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chimney design

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by bardos, Feb 28, 2006.

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  1. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    here's my question: a two story house. a small woodburning stove in a 1st floor room whose round metal flue passes through the floor and into the 2nd floor room, heating it as well and then the pipe moves out into the attic and roof via a brick chimney that begins in on the attic level. My question is, can I place a second similar wood burning stove in the 2nd floor room and connect it up with a T-joint to the existing metal pipe? Or is this a big no-no? would it screw up the drafts etc.?

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  2. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    hello dylan, thx for your reply. to answer your question, the masonry chimney is supported by concrete beams; the entire house is built of brick and concrete joists. just forgetting about code for a second, would you know the answer to the question i posed?
  3. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    hello Dylan,

    please don't go ethnocentric on me. I imagine you believe that I reside in the United States. I do not. I am interested only in the technical aspects of my original question. thx.
  4. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    very sorry for my stupid question.

    thx.
  5. djamwolfe

    djamwolfe Member

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    Dylan -- I may be new here too, but most every post Ive read of yours is negitive and mean in some way. Instead of saying "HEY CLOWN,
    DO WHAT YOU WANT......IDIOT. " mabye you could have explained to him WHY you cant do that, or WHY that code exists.

    Posts like yours are what make new people afraid to ask questions. So if you cant be constructive dont bother replying.
  6. djamwolfe

    djamwolfe Member

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    Before you pulled out all the name-calling - he did explain, very nicely I may add, that he wasnt intrested in the codes.
  7. djamwolfe

    djamwolfe Member

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    No, I think you did the right thing about telling him the codes, but what happend after that wasnt called for.
  8. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    Ok.....my 2 cents worth:

    You shouldnt vent two appliances into one flue because the draft requirements are likely different for each unit, the draft will differ widely if one or both appliances are/are not running. In a downdraft situation, if one appliance isnt running, you can get all kinds of nasty stuff coming into the house from the unburning unit....things like Carbon Monoxide, which you can see, cant smell, and CAN kill you.
    Id have to say no, dont do it, I dont reccommend it at all. Its like the customer you get in the store...they tell you what they want to do....you tell them its not a good idea, and why. Then they go on to argue. "well, I know I shouldnt do it.......BUT....". Well, thats my opinion and the reasons behind it. You will do what you want irregardless anyways, but I feel better for at least letting you know. Good luck
  9. Sundeep Arole

    Sundeep Arole New Member

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    Here is one problem with your proposed arrangement bardos - you can decide for yourself if you want to put your and your family's life at risk like this - but the flue gases from the bottom stove might just come out the one at the top. Or if both stoves are running, flue gases from the top one might just get sucked into the bottom stove. Either way, smoke spills into your house. It can happen blatantly in a way you realize what is happening and turn the stoves down and leave the house, or it can happen slowly in a way that you don't realize until you are suffering with a case of CO poisoning (like at night wen you are asleep.)

    Most municpilaties in the US will not allow this arrangement, because it is inherently dangerous.
  10. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    hotflame, harryback those are good answers. Thank you very much. That's the information i was looking to hear. I have no problem in putting two flues up to the tippy top of the chimney exhaust on the roof. I was just wondering about the ramifications and repercussions of what at first glance looked like something that would have been an easier and neater setup.

    thx.
  11. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    i would like to comment on questions and answers in general. The correct answer to the question, "Do you have a match?" is: "yes" or "no".

    Not reaching into your pocket searching for matches or rummaging through drawers, or going to the shop to buy some. My question pertained to the installation of a T-joint and if this configuration would mess with drafts. The correct answer is "yes, for 'such and such' a reason" as was finally provided.

    i asked nothing about legality, nor did i say i was going to install this system regardless of feedback received.

    It's a problem i have myself: considering myself so smart that i try to jump over my own knees with a mouthful of graham crackers whilst whistling "Dixie"; jumping to conclusions based upon my own headset, rather than go with a question as posed and the mindset of the questioner.

    thx.
  12. Sundeep Arole

    Sundeep Arole New Member

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    Graham crakers and "Dixie?" That sounds as American as apple pie. Where is it that you live again? Man, the world is changing fast.
  13. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Dylan read him like a book right off the bat HotFlame. Big red nose. Long floppy shoes...
  14. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    So you know we've got our share of jerks and fools.

    People used to connect more than one wood-burning appliance to the same chimney all the time back in the old days, but that was before airtight stoves and the resultant creosote. Aside from draft and carbon monoxide issues, one good reason not to do it is that you will have trouble shutting off the air to the chimney in the event of a chimney fire if you have more than one appliance connected to it. A well-designed wood-burning system has several lines of defense against a chimney fire, and being able to starve it of oxygen is a big one.

