Clay flue tile alternatives ?

[Nicholas]

Having a hard time finding any flue tiles that are not standard clay.
Isokern is the only thing I have found (I am in the USA)
I am not looking for a "system" just super duper liners , it will be a hand built masonry chimney.
I will need 6" and 8" round.
I have seen drawings of liners with actual "lips" at the joints, but all I find on the web is plain old clay liners.

Nick

 

[BrotherBart]

Use a cast in place liner.

http://www.chimdocny.com/casting.html

 

[Nicholas]

No cast in companies around Me.

Nick

 

[BrotherBart]

Around you would be where?

 

[Nicholas]

Sorry,
Maryland - central

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

Many of those "cast in place" liners are good for destroying fireplaces to the point where you can't use them. They typically reduce the flu cross sectional area so much that it won't draft right anymore.

Why don't you want to use Clay?

 

[Nicholas]

This is for a chimney that will have 2 flues for wood stoves.
If I am going to lay up a traditional Chimney (masonry, with tile liners), I would not mind spending a little more money for a liner
better than clay, clay "will" crack at some point, then the only option is a tear down.

Nick

 

[mtaccone]

can you use stainless steel? I see they make it square. rectangle, and round....

 

[RonB]

The company that poured my cast in place on my existing chimney (Golden Flue contractors) broke out and removed the clay tiles first. That is common on their installs. If I were building new, I would construct block/brick chimney without the clay liner and have the liner poured by them.

 

[Nicholas]

Maybe I was not clear,
There are NO cast in place flue liner contractors in my area (Central Maryland)

I am looking for Refractory or other high performance flue tiles.
does anyone know of any such flue tiles?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

Maybe I was not clear,
There are NO cast in place flue liner contractors in my area (Central Maryland)

I am looking for Refractory or other high performance flue tiles.
does anyone know of any such flue tiles?

Thanks,

Nick

Clay/Terracotta flu tiles are refractory. If the system if properly engineered for it purpose & maintained there is no reason they will not outlast you and probably your children. I have seen clay flu tile chimney's one hundred years old and still solid as a rock.



Well, once again I've committed some hainous photo crime and it won't let me upload an image....

Error Message: The file you are attempting to upload has invalid content for its MIME type.

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

You can see here where the beam supporting the entire roof structure and the considerable snow/ice loads it has during the winters, bears directly on a clay tile that has been there for over 100 years.

 

[oconnor]

You can see here where the beam supporting the entire roof structure and the considerable snow/ice loads it has during the winters, bears directly on a clay tile that has been there for over 100 years.

I won't dispute your point, but I must say, the tile in that picture isn't "over a hundred years old" . That, and the weight of the beam isn't on the tile, it's on the post (looks like a modern milled 4x4) that holds the beam up.

I'm just sayin....

 

[webbie]

I disagree - and think that clay flue liners basically suck. Oh, if you can find a GOOD one which is round (they make them) from a good company, etc....it will be better, but I would NEVER build a chimney for myself using the standard clay flue tiles.

I would use isokern, cast in place or good quality rigid stainless steel insulated and placed inside a masonry structure.

Firerock is another maker, but they only make larger flues for their fireplaces:
http://www1.firerock.us/builder/accessories/solidBlockChimney.php

I'll take a look around at the National Trade Show later this month.

 

[jtp10181]

Craig... well said. I was thinking about same thing but did not have the guts to post it.

My first thought when I read the original post was.... why even bother? Get an efficient prefab fireplace with a SS chimney.

 

[dvellone]

Superior Clay Corporation (800-848-6116) is one of many manufactures of flue liners that make tiles with socket joints. There are manufacturers that also make tiles that fit together with male/female joints. Logan Clay products is in the same area of Ohio as Superior and I think their round tiles are offered with male/female joints. Find your nearest mason supply and talk to them about flue liners and what they can get you. You won't find this stuff at the home centers or your local building supply. If you're putting your footing below frost and there aren't any earthquakes in your area you won't have to worry about the tiles shifting.

