"Clarification" of Effecta Boiler User

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

I am making this post in an effort to "state/clarify the facts" regarding Effecta Boiler User.


Yes, we are the importer and North American Sales Agent for Effecta Lambda Boilers.

Yes, I have personally owned and operated an EKO40 boiler (purchased it from Cozy Heat) with 1,000 gallons of water storage for 3 years.

Yes, we were a Paxo boiler dealer for 2 years.

Yes, I currently own an Effecta Lambda 35 boiler with 1,000 gallons of water storage (my 2nd winter using it).

Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage.

Yes, we have assisted many EKO boiler users in Michigan with on-site trouble shooting visits.

Yes, we make it a practice of only stating information that we can back up with REAL facts/data.

Yes, I truly enjoy discussing and helping others figure out "root causes" to their boiler problems and applying solutions to correct these problems.

Yes, we have made a commitment to commercially advertise on Hearth.com in 2012 (you probably have seen our banner add by now).

No, we do not make it a practice to "bash" the competition.


I appologize if I/we have made anyone uncomfortable with our posts on Hearth.com but can assure you I/we had no intentions to mis-lead anyone or cause anyone to get mad/upset etc.

Thus, as a recent Hearth.com member suggested, I/we have changed our user name to EffectaBoilerAgent (USA/Canada) in an effort to clarify and substantitate the information we post on Hearth.com

Thank you for your understanding.

Brian Crawford, President
Up North Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC

 

[huffdawg]

No problem Brian ! Its not hard to tell from your posts that you sell boilers. Non of your posts have made me uncomfortable, and I enjoy reading them as most others .

But Ido get a kick out of how many times you say effecta lambada 35 .


Cheers

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Brian, It's been a pleasure talking boilers with you by the hours over the phone. I have no doubt anyone buying a boiler from you would receive superb customer service, Randy

 

[taxidermist]

Brian is a good guy and if I had the money I too would sell my eko and go with a top of the line boiler like his. Brian has made a trip to my house to compare installs he has run the numbers on my system for me too. Thanks Brian and keep up the good work!

Rob

 

[henfruit]

Brian,Don't you sell a boiler with lambda ?

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

Yes, all effecta boilers use the lambda control system.

Effecta Lambda boilers use the CO2% feedback (via. a Bosch brand sensor) to control (2) separate 12 Volt stepper motors on the primary and secondary drafts.

Thus, the stepper motors on the effecta lambda boilers change continuously, throughout the entire burn, in an effort to maintain the user specified CO2%. Thus, when the boiler is cold the stepper motor drafts default to a 70% primary/30% secondary open position upon starting the boiler. As the boiler gets warmed up and a nice bed of coals is created (and the target CO2% is reached/exceeded), the primary draft begins to close and the secondary draft begins to open.

I like to compare this type of operation to an oxygen/acetylene cutting torch (too much acetylene causes a rich, sooty flame: too much oxygen and the flame cannot be created: with the perfect ratio of oxygen to acetylene this blue/purple colored flame can cut through a 1/2†steel plate).

Hope this helps!

Brian

 

[ewdudley]

Yes, all effecta boilers use the lambda control system.

Here's company that sells non-lambda effecta units, maybe you missed them in your market research:

http://www.upnorthenergy.com/lambda.html

 

[heaterman]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

 

[Noggah]

Hey Brian, Thanks for the clairification. I have greatly appreciated everyones opinions here and really enjoy reading the strings. No hard feelings here. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[goosegunner]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Is that anywhere on the property? In non living space like out building? What about owner installs?

That would knock out a lot of nice boilers, Froling, Tarm, EKO, Viesmann, Vigas


gg

 

[heaterman]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Is that anywhere on the property? In non living space like out building? What about owner installs?

gg

Anywhere.
A homeowner in Michigan is not able to pull a permit for a boiler regardless of whether it is rated or not. To be approved it has to be installed by a licensed boiler contractor. The boielr itself must be ASME rated as far as I know or it won't pass inspection. Don't know as I agree with that policy 100% but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

The only units I install are ASME rated like Econoburn or else open like a Garn for that reason.

 

[goosegunner]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Is that anywhere on the property? In non living space like out building? What about owner installs?

gg

Anywhere.
A homeowner in Michigan is not able to pull a permit for a boiler regardless of whether it is rated or not. To be approved it has to be installed by a licensed boiler contractor. The boielr itself must be ASME rated as far as I know or it won't pass inspection. Don't know as I agree with that policy 100% but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

The only units I install are ASME rated like Econoburn or else open like a Garn for that reason.

How well would it work to run them unpressurized with treated water?

gg

 

[DaveBP]

How well would it work to run them unpressurized with treated water?

Look over Hansson's (occasional poster from Sweden) posts to see that is how they seem to run normally over there. Open vented expansion tanks upstairs or in the attic to develop the required static head of pressure down at the boiler in the basement. But I'm pretty sure he said they don't use water treatment chemicals routinely.
They do use stainless steel expansion tanks though. They would probably rust out pretty quickly otherwise.

