 

[firefighterjake]

Wow. Thanks for all the quick responses. Just went to the stove shop today and looked at the Oslo again. All the dealers have thought it could be on the large size, but workable. Still not completely decided, but leaning towards the Woodstock and thinking that it could likely at least keep our living room and kitchen warmer while leaving the less frequently used front room and upstairs cooler. I could also hang a door in the living room to match the door into the other front room to help keep some heat from going upstairs. Our windows are all replacements once I finish the kitchen remodel so most of our draft is from our original front door and the need for more insulation in the attic space. I think I'm also getting draft up the area enclosing the chimney in the central part of the house. The old Defiant was in the living room, but it shared a flue with boiler. If you truly like the look of the Woodstock stoves I would go that way . . . lots of happy Woodstock owners here . . .

The chimney guy said not to go online because he felt like I shouldn't rule out any of the options available based on a few bad reviews and that most of the stoves sold at the local shops work fine and that I should consider size and how I will use the stove over brand. That makes sense to some degree . . . even here many of us (myself included) tend to lean towards whatever brand we bought since none of us would really like to say we made a mistake or prefer another stove than the one we bought . . . and oftentimes when it comes to reviews more folks tend to take the time to write about a negative experience than a positive experience. That said, it seems that hearth.com is about as balanced and unbiased as you can get -- I often see folks recommend a variety of different stoves that are different than their own stove depending on the specific need and most folks will be brutually honest with what they like and dislike about their stove.

Thank you again for all the information. We really appreciate it.

 

[Stegman]

We have a Castine and love it. But I think if I could do it all over again I might go one stove bigger and get the Oslo. The Castine can hold a burn overnight, but just barely. I'm a night owl, and I load it up before bed. When we get up in the morning around 7 a.m., there's usually just enough of a coal or two to get it going again.

If the stove is going to be your only source of heat - or even your primary source of heat - you probably should get something a little bigger than the Castine.

 

[Jack768]

My two cents: get a stove with a blower or strong convective properties. Blower/convection is way better to move heat around the house. We had an oddly placed radiant-only unit (BIS zero-clearance fp with no gravity air/convection tubes), replaced it with a unit with a blower, much better heat distribution into adjacent rooms and upstairs.

 

[beaton]

Just wanted to post a thanks to the other members who gave me advice regarding our woodstove purchase. I ended up with the Woodstock Keystone and got it on sale last fall for about $1700-1800. We picked it up in Lebanon, about 2 hours from our place in NH. A few of the selling points were the quality construction, made in NH, good customer service, price, and glowing reviews of the stoves on this site. After one mild winter we are in love with the stove. I had to ask forgiveness after the purchase, but my wife will now readily admit that she LOVES it. It only really took about a week or two of it being 70-75 in the kitchen instead of 55-60 for her to be a convert. I really enjoyed using it, although I probably would have loved any stove we got. It turned our new kitchen from the coldest to the warmest room in the house. With a small doorway fan, it easily heated our living room as well and the rest of the house was comfortably cool for sleeping.

I installed the hearth when replacing the Kitchen flooring. I set it flush with white pine flooring and used the Woodstock instructions for the hearth materials. I used 1" of plywood (2 half inch layers), 1/2" Durarock and Vermont/NY slate (Sheldon Slate that they carry in stock at our local tile store for about $5/ft). The stove is set at just over the minimum clearances with the heat shield to the rear wall and to the plastered chimney to the non door side. The door side is a few inches over the minimum clearance and is the hottest wall to the touch. I used 5/8 fire sheetrock on the rear wall and insulated with rock wool since I had it to meet the inspectors requirements where the framing ran past the ceiling. The hearth is hottest just beneath the front edge of the stove, where the dog likes to lay her head. The hearth is a bit over the minimum size and is set to use full size tiles (4' deep x 6' wide). While I did all other work in the kitchen remodel, I had the stove professionally installed and the chimney fully insulated and lined with 6" pipe. The chimney is an interior chimney that formally had, I assuming, an old cookstove attached. It is about 16' in length and runs through a crawl space above the kitchen before exiting about 10' or so from the barn roof which pitches away from the chimney. Draft is great and had no problems with it whatsoever. I did have some sooting of the window early on, but it has cleared up as the stove seasoned, it got colder, and I got better at operating the stove. I burned about 2 cords of a mix of maple, oak, cherry, birch and ash. I got the longest run times (about 8 hours) after the stove was running a couple days and we had a good bed of coals, typically on weekends. We would generally let the stove go out in the evening when I would go to bed, unless my wife planned on working from home the next day (one or two days/week). It would heat the room up in an hour to an hour and a half or so, depending on how cold it was.

I think I'm glad I didn't go with the Oslo or the cast iron stove. Beyond the extra price, since my wife only wanted the enameled versions of those stoves, I think the Oslo would have just been to big for the room. We sit at our kitchen table about 5-8' from the Keystone and it's quite comfortable. I also like the side loading door. There is very little smoke spill out or ash spill out with the door open. The catalytic burner works great and has been relatively easy to clean the couple times over the season. The stovepipe exits from the top of the stove. I attached a photo of the install below. Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the update. It's good to hear that the stove has worked out well for you. Looks like it's in a nice spot.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Thanks for the update beaton and you have a wonderful stove. Feed it good food and it will treat you extremely well. On that oak, I will not burn oak until it has set in the stack and split for 3 years. Then it is wonderful. Before that, you may get dirty glass and dirty chimney to boot. I hope you also consider going to Woodstock's Open House this fall.

 

[Todd]

Sounds like you made the right choice, great looking install. These little Keystones are great heaters, I love both of mine.

What air setting number do you usually burn at? I burn anywhere from .5 to a little over 1 depending on the heat needed. A full load of Oak with an air setting at .5 will give me a good 10-12 hour burn with enough coals for another full load to take off again.