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Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by James (Ted) Leptick, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. James (Ted) Leptick

    James (Ted) Leptick New Member

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    Hello.
    I have what I think is a model 8421 Haughs Wood Stove. The manufacturing date is June 1997. It was made in Brampton Ontario by Haughs Stoves. I understood Sears bought the company and since then I understand Vermont may have something to do with these stoves.

    The foil sticker on the rear has deteriorated over time. I have a picture if needed. I cannot be sure of the model number. I have been trying to get it recertified to satisfy my insurer. If I can get my hands on the correct info and a manual the stove store doing the recertification can do the job. Any ideas.

    Thanks
    Ted

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  2. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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  4. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    Hi BB,
    The original document from Haugh shows the output maxes at 24,000 btu/hr. The Century Heating CB00011 shows 40,000 btu/hr. Has the stove changed? BTUs gotten smaller? Or has the sales department taken over the testing function?

    KaptJaq
  5. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    We will never know. Those numbers come from somebody standing in front of it feeding it like a locomotive firebox.
  6. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Vogelzang claims their 2 cu ft stove puts out 119,000 BTUs an hour. That alone is enough for anyone to realize BTU numbers are meaningless.
    ScotO likes this.
  7. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    I think the original 24,000 BTUs sounded reasonable. There has definitely been some marketing BTU inflation in the industry.

    KaptJaq
  8. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    EPA has a BTU output rating that is based on a lower quality wood load so that its a better test for emissions, those BTU ratings are lower due too the kind of wood used and the manner in which the stove is operated.

    The manufacturers ratings are based on using the best wood the could find to get the best numbers. Plus the design of the stove is also included in those numbers. If the air input of one stove allows more air into the stove than the design of another stove, then the test for maxium BTU's will be different as one stove is getting more air than the other. Its really can be just that simple.

    Some manufacturers will give their own BTU rating for a stove setting thats not the max output but rather a more typical air input setting thus why all the variation in ratings.

    Its best to go by the EPA numbers if you want a consistent comparison as the test procedure is the same for all stoves.

    I have the Vogelzang Performer that BrowningBar spoke about. I checked into why the stove has a Max rating thats pretty high for a 2.2 cubic foot stove. One thing I found is that Vogelzang for that size of stove put in an extra secondary burn tube that could add extra air coming into the stove. Their newest stove The Ponderosa has 6 burn tubes and another row off air holes coming in thru a channel at the top back of the stove with a control lever called a high output burn control. The numbers on that stove are really good also. Its rating is the highest for that type a stove and that size of stove as its a pretty large stove. Efficiency rating is at 81% close to what alot of Cat stoves come in at 82%.

    The thing to remember is that Omni test labs is the company that tests Vogelzang stoves for their numbers. Its one of the most respected test labs out there.
  9. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Isn't the BTU's transmitted from stove to room a simple function of the stove's surface area, emissivity, and surface temp? Seems any stove could achieve a surface temp leading to its own demise, so that considered, any two stoves of the same surface area and material could be considered to have the same useable BTU rating.

    The only confusing factors are glass area, convection plates, etc.
  10. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    The efficiency rating is a combustion efficiency by measuring stack out put.

    Doesnt take into account how much heat gets flushed up the flue as the higher the air flow thru the stove the more heat that gets flush up the flue. So the higher air settings of the stove means more heat gets flushed up the flue.

