Chimney Scare. Thoughts?

[jatoxico]

Had first real burn. Went outside to check if secondaries are working smoke looked white and "steamy".

Kept checking, at one point smoke or steam coming off or through bricks half way up chimney (12') and from behind facia. Very hard to tell exactly whats going on.

Minor heart attack ran into attic feel where chimney runs up side of house no heat on sheathing. There is a hole in sheathing where I can feel the brick. It was not hot.

Got on roof and climbed ladder to feel brick, warmer than just a brick paver but nothing hot.

Feel siding, not hot.

Into bedrooms feeling walls, no heat.

In my panic left air down a little stove got hot. Opened air, turned fan on and maxed it out then sprayed water from a spray bottle to slow things down.

Stove temp down.

Been checking now for awhile no change the "smoke or steam is dissipating.

Does a new liner smoke from machine oil? If so how would it get out of clay tile liner?

Had alot of rain here could the brick just be steaming off even though not hot to touch?

I'm a little freaked ever heard or seen this?

New install. Installer checked chimney and had it cleaned by different guy, Both gave thumbs up. Brick chimney with clay tile and full double wall SS liner.

 

[BrotherBart]

Just a theory, but when you clean a chimney before installing a liner there is no way you get every bit of creosote out of it. What I bet happened is that the hot liner touching some of the residual lit it off. With the chimney sealed top and bottom the only place it could go was out through one of the motor joints in the tile liner and then out through whatever opening in the fascia brick it could find.

I base this on the fact that I wasn't happy with my first liner I put in so after one season I pulled it. When I pulled it a quantity of burned "popcorn" creosote fell out in the fireplace.

Just a theory that it could have been the same things with yours.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Hard to say what's going on, but here in south PA we've had 22+ inches of rain in the past month.

Maybe it was actually steam, the heat drying out the masonry in that chimney. I find it hard to believe your setup would be dangerous at this point, given the clay liner, and stainless liner inside that, along with the inspections and stuff.

You could let 'er cool and look up there with a good light, you could have your installer come on back and inspect it again, or you could burn it again and see if she behaves differently.

 

[jatoxico]

Just a theory, but when you clean a chimney before installing a liner there is no way you get every bit of creosote out of it. What I bet happened is that the hot liner touching some of the residual lit it off. With the chimney sealed top and bottom the only place it could go was out through one of the motor joints in the tile liner and then out through whatever opening in the fascia brick it could find.

I base this on the fact that I wasn't happy with my first liner I put in so after one season I pulled it. When I pulled it a quantity of burned "popcorn" creosote fell out in the fireplace.

Just a theory that it could have been the same things with yours.

That's a good thought. It was coming out a little bit all over but was either traveling along the siding and brick or was coming especially strong near the roof flashing where presumably there is less mortar then coming out behind facia.

Very close to calling FD but I have good access to the the framing where chimney passes and not hot. Hate to have FD start busting open walls in the bedrooms to get a visual but sheesh don't need this on a Sun.

I wonder if I need to have installer come back?

 

[jatoxico]

Hard to say what's going on, but here in south PA we've had 22+ inches of rain in the past month.

Maybe it was actually steam, the heat drying out the masonry in that chimney. I find it hard to believe your setup would be dangerous at this point, given the clay liner, and stainless liner inside that, along with the inspections and stuff.

You could let 'er cool and look up there with a good light, you could have your installer come on back and inspect it again, or you could burn it again and see if she behaves differently.

I'm leaning that way since I'm a bit nervous now. At the time I first noticed this the stove temp was only around 300 on top and by exhaust stack, got much hotter while I was grabbing ladders and such but never near red or glowing.

BTW while all this excitement was going on the secondaries fired off great and almost no visible smoke from stack.

 

[jatoxico]

Been reading and thinking. I thought I read to cool stove open the air so heat goes up and out. Not so sure that I read that right. May have gotten the liner hot and touched something off like BB said.

Next time to cool things off should I lower air?

Cranking the fan scrubbed off a lot of heat, based on today I don't know if I can run the stove w/o the fan on.

Learning curve.

 

[pen]

Close, but if it needs to cool down opening the air isn't the best, opening the door for a bit will flood the stove w/ cool room air and then fill the chimney with it. This breaks up the strategically placed air injection in the stove and basically makes the fire that was burning with great EPA efficiency who back to camp fire stage. When doing it, it feels like you are using reverse psychology on the fire.

pen

 

[mhrischuk]

Get a professional inspection.

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

Assuming your liner isn't insulated, I'm leaning towards the steam theory with Anse. Just for the reasons Jat was bringing up, the steam, or white smoke on the startup. The liner without insulation heat the moisture at a fairly lower stove temp and that steamed off and made its way out the only way it could.

 

[bpm44]

Even if it costs you a few bucks having the pro come back out and take a look will ease your mind. IMHO that's worth the $.

 

[jatoxico]

Assuming your liner isn't insulated, I'm leaning towards the steam theory with Anse. Just for the reasons Jat was bringing up, the steam, or white smoke on the startup. The liner without insulation heat the moisture at a fairly lower stove temp and that steamed off and made its way out the only way it could.

We've had rain for almost everyday for a couple weeks and the fireplace has not seen a hot fire since last winter so plenty of oppurtunity for moisture. The liner was put in on a day where we had a break in the weather then right back to more rain.

I've never seen a chimney steam off, is this common?

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

Assuming your liner isn't insulated, I'm leaning towards the steam theory with Anse. Just for the reasons Jat was bringing up, the steam, or white smoke on the startup. The liner without insulation heat the moisture at a fairly lower stove temp and that steamed off and made its way out the only way it could.

We've had rain for almost everyday for a couple weeks and the fireplace has not seen a hot fire since last winter so plenty of oppurtunity for moisture. The liner was put in on a day where we had a break in the weather then right back to more rain.

I've never seen a chimney steam off, is this common?

I can't really say, I really based what I was saying off of what you were explaining. The fellas that have more experience with chimney fires may say more about the stove and flue temps when things like that happen. It just seemed too early in your fire that it would heat and fire off any old creosote buildup outside the SS liner. And you described the surfaces as being warm but never hot, just seemed to me to be moisture escaping with some pressure behind it, to make it through the clay liner.

However...I'm not an expert, to make yourself feel more comfortable get a proffesional that knows in there to take a look. Peace of mind is a powerful thing.

 

[ddddddden]

If there's a problem, I would hope that a return visit to double check the install would be covered in the original price. If they find something else to fix for more $, great, but checking their work should be a freebie, IMO. If they find nothing, maybe build a small fire and try to duplicate the problem while the installer is there.

 

[nola mike]

Close, but if it needs to cool down opening the air isn't the best, opening the door for a bit will flood the stove w/ cool room air and then fill the chimney with it. This breaks up the strategically placed air injection in the stove and basically makes the fire that was burning with great EPA efficiency who back to camp fire stage. When doing it, it feels like you are using reverse psychology on the fire.

pen

If you do this, open the door fully. Cracking it will make it hotter most likely.

 

[maple1]

I'm voting for moisture steaming out.

I don't think it would get hot enough inside a double wall liner to ignite bits of creosote that might be on the outside of it. Also, creosote burns kinda brownish/greenish/dark grey smoke when it goes up. Real dank stuff.

The only thing I'd be maybe seriously worried about, was if there was a break or gap in the liner - then that would be a real concern. Getting it checked again by your installer should rule that out - maybe start by telling him what happened and see what he says. Then I guess the second thing I'd be worried about is water getting in somewhere it shouldn't be - if it doesn't steam out it will want to get out somewhere/somehow else. If you don't see any seeping out anywhere in the house or at the bottom during all the wet with no fire, it shouln't be an issue.

Have you fired again?

 

[jatoxico]

[quote author="maple1" date="1317742061"]I'm voting for moisture steaming out.

I don't think it would get hot enough inside a double wall liner to ignite bits of creosote that might be on the outside of it. Also, creosote burns kinda brownish/greenish/dark grey smoke when it goes up. Real dank stuff.

The only thing I'd be maybe seriously worried about, was if there was a break or gap in the liner - then that would be a real concern. Getting it checked again by your installer should rule that out - maybe start by telling him what happened and see what he says. Then I guess the second thing I'd be worried about is water getting in somewhere it shouldn't be - if it doesn't steam out it will want to get out somewhere/somehow else. If you don't see any seeping out anywhere in the house or at the bottom during all the wet with no fire, it shouln't be an issue.

Have you fired again?[/quote]

I have not.

Getting as much input from folks here as I can and turning it over in my mind every which way. This happened Sunday and I have just been too busy to call installer. To be honest with you I don't think they will have much to add. Pretty sure they will come out and do a visual if I ask as they have been responsive but beyond that would have to pull the stove.

I was very involved with the install, like hands on involved. Helped push stove into place, pull the liner down using the draw down etc, was right there. I think it's solid top to bottom.

Not a whiff of smoke in the house and zero water in stove after heavy rains (again). I'm baffled.

Maybe this common, who else but wood burning nuts stand outside staring at their chimneys?

 

[BrotherBart]

If it was residual moisture or if some residual creosote lit off, and double wall liner means nothing in that context since it is two layers bonded together and gets just as hot as single wall, it shouldn't be a concern. I'd burn in it. For the record, my liner that lit it up was double wall also. And it didn't hurt a thing.

Now if it does it the next time, that is a whole nother story.

 

[jatoxico]

If it was residual moisture or if some residual creosote lit off, and double wall liner means nothing in that context since it is two layers bonded together and gets just as hot as single wall, it shouldn't be a concern. I'd burn in it. For the record, my liner that lit it up was double wall also. And it didn't hurt a thing.

Now if it does it the next time, that is a whole nother story.

Kinda leaning that way. Thinking make a small fire tonight, keep the stove and liner temps on the low side then keep close watch. I think that's the best way to diagnose this thing.

 

[Dix]

FYI, neighbor, the last few nights have been sucky (really sucky) as far as draft is concerned. I fired up the PE last night because of the dampness and had a really hard time getting draft. Like, an hours worth of time.

Just something to throw into the mix here

 

[jatoxico]

FYI, neighbor, the last few nights have been sucky (really sucky) as far as draft is concerned. I fired up the PE last night because of the dampness and had a really hard time getting draft. Like, an hours worth of time.

Just something to throw into the mix here

Hey Dix, Think it's drafting OK maybe too good but your right it's all on the table.

 

[Dix]

Just thought I'd throw it out there. The air is heavy with moisture, and the outside temps are not good for a strong draft.


But, I totally understand your need to "test it out"


*note to self, bring more kindling in out of the rain :long: *

 

[jatoxico]

Another bit of info. I bought a cheapy IR thermometer and the temp at the flue collar of stove (right term?) was only about 300 when I noticed the issue. Hard to believe liner was much hotter and framing could be touched off under those conditions.

 

[BrotherBart]

Nope. House is fine. Stove is fine.

 

[maple1]

If it was residual moisture or if some residual creosote lit off, and double wall liner means nothing in that context since it is two layers bonded together and gets just as hot as single wall, it shouldn't be a concern. I'd burn in it. For the record, my liner that lit it up was double wall also. And it didn't hurt a thing.

Now if it does it the next time, that is a whole nother story.

I guess my thinking was, even on the inside of the chimney where the fire is, there will be a fair build up of creosote before it actually catches fire. So I couldn't see a bit of remnant creosote on the outside of the liner catching fire, can't imagine the heat inside the pipe being hot enough to do that with the first burn on a new chimney. The temp reading posted later kind of indicates the flue gasses weren't overly hot, as far as hot flue gases go.

 

[BrotherBart]

Liners in flues tiles are like a snake and unless you use spacers it is gonna be in contact with the tiles in several places. If somebody has figured out how to keep that from happening I would sure like to hear how.

Odds are that it was moisture in the space between the tiles and the bricks or in the bricks just steaming. I only brought up the other possibility because 1. I ain't the only one it has happened to and 2. It happened to me. So the possibility is real. But it was a year of burning from the time it happened till the time I pulled the liner for a whole different reason and discovered it. And was not shocked and awed in the least at what I saw. A little bit of creo in a tile joint ain't gonna burn your house down. And has probably happened to a thousand other people that just never had a reason later to pull the liner and see it.