 

[heaterman]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Is that anywhere on the property? In non living space like out building? What about owner installs?

gg

Anywhere.
A homeowner in Michigan is not able to pull a permit for a boiler regardless of whether it is rated or not. To be approved it has to be installed by a licensed boiler contractor. The boielr itself must be ASME rated as far as I know or it won't pass inspection. Don't know as I agree with that policy 100% but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

The only units I install are ASME rated like Econoburn or else open like a Garn for that reason.

How well would it work to run them unpressurized with treated water?

gg

That would be a good question for Brian. At the turn of the previous century an open expansion tank as described above was very common in many boiler systems.

 

[huffdawg]

. I pulled a homeowners permit to wire my house. I had 2 journeymen electricians do a couple small jobs while I was away at work. The funny thing was all the work I did passed and the 2 small jobs they did failed . One of the jobs one electrician did actually gave me an electrical shock. Obviuosly contractors are not all bad but just because they are certified doesn't guarantee good work.

 

[henfruit]

Asme is something like the inspector in the meat packing houses? We know they don't look at every animal being processed but they do get paid as if they have.just an other way to give some one a reason to get a pay check on our dime. Speaking of econoburn they claim they use ASME certified steel in there boilers.What is ASME certified steel??

 

[bpirger]

I have to agree with huff on this one in a big way. A license doesn't necessarily translate to doing it right, and certainly doesn't translate to do it with "best" practices. Of course, this varies from contractor to contractor. I've done nearly everything myself with the house build, and when I've had help (laying block, setting trusses, pouring concrete) I've usually had to "talk up" the contractor to do it what I consider the right way. They don't disagree, they just often tell me it isn't necessary. Overkill. I have lots of overkill in my place. But as is usually the case, I probably care about my place more than they do. I think that is a great sign, when they care as much as I do.

Whenever work is done, you should know what you are getting, what it should be, and make sure it is there. As a general rule, don't trust blindly. You can usually quickly determine if they care or not....but you HAVE to do your own homework to know.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

How well would it work to run them unpressurized with treated water?

Look over Hansson's (occasional poster from Sweden) posts to see that is how they seem to run normally over there. Open vented expansion tanks upstairs or in the attic to develop the required static head of pressure down at the boiler in the basement. But I'm pretty sure he said they don't use water treatment chemicals routinely.
They do use stainless steel expansion tanks though. They would probably rust out pretty quickly otherwise.

If the code says unpressurized I wonder if a boiler with 10 psi on it because of a high mount attic tank would pass? I don't believe any of the codes say"not able to develop pressure". The Garn will only have limited pressure at floor level. I can see a scenario where a gung ho inspector wouldn't pass any solid fuel boiler unless ASME, Randy

 

[DaveBP]

Well, hasn't this thread taken a merry waltz around the park...

If the code says unpressurized I wonder if a boiler with 10 psi on it because of a high mount attic tank would pass? I don’t believe any of the codes say"not able to develop pressureâ€. The Garn will only have limited pressure at floor level.

I assume the definition of pressurized means that as the temperature rises in the system the pressure also rises proportionally because the system is sealed. As you say, the Garn has LIMITED pressure according to how tall it is and that pressure does not change with system temperature. Same with the expansion tank in the attic scenario.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Well, hasn't this thread taken a merry waltz around the park...

If the code says unpressurized I wonder if a boiler with 10 psi on it because of a high mount attic tank would pass? I don’t believe any of the codes say"not able to develop pressureâ€. The Garn will only have limited pressure at floor level.

I assume the definition of pressurized means that as the temperature rises in the system the pressure also rises proportionally because the system is sealed. As you say, the Garn has LIMITED pressure according to how tall it is and that pressure does not change with system temperature. Same with the expansion tank in the attic scenario.

I have read codes for different states & that is never stated. While that makes sense, we are talking code here for crying out loud. My take on this is that Mich. does not want to see any home built pressure vessels. The others will probably rest with each individual inspector, Randy

 

[stee6043]

I am making this post in an effort to "state/clarify the facts" regarding Effecta Boiler User.


Yes, we are the importer and North American Sales Agent for Effecta Lambda Boilers.

Yes, I have personally owned and operated an EKO40 boiler (purchased it from Cozy Heat) with 1,000 gallons of water storage for 3 years.

Yes, we were a Paxo boiler dealer for 2 years.

Yes, I currently own an Effecta Lambda 35 boiler with 1,000 gallons of water storage (my 2nd winter using it).

Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage.

Yes, we have assisted many EKO boiler users in Michigan with on-site trouble shooting visits.

Yes, we make it a practice of only stating information that we can back up with REAL facts/data.

Yes, I truly enjoy discussing and helping others figure out "root causes" to their boiler problems and applying solutions to correct these problems.

Yes, we have made a commitment to commercially advertise on Hearth.com in 2012 (you probably have seen our banner add by now).

No, we do not make it a practice to "bash" the competition.


I appologize if I/we have made anyone uncomfortable with our posts on Hearth.com but can assure you I/we had no intentions to mis-lead anyone or cause anyone to get mad/upset etc.