    Rather than an efficiency of how much heat gets out into the room.
  11. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Common Name Species Name Pounds/Cord MBTU/Cord
    Osage Orange (Hedge) Maclura pomifera 4,845 30.0
    Hop Hornbeam (Ironwood) Ostrya virginiana 4,250 26.4
    Persimmon, American Diospyros virginiana 4,165 25.8
    Hickory, Shagbark Carya ovata 4,080 25.3
    Dogwood, Pacific Cornus nuttallii 3,995 24.8
    Holly, American Ilex Opaca 3,995 24.8
    Birch, Black Betula lenta 3,910 24.2
    Oak, White Quercus alba 3,910 24.2

    128 Cubic foot per Cord of fire wood
    Osage Orange equals 234,375 Btu per cubic foot of wood. (30,000,000/128=234,375btu's)
    Any 2.2 cubic foot stove could hold 515,625 Btu’s of Osage Orange wood
    Typical Wood Non-Cat Stove Efficiency rating 76%
    391,875 btu’s left after the 24% efficiency loss.
    Things to consider:
    Reality you couldn’t put a perfect 2.2 cuft of wood in the stove.
    At the highest air setting more heat is flushed up flue.
    Testing is done by measure stack temps.
    So as you can see it would be easy to get 119,000 Btu from 2.2 cubic foot stove (actually you should be able to get more, theoretical)
    There are losses somewhere else. Maybe others can give some reasons why.
  12. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Another example is the Encore. The same stove went from 45,000 BTUs to 65,000 BTUs. The Defiant went from 65,000 to 75,000.
  13. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    I think you're confusing BTU with BTUh, or the amount of energy versus the rate at which it's released. I believe most stove manufacturers are rating a stove based on how many BTU's can be released per hour, whereas you're quoting how many BTU's of energy a stove can hold and release over an entire burn cycle.
  14. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I'm sorry, but the Vogelzang is not putting out twice as much heat as the Encore or the Heritage. Stoves aren't magic. BTU ratings are useless.
    KaptJaq likes this.
  15. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Any stove can put out less heat if the input air settings are different or the wood is different.

    There is 30 million BTU in a Cord of Osage Orange wood which calculated down means that 2.2 cu ft of the same wood has 515,625 btu's. so 119,000 Btu is not a stretch by no means.

    I am not saying Omni test labs is right, its just that mathematical the numbers seem feasible.

    The Btu rating is a combustion number not a number of how much heat your getting radiate out into your house there is a difference.

    Joful, I think you hit the nail on the head there as think about this one step further, as we are going to have to figure this one out on our own as no stove manufactures are going to release their test documents for us to pour over and analyze, but anyhow If a stove is to be ran wide open to burn at is hottest output for max btu's , then the stove will only burn for lets say at its wide open setting for lets say 4 hours for example. So lets say the vogelzang example of 119,000 btu's at that 4 hours then the total btu's per hour for the wide open setting 4 hour burn would be 4 x 119,000btu = 476,000 btu so still you are in the ball park of the full load of osage orange which theoretically gives 551,625 btu in a 2.2cuft amount of wood. taking it one step further is if the stove rating of 76% efficiency is close then the 551,625 x .76 = 419,235 which is still in the ball park. Its in the ball park as I just used a 4 hour burn time as an example but what if the burn time was more like 3.5 hours when the stove is burning at its most wide open max air setting then the numbers would align up almost perfect for a 76% efficient stove.

    So one more example is if the manufacturer of the stove that is rated 65,000 Btu , what maybe going on there is they set their input air settting for a 8 hour burn. You take 65,000btu number multiply it times the 8 hour burn time and you get a number close to the 551,625for osage orange example the best wood out there , the number you get is by calculating it is 520,000 btu.

    So you get the picture real quick that it can be all in how you calculate the numbers.

    Going back to what I said in my first post is to compare stoves, use the EPA tested Btu's numbers using the same type wood and the same settings for the stove.


    Better yet you might use the efficiency ratings as that tells you how much heat you extracting out of the wood.

    Looking at the big picture I think it was said previously by BeGreen and others that all these stoves EPA approved passed testing meaning they all are pretty close in efficiency. Its more about how you operate the stove and the kind of wood that makes the bigger difference in the performance of your stove. If your really interested in perfromance any of these stoves that are EPA approved will do exceptionally great on 3 year old season oak, hickory, Osage Orange.
  16. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Which, again, highlights how it is a useless number that does not indicate how well or how much a stove will provide heat.
    Huntindog1 likes this.

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