Chimney ceiling box open to outside

[venator260]

The pictures attached below are of the portion of my chimney (Ventis All Fuel) that's currently exposed in my bedroom, specifically where it goes through the ceiling, into the attic, and then the roof (there's only about 2-3 feet of attic space here. There's a decent draft through here, so I'm losing heat to the attic and eventually the outside. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to how much, but it feels stronger than the airflow in front of my bathroom exhaust fan.

I'm wondering if I can cut a piece of cement board or sheet metal and insert in here to block the space around the pipe. I was going to make a square as big as the outside of this box, cut a hole as large as the pipe, then cut that in half, insert as two pieces, and use high temp sealant to glue it in and seal it up. Would this work and still allow the pipe to remain cool enough?

 

[DAKSY]

What you need to do to seal this set-up is to the storm collar &lift apply a LIBERAL amount of GE Silicone to the gap between the top of the chimney flashing cone & the OD of the Class A pipe. Then force the storm collar down into the silicone. Apply MORE silicone to the top of the storm collar & smooth it with your finger. Voila. no more draft.

 

[webby3650]

It looks to me like you don’t have a ceiling support box at all. Rather it appears to be a firestop radiation shield that’s installed backward and possibly even for 8” pipe. I’m not familiar with that particular brand, but it sure doesn’t look right to me. You should not be able to see into the attic, and the gap between the pipe and whatever you have should be pretty small.

 

[DAKSY]

It looks to me like you don’t have a ceiling support box at all. Rather it appears to be a firestop radiation shield that’s installed backward and possibly even for 8” pipe. I’m not familiar with that particular brand, but it sure doesn’t look right to me. You should not be able to see into the attic, and the gap between the pipe and whatever you have should be pretty small.

I agree. That looks more like a ceiling fire stop for a larger Class A size.
The ENTIRE assembly needs to be enclosed from floor to ceiling if this is in a living space.

 

[bholler]

As they said this is upstairs in theor bedroom. I assume there is a support box below that. Yes it can be sealed with noncombustibles but it also needs enclosed in a chase.

 

[bholler]

And yes that is an insulation sheild. It is meant to be dropped down from above that is why the flange is sticking down. It is also supposed to have its own storm collar onto to keep crap out of the area around the chimney.

 

[webby3650]

And yes that is an insulation sheild. It is meant to be dropped down from above that is why the flange is sticking down. It is also supposed to have its own storm collar onto to keep crap out of the area around the chimney.

Why is there a giant gap between the pipe and the firestop? I assume that’s not normal..

 

[DAKSY]

And yes that is an insulation sheild. It is meant to be dropped down from above that is why the flange is sticking down. It is also supposed to have its own storm collar onto to keep crap out of the area around the chimney.

I disagree. It's a fire stop & it is not only the wrong size, it's installed incorrectly. The surface where you can see the screw heads holding it UP is supposed to be sitting ON the top side of a firedeck or ceiling. The sides coming down fit into the hole in that firedeck.

 

[bholler]

Why is there a giant gap between the pipe and the firestop? I assume that’s not normal..

It is an insulation sheild not a firestop

 

[bholler]

I disagree. It's a fire stop & it is not only the wrong size, it's installed incorrectly. The surface where you can see the screw heads holding it UP is supposed to be sitting ON the top side of a firedeck or ceiling. The sides coming down fit into the hole in that firedeck.

I use ventis all the time it is an insulation sheild and it is the right size. Yes it is installed on the wrong side like i said

 

[webby3650]

It is an insulation sheild not a firestop

I understand that...
But there should not be a giant gap beteeen the pipe and the firestop portion of the insulation shield. Its unable to maintain proper clearances, it serves no purpose if it can’t maintian clearance or act as draftstop. It certainly doesn’t look like any insulation shield I’ve used, we use about 4 different brands.

Look like a firestop radiation shield to me, that would explain why there’s no storm collar with it.

 

[bholler]

I understand that...
But there should not be a giant gap beteeen the pipe and the firestop portion of the insulation shield. Its unable to maintain proper clearances, it serves no purpose if it can’t maintian clearance or act as draftstop. It certainly doesn’t look like any insulation shield I’ve used, we use about 4 different brands.

Look like a firestop radiation shield to me, that would explain why there’s no storm collar with it.

It is not a firestop that is why there is a gap

 

[webby3650]

It is not a firestop that is why there is a gap

Obviously something is missing then. Alone, it has no way to maintain clearance.

 

[bholler]

Obviously something is missing then. Alone, it has no way to maintain clearance.

It is siply a sheild it does not maintain clearances

 

[webby3650]

It is siply a sheild it does not maintain clearances

Interesting. With other brands, each component is designed in a way that not only maintains clearance but also keeps the pipe plumb as you work. Also makes it possible to have a draftstop.

 

[bholler]

Interesting. With other brands, each component is designed in a way that not only maintains clearance but also keeps the pipe plumb as you work.

They have ones that do that as well. And honestly a firestop should have neen used here that would do all of that

 

[bholler]

Interesting. With other brands, each component is designed in a way that not only maintains clearance but also keeps the pipe plumb as you work. Also makes it possible to have a draftstop.

That sheild is usually used ontop of a support box then the storm collar goes on it. No need for firestop or anything to maintain cleatances there.

 

[webby3650]

That sheild is usually used ontop of a support box then the storm collar goes on it. No need for firestop or anything to maintain cleatances there.

I agree if there’s a ceiling box. In this case though, more was needed.

 

[bholler]

I agree if there’s a ceiling box. In this case though, more was needed.

Agreed

 

[venator260]

Hm... so what I'm taking from all of this is that I can put something non-combustable in there and it will stop my airflow. The pipe feels pretty solid installed as is. And I'll use cement board to stop up this gap.

What it sounds as though you guys are describing was installed directly above the fireplace, on the first floor. It's enclosed now, or I'd post a picture, but it was tight against the outside, as you guys describe.

I remember the installer mentioning something about there being an issue with the fact that there wasn't much space to work here between the roof and the ceiling of this room. There is maximum 3 feet of space between the ceiling and this room. The house is what I call a 1.5 story. Not sure if that's right, but the upstairs has a smaller footprint than the first floor, and the edge of the roof is the same height as the floor of the 2nd story. The 2nd floor sits inside of what would be a typical attic, and the roof has a rather steep pitch to accommodate. There's attic space both beside and above this room. And looking up in, it looks as though there is a shield installed from the top of the ceiling to the roof.

It's certainly Ventis, it was unboxed in my front yard. I was hoping bholler would pop in, as I recall his stating that he uses Ventis products. I know that this is to be enclosed in a chase, it is in a living space, specifically our bedroom. There's an attic access door right beside this pipe that won't open with a chase installed. So I've not gotten around to enclosing this yet, because that involves also moving the door. If I had children, I'd feel more pressed to get this accomplished; but it's just my wife and I here.

 

[webby3650]

That’s more than enough room to install the components correctly. We install the correct items all the time without any attic access at all! You should have the installer back out to install a firestop to at least prevent conditioned air from pouring into the attic.