Thus, as a recent Hearth.com member suggested, I/we have changed our user name to EffectaBoilerAgent (USA/Canada) in an effort to clarify and substantitate the information we post on Hearth.com

Thank you for your understanding.

Brian Crawford, President
Up North Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC

Good post, Effecta. I've found your posts very informative but initially I did feel a little bit like you were trying to come off as a user pushing very hard for a specific brand. I've been on this board for a while and more than once I've seen new users pop up with 10 posts that start saying "Buy this boiler, it's the best, it can't be beat" and then they fade away never to be heard from again. It's clear now you're not one of those guys.

Other dealers here tend to be less agressive I'd say. More of a "Hey, PM me for some info" type appraoch. I really did think you were paid by the use of the term "effecta lambda 35" for a while there. ha.

And for what it's worth I too am a degreed ME, along with two masters degrees, but I didn't learn a darn thing about boilers in college! ha. Thanks again and sorry if I was one of the guys giving you a hard time...

 

[stee6043]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Not true, Heaterman. Direct from the state of Michigan boiler code:

R 408.4047 Exempt boilers....
Rule 47. These rules do not apply to any of the following:
...
(h) A water tube or coil type hot water heating boiler requiring forced circulation not
exceeding any 1 of the following:
(i) Maximum water temperature of 200 degrees Fahrenheit.
(ii) Relief valve set pressure of 30 psi.
(iii) Heat input of 200,000 BTU/hr.

I did a fair amount of reading before going forward with my EKO. There are pleny of non-ASME stamped boilers in operation in Michigan, legally, operating at 30psi or less.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/dleg_bcc_boiler_code_rules_print_version_2010_326957_7.pdf

 

[hobbyheater]

How well would it work to run them unpressurized with treated water?

gg[/quote]

I do not know about the treated water side. The system that I have used for 30 years is unpressurized with a 1000 gallon storage tank with a opened expansion tank higher up in the building. The water has never been treated and occasionally I do drain water from the lowest point but the water runs clear. I recently did a overhaul of the boiler and with a " Snake Mate" camera, went inside the heat exchanger. The inside did not look much different than the outside. The town's water is very soft and untreated. The tank itself is overkill. It is a 5/8"riveted plate steel steam boiler with its tubes removed.
The original wood boiler that heated the tank was a small Tasso cast iron down drafter with a net output 60,000 BTU. It only burnt 12" wood, but a full fire box load had the potential of around 300,000 BTUs. My father, a retired steam engineer in his late 80s, advised me not to go pressurized and he was pretty blunt. Just asked me if I could fit 200,000 tanks in the basement.
The short side to this - corrosion has not been a problem, maybe in the future, but hopefully not in my life time.
Hope this info can be of some help.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

"Yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer who has overseen the design and installation of numerous wood gasification boiler systems (in Michigan) using water storage"

I'm curious as to how you are getting around installing a non ASME rated pressurized boiler here in Michigan? If there is a "loophole" around the code I would love to hear it. As you know, it is illegal to install a non ASME rated boiler for use in a pressurized system here and that can raise a lot of problems with insurance if an "incident" occurs. Just askin........

Not true, Heaterman. Direct from the state of Michigan boiler code:

R 408.4047 Exempt boilers....
Rule 47. These rules do not apply to any of the following:
...
(h) A water tube or coil type hot water heating boiler requiring forced circulation not
exceeding any 1 of the following:
(i) Maximum water temperature of 200 degrees Fahrenheit.
(ii) Relief valve set pressure of 30 psi.
(iii) Heat input of 200,000 BTU/hr.

I did a fair amount of reading before going forward with my EKO. There are pleny of non-ASME stamped boilers in operation in Michigan, legally, operating at 30psi or less.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/dleg_bcc_boiler_code_rules_print_version_2010_326957_7.pdf

Ste, It appears that H must be met. The EKO is not a water tube boiler, Randy

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

Thanks for the info. regarding the State of Michigan Boiler Code.

Yes, I agree with this statement regarding non-ASME presurized boilers operating in Michigan.

However, I am NOT a licensed HVAC guy and thus I do not pull permits for others.

I do provide schematics I have created which I have "run by" the mechanical inspectors in my two closet counties and who have given my schematics their approval.

It also comes down to the individual local inspectors in different counties. I know of several EKO40 installations that were installed by licensed boiler guys and inspected and approved by mechanical inspectors (the boilers have the normal green inspection labels affixed to them- I saw them first hand).

On another note, I must say that a large number of wood boiler and wood stove users that I know do not apply for permits when installing their equipment. Obviously I cannot force someone to pull a permit if they desire not to.

Regarding the operation of a system as an open system, YES it is very do able. However, most of us know that an open system requires more care with the water quality and often requires the use of heat exchangers to the system which add cost and inefficiencies. For those applications where a local inspector will not approve the installation as a pressurized system we also provide schematics on how to install the systems as "open systems".

Finally, l I have a hard time calling an extremely efficient (90% +), very easy to use, pressure rated, Lamda controlled, very attractive looking boiler "illegal". Rather, I would consider it as "Illegitimate" at best.

Brian