Unfortunately, the replies disparaging masonry chimneys don't take into account that unlike ss chimneys a masonry chimney isn't constructed in a controlled environment, and as such is only as high or low in quality as the Craftsman building it. As far as the materials go... ceramic clay flue tiles which are "fire clay" are fired at temperatures up to 2000*F. That means that they can also withstand that temp. Selkirk ultra ht is tested up to 2100*. Ceramic clay is also as resistant if not more so to the corrosive acids in creosote than steel chimneys (ceramic clay manufacturers will attest to their greater ability to withstand corrosion). All things being equal, both systems will perform well and last many years. The only substantial arguments against one or the other is aesthetic, cost and ease of installation.

 

[savageactor7]

A number of years ago we had our center of the house chimney replaced from the ground up. It has 2 fired flues enclosed by a large square like cinder block, surrounded by regular brick. The mason that built it said it would last longer than the chimney it replaced...civil war era. I'd do the same thing over again even with the new tech available because fired flues installed correctly have stood the test of time. Wood burners have to do the the right thing all the time fire only has to be right once.

 

[BJN644]

I just replaced a 20 year old clay lined chimney, many cracked tiles and no chimney fires that I'm aware of. I replaced it with a concrete block rigid stainless liner and a poured in insulation mix. This is considered a UL zero clearance system and supposedly retains that listing in the event of a chimney fire, so I'm told.

 

[Nicholas]

dvellone ,

Thanks that is the info I needed

Nick

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

You can see here where the beam supporting the entire roof structure and the considerable snow/ice loads it has during the winters, bears directly on a clay tile that has been there for over 100 years.

I won't dispute your point, but I must say, the tile in that picture isn't "over a hundred years old" . That, and the weight of the beam isn't on the tile, it's on the post (looks like a modern milled 4x4) that holds the beam up.

I'm just sayin....

First, have a look at the bottom left corner of this ad from Natco from a 1911 magazine. It says "established 1889"... Many houses in this area from around the turn of the century have their foundations and even first floor walls built with this tile. On what exactly are you basing your statement "the tile in that picture isn't "over a hundred years old"?

Second. The beam is not bearing in any way on that post, the post ends about 18" above the clay tile. It was put there as a remedial measure to retain the end of the wall that was falling out. The beam is bearing on the horizontal timbers which lay on the wall. and the tile directly under the point load.

 

[oconnor]

You can see here where the beam supporting the entire roof structure and the considerable snow/ice loads it has during the winters, bears directly on a clay tile that has been there for over 100 years.

I won't dispute your point, but I must say, the tile in that picture isn't "over a hundred years old" . That, and the weight of the beam isn't on the tile, it's on the post (looks like a modern milled 4x4) that holds the beam up.

I'm just sayin....

First, have a look at the bottom left corner of this ad from Natco from a 1911 magazine. It says "established 1889"... Many houses in this area from around the turn of the century have their foundations and even first floor walls built with this tile. On what exactly are you basing your statement "the tile in that picture isn't "over a hundred years old"?

Second. The beam is not bearing in any way on that post, the post ends about 18" above the clay tile. It was put there as a remedial measure to retain the end of the wall that was falling out. The beam is bearing on the horizontal timbers which lay on the wall. and the tile directly under the point load.

I may be wrong, but the machined imprinting on the tile doesn't at all look like something from 1909, nor does the scoring at each end. Besides, that isn't a flue tile, it's a conduit tile used for wall sytems - strong, sure, but I not sure it is one hundred years old.

You may be right in stating the physical strength of clay chimney tiles, but your picture didn't support your point as I saw it. To each their own

Overall, I'd go with prefab stainless anyday - mostly due to cost, and the lack of masonary skills on behalf of most workmen that, as you point out, are essential to a long lasting clay lined chimney. With Stainless chimney systems, anyone can install it, so long as they can follow instructions, and they will get consistant results. They also won't have the airspace problems that modern masonary chimneys pose - not sure how to ensure you have 2 inches of airspace around a brick chimney that needs to be tied into a wall - it is a tough problem to defeat, and not something most contractors, let alone do-it-youselfers, are equipped to tackle.