    Good luck.
  15. roac

    roac New Member

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    Looking at a travel website I found this.

    "Mild Winters
    Mixture of beautiful clear, sunny winter days with overcast but warm days. Evenings noticebly cooler. First rains are late September or early October, can be heavy rarely last more than a day or two. Daily highs about 20C and nightly lows rarely much below 10C. Pullover in the day, jacket in the evening."

    50 to 70 degrees farenheit during the winter? Man that sounds like the place to be in the winter. :) Why do you need 2 stoves? Even 1 sounds like too much.
  16. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    The stove manufactures specs will not allow two appliances to a flue. You are asking a question about a tee in an ill advised setup
    which is totally against code, In this country. At which point the setup is against code no matter whether you use a tee y or 90 degree elbow. The answer is the setup in its entirety is against current codes no matter how you go about it or what components you use.
    Are you looking for some kind of justicication to violate code so you can illegally install a stove? I cannot see how anyone here can advise you on your current preposal. As noted you must have a death wish. Fortunately for me, I will not have to do the followup inspection when an unpleasent incident occures. IT's setups like you described, that justifys my job security.
  17. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    bardos seems like a fairly sharp individual. I think he gets the point. I don't see why he should be lambasted and insulted for asking a simple question.
  18. wahoowad

    wahoowad Minister of Fire

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    It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

    Well said, Eric, well said.
  19. bardos

    bardos New Member

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    ok. andalucía has an area of approximately 35.000 square miles, which makes it roughly the size of the state of maine in the united states. however, unlike maine, it also enjoys an extremely diverse geography: deserts in the east and snow-covered slopes of the Sierra Nevada in the centre. i live in the sierra morena in the west. andalucía is bordered by both the atlantic ocean and the mediterranean sea, both of which contribute unique weather patterns depending upon zones of influence.

    the description in your post accurately describes the coastal mediterranean area, however it is not accurate for where i live, an area which has actually experienced snow for the past two winters, something hitherto unheard of. so when hotflame wrote that the world was changing fast, his statement was more accurate than he probably intentioned it to be.
  20. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Eric is right I should have passed on replying on this post
  21. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, such passion in the other answers.....

    Let me be a little more longwinded.

    In industrial and commercial applications AND in the case of equipment fired by natural gas, it is VERY common for multiple appliances using the same fuel to be vented into the same chimney. You will find lots of tables and references to this in codes and in the literature of B-Vent and A-Vent producers.

    Codes have changed and continue to change in both directions, and since Elk will most surely quote them correctly, I will not bother. However, I will say the following:

    In my home state of Mass a law was actually passed in the early 80's ALLOWING Multiple appliances AND fuels to share a common flue! This was done after extensive testing by both the state and by certain test labs. I assume that code change is no longer on the books.

    There are, of course, numerous multi-fuel appliances on the market including Tarm and Yukon which are UL approved for use of multiple fuels and fireboxes into a single flue.

    MANY older homes used common flues for fireplace on multiple floors without adverse effects.

    --------------------------

    Given these facts, I didn't think your question was so far out - and I must apologize for anyone who was less than civil with you. That is not the intention of this forum and I will not hesitate to ban members who continue rude behavior.

    Ok, back to the subject at hand......

    I assume (again, not reading them right now) that most current codes call for a single flue for medium heat residential appliances (I think this is what oil/coal/wood are classified as...if not, they are high heat).

    BUT, IMHO, this does not mean situations where it is done are dangerous to a families home and health. I think that it is due to mainly this - when you open a can of worms, you never know what is going to crawl out - meaning, in this case, that if you allow multiple units into a single flue, there are a bunch of parameters (chimney capacity, etc.) that have to be followed, and doing do would put strain on builders, inspectors and also probably cause the great unwashed masses to do things incorrectly....

    If we were to spell out the pros and cons (independent of code):

    1. Pros: Warmer chimney, better draft, less creosote, less cost
    2. Cons: Chimney must be larger to handle combined max, possible (although doubtful) backing up of smoke into upstairs appliance and/or feeding of chimney fire from air inlet of second stove....

    I'd appreciate anyone adding to these pros and cons if I missed anything.

    I am neither a code enforement officer nor a car emmissions station - nor even an inspector.....rather just giving a little history and also the opinions of some experts I have talked to.
  22. roac

    roac New Member

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    Well dang there goes my vacation idea!! ;-) Hey anyways welcome to the forum!! Not everyone can say they raised Dylan's ire on one of their first posts so congratulations. :lol: He's really not so bad once you get to know him, probably hadn't had his coffee yet this morning!! Good luck with your project!!
  23. bruce

    bruce Member

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    i agree with elk
    its bone-head moves that keep the good honest pro's in buisness
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