cost benefit analysis of heating with solid fuel

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SmokeyCity

SmokeyCity

Feeling the Heat
Mar 6, 2011
428
Western Pa
Ive been watching a lot of U tube vids about peak oil, and the soon coming economic depression ( and hyperinflation of energy costs).

I decided to do dome crude calculations on what my total cost has been for the past 3 years to heat my home entirely with coal and wood. What


Past 3 yrs: (my house is huge and I can burn 4-5 cords per yr + 1 ton of coal per year

My stoves are
Hitzer30-95 coal stove paid $750
Englander 30NC paid $500
Magic Heat: paid $180
3TONS bulkcoal: paid: $450
2 tons bagged coal: paid: $520
stove accesories: paid $300 stackpipe, cleanouts, thermometers, fire starters, etc etc
firewood: about 10 cd. paid:$1500 + 5 to 10 cords of free & scrounge
gasoline(transport) paid:~ $400 hauling coal and wood scrounge
chainsaws: paid: $500
-----------------------------------------
= sbout $5K

If I had just paid the gas company:

$350/month/ave *12months ave = $4200x 3 yrs = $12,600
against the $50/month I pay now * 36 = $1800

I figure Ive saved around $5000 in three years but that does not account for all the cutting chopping and stacking and lugging wood and coal up 2 flights of steps and tending fires every day of the burn season. However, the longer I do this the better the deal gets because I find more sources of scrounge and my equipment costs amortize. Besides this I love depriving the gas co.of that extra $350 per month.

Lastly - nothing beats sitting in front of a hot fire watching 2ndaries while the gas co. gets chump change.

Anybody else do a cost benefit analysis on their wood burning ?
 
i have a natural gas forced air furnace.
it will take roughly 3 years to pay off the stove, liner and install.
that does not include the cost of my saw, chains, oil, etc or time
 
Installed a Blaze King last month. Total cost $5000. Borough subsidy $2500 (our borough is paying $2500 to replace non epa stoves). Last fuel bill before installing woodstove - 303 gallons. First bill after installing blaze king. 130 gallons. Price per gallon. $380. This stove will pay for itself in 1 year or less if the price of fuel oil continues. AND this last bill was during our coldest snap of the year. YES!
 
It's not just that fact you can save money with a woodburner. There are other benefits too.

If you have a power cut a woodburner will not suddenly go out like lights or a furnace with a pump.

Most modern woodburners have a decent window which lets light out, so you are not plunged into darkness.

And with flat topped ones you can cook on them too, and boil a kettle for your coffee.

You get heated several times with wood........

You get warm sawing it.
You get warm chopping it.
You get warm carrying it indoors.
You get toasty warm sitting in front of it.

And you get a warm smug feeling looking out of the window at your woodpile.
Because it's money well spent, a stack of seasoning wood is increasing in value faster than the equivalent money earning interest in a bank account.
And in a world of uncertainty, you can look at your next winters supply of heat neatly stacked up knowing you have beaten the system!

Now back to reality, off to find a few more bits of punky of old root to chuck on my stove to continue my end of season burn up................
 
[quote author="SmokeyCity" date="1300596250"]
If I had just paid the gas company:

$350/month/ave *12months ave = $4200x 3 yrs = $12,600
quote]

I made this mistake when determining savings for my woodstove also. I realized that the stove won't pay for it self in three years cuz I won't be using $300 worth of gas each month in the summer time. Good analysis though.
 
For me the stove will pay for itself after 2-3 years of burning using my 10 year avg. of fuel oil usage, and of course depending on the cost of fuel oil. Because of the fluxuation of the cost of fuel oil, there is no way to possibly come oup with a solid time period but the way the price of oil has been going if anything it will most likely be in less time as opposed to more.

Shawn
 
Another benefit that can add up to a fair amount of money is health and exercise.

While most of us try to find ways to make work easier, once we hit 50 or so, we discover that we need to move/ exercise a little more often to keep from getting sore, overweight, etc.

While some are okay with a sedentary lifestyle, most of us prefer a higher quality of life.
I enjoy being able to roll about on the floor playing with my grandchildren, and doing many of the strenuous physical activities I've come to treasure.

Gym memberships are up, diet plans are more popular than ever, people are realizing that it is important to their health to be reasonably active.

I don't know what a gym membership costs, or what the doctor visits and medication costs, and it frightens me to even think about being one of those people who has to use a lift chair, who can't get up off the floor by themselves, etc, but I'll take the extra work of cutting, stocking, and burning wood over the alternatives for as long as I'm able.

I have a 91 year old neighbor who still rides his three wheeled bike around as a means of walking/exercising his dog.
He tends to the weeds in his flower bed and along the curb weekly, on his hands and knees.
I want to be like him!

Rob
 
Wood Heat Stoves said:
Here's a handy Fuel Cost Comparison Calculator that can help you figure out the relative costs.

http://woodheatstoves.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=26
Click to expand...

Agree that this is one of the better cost comparison charts. I especially like the way they have built in a choice of climate zone and house size.

The two things to be mindful of, though, are that in this particular calculator:
(1) the heating efficiencies of the various fuel types are fixed (although in practice they will of course vary as a function of the type of stove/furnace/heater used) and
(2) the heating value of a cord of wood is fixed (although in practice there will of course be huge differences depending upon the type of wood used).

The good thing is that these assumptions can easily be viewed (though not changed) by clicking on the various fuel sources. So one can look if the heating efficiencies and heating values used seem appropriate for one's own situation.

Henk
 
I do sometimes wonder how much we've saved, or spent, over the years of heating with wood. It is difficult to do a cost comparison simply because it has been so long since we've heated with anything other than wood. In fact, we have not even owned a furnace for well over 30 years. But I can say that I did pay around $275 for the present chain saw. We did put in a new stove and chimney in 2007 but those should last the rest of our lives so would be difficult to obtain a true cost. We cut wood off our own place but pay around $600 in taxes annually. I could say some of the cost of the atv and trailer would be for heat because we do use it for hauling wood. I built a dray for less than $20 so we can haul logs. Then there is the 20+ year old wood splitter that cost somewhere around $800-$850. All in all, we really do not spend a terrific amount on heat here.
 
The good thing is that these assumptions can easily be viewed (though not changed) by clicking on the various fuel sources. So one can look if the heating efficiencies and heating values used seem appropriate for one’s own situation.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though these are the optimal efficiencies. There are a lot more variables with wood burning than with a furnace or boiler because of the human factor. Wood burning depends on how one runs the stove, the stove location, the quality of the wood and how dry it is. A person heating from an uninsulated basement using poorly seasoned wood is going to see much poorer efficiencies than a person with the stove centrally located on the main floor burning dry wood. The first scenario could be 50% less efficient. A natural gas furnace or boiler is pretty much steady state by comparison, though pipe loss does have to be factored in.
 
SmokeyCity said:
Ive been watching a lot of U tube vids about peak oil, and the soon coming economic depression ( and hyperinflation of energy costs).

I decided to do dome crude calculations on what my total cost has been for the past 3 years to heat my home entirely with coal and wood. What


Past 3 yrs: (my house is huge and I can burn 4-5 cords per yr + 1 ton of coal per year

My stoves are
Hitzer30-95 coal stove paid $750
Englander 30NC paid $500
Magic Heat: paid $180
3TONS bulkcoal: paid: $450
2 tons bagged coal: paid: $520
stove accesories: paid $300 stackpipe, cleanouts, thermometers, fire starters, etc etc
firewood: about 10 cd. paid:$1500 + 5 to 10 cords of free & scrounge
gasoline(transport) paid:~ $400 hauling coal and wood scrounge
chainsaws: paid: $500
-----------------------------------------
= sbout $5K

If I had just paid the gas company:

$350/month/ave *12months ave = $4200x 3 yrs = $12,600
against the $50/month I pay now * 36 = $1800

I figure Ive saved around $5000 in three years but that does not account for all the cutting chopping and stacking and lugging wood and coal up 2 flights of steps and tending fires every day of the burn season. However, the longer I do this the better the deal gets because I find more sources of scrounge and my equipment costs amortize. Besides this I love depriving the gas co.of that extra $350 per month.

Lastly - nothing beats sitting in front of a hot fire watching 2ndaries while the gas co. gets chump change.

Anybody else do a cost benefit analysis on their wood burning ?
Click to expand...

Your numbers are inline with mine.

When I installed my Jotul 550 back in 2008 I ballparked hitting my payback date, absent compensation for my time, sometime during my third season. Takes 2-3 years by my math given my setup, home and habits.

I don't get carried away with aspirations of living off the grid or being totally independent though - burning wood is simply a hobby for me. A hobby that gets me outdoors and saves me around 600 gallons of oil a year. What that's worth varies each year time - but I plan to keep my day job.
 
350 is the AVERAGE

some months were 400 or 500


k9brain said:
SmokeyCity said:
If I had just paid the gas company:

$350/month/ave *12months ave = $4200x 3 yrs = $12,600
quote]

I made this mistake when determining savings for my woodstove also. I realized that the stove won't pay for it self in three years cuz I won't be using $300 worth of gas each month in the summer time. Good analysis though.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
BeGreen said:
The good thing is that these assumptions can easily be viewed (though not changed) by clicking on the various fuel sources. So one can look if the heating efficiencies and heating values used seem appropriate for one’s own situation.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though these are the optimal efficiencies. There are a lot more variables with wood burning than with a furnace or boiler because of the human factor. Wood burning depends on how one runs the stove, the stove location, the quality of the wood and how dry it is. A person heating from an uninsulated basement using poorly seasoned wood is going to see much poorer efficiencies than a person with the stove centrally located on the main floor burning dry wood. The first scenario could be 50% less efficient. A natural gas furnace or boiler is pretty much steady state by comparison, though pipe loss does have to be factored in.
Click to expand...

Very good points.

So with wood burning total efficiency might run anywhere from +75% to -10% (i.e. when using an old-fashioned open fireplace).

However, when one takes a closer look at let's say natural gas combustors not everything comes down to well-installed central furnaces.
Instead, on one side of the scale one can find open gas-log fireplaces that hardly do any better than open wood burning fireplaces (i.e. might even dip into negative efficiency territory) whereas on the other end there are ventless gas heaters sold as 100% efficient (which is of course nonsense since all combustion-based heat sources require a constant stream of outside air to replace the oxygen used).

Henk
 
I figure my stove paid for itself in the first year I owned it. The stove( used) and chimney was a bit over $1000. This winter I burned about 1 1/2 cords (all scrounged), I only used, maybe 5 or 10 gal of oil :coolsmile: Two tanks of oil that I did not have to burn and I am in the black.
I think it has been almost 2 years since I bought any oil. :p to the oil co!
 
Well, I guess I started out a long time ago, wanting to heat with wood because I couldn't afford the electric heat in my new house I built (couldn't get gas at that time) and because I grew up loving the outdoors and a burning fire just seemed a natural part of that. But over the years I grew to love it so much that not paying the gas company has become a very small part of it....appreciated but not a necessity or the main reason anymore. For me, burning wood and everything that goes with it, has become therapy for the body and soul. All the expenses are just "the cost of admission" for me. I can't put a price on burning wood. So, for all you young guys who are feeling pretty good about how much you have saved, be aware, it may become much, much more valuable to you than just the "cost of heating" as time goes on. The calculator didn't work for me :)
 
One thing to consider is keeping warm. Many folks are keeping their homes at 65 degrees because fuel prices are killing the budget. A good stove/insert saves $ and makes the house warm!

How many folks here are opening windows because it's too darn toasty? More than one I bet?
 
Billy123 said:
One thing to consider is keeping warm. Many folks are keeping their homes at 65 degrees because fuel prices are killing the budget. A good stove/insert saves $ and makes the house warm!

How many folks here are opening windows because it's too darn toasty? More than one I bet?
Click to expand...
That's one of the great things about a cat stove..I can put 60 or more lbs of wood in the BK and put the thermostat on one and burn for 24 hours and keep the house around 72 or so when it's about 40 or more.
I had the same BK without a cat and no way could that stove do that..12 at best and it would get hot in the place.
 
In the past I burned 600+ gallons of oil a year. Last January I put in a EPA non-cat wood stove and burned scrounged wood the rest of the season, mainly standing dead red oak. I used about 300 gallons of oil for the 2009-2010 season. This year is the first full season with the stove and so far I have bought under 100 gallons of oil, most used for DHW.

I also have a coal stove downstairs that I use when