Consistancy and reliability of the installed system are key, and with the skills decline in the masons profession, the manufactured systems get my vote.

 

[dvellone]

Overall, I'd go with prefab stainless anyday - mostly due to cost, and the lack of masonary skills on behalf of most workmen that, as you point out, are essential to a long lasting clay lined chimney. With Stainless chimney systems, anyone can install it, so long as they can follow instructions, and they will get consistant results. They also won't have the airspace problems that modern masonary chimneys pose - not sure how to ensure you have 2 inches of airspace around a brick chimney that needs to be tied into a wall - it is a tough problem to defeat, and not something most contractors, let alone do-it-youselfers, are equipped to tackle.

Consistancy and reliability of the installed system are key, and with the skills decline in the masons profession, the manufactured systems get my vote.

Not trying to undermine my profession but I have to agree. With prefab SS chimneys anybody can have the guarantee of affordable, safe, trouble-free wood burning in regards to a chimney. The sad part is that the knowledge to build quality chimneys is out there and easily available but for some reason Tradesman in general don't reflect that too much. Look at all the "cookie cutter" homes that get banged up these days - and they're still not cheap. I've worked on plenty sites where the skill set among carpenters and masons is sorely lacking. Plumbers and electricians though seem to be keeping on. More regulation there. The problem now is that with more and more construction tending towards prefab - not just chimneys but whole homes or at least walls, and of course cultured "stone", are we for the sake of convenience paying the expense of a loss of valuable skills? Some folks seer at prefab homes but go visit the factories where they're constructed. There's quality control in place that often doesn't exist on a construction site. Nobody's getting screamed at by the GC to speed it up so he can make more money, and no under qualified codes officers. Though there's not a lot of aesthetics if that's your thing, and so far we're not seeing "dream homes" that'll be the pride of many homeowners for generations coming out of a factory. That comes from the skilled Craftsmen who are harder and harder to find.

 

[oconnor]

dvellone

Any ideas on getting the best of both worlds - a well built masonry chimney, but using steel doublewalled and preinsulated liners (Simpson Duraliner) instead of the clay alternatives?

It would seem that most folks issue with brick chimneys isn't the outside brick, but the liners. Duraliner, or other similar products, give you a zero clearance install (no need for air space around the brick - not so when using clay tiles as I understand it), better chimney fire performance, but with all the benefits of the brick chimney. Would it be the best combination of technologies?

 

[dvellone]

dvellone

Any ideas on getting the best of both worlds - a well built masonry chimney, but using steel doublewalled and preinsulated liners (Simpson Duraliner) instead of the clay alternatives?

It would seem that most folks issue with brick chimneys isn't the outside brick, but the liners. Duraliner, or other similar products, give you a zero clearance install (no need for air space around the brick - not so when using clay tiles as I understand it), better chimney fire performance, but with all the benefits of the brick chimney. Would it be the best combination of technologies?

I don't know that it would buy you anything more. Ceramic clay liners are quite a bit less expense per lineal foot so if you're building new there's some savings in that regard. A good mason can set tiles as quick as assembling a steel chimney so labor isn't really an issue. I really can't say that the chimney would preform any better with steel - insulated clay liners will draft as well as steel. And as far as clearance goes, any builder worth his salt had better not need to scratch his head for too long figuring that one out

 

[Nicholas]

Noticing allot of chimnies today.
One thing I noted is most flue tiles are the standard Red Clay, but a few are the yellow cream color.
What is the material of the yellow-cream flue tiles ?

For interior chimnies:
Benefit of the all masonry is that it warms up and stays warm, helping avoid "tail out" at the end of your burn, plus it warms the house.
Benefit of putting a double wall S.S. liner in a masonry "chimney structure", is that it can be replaced in a few hours 15-20-25 years down the road.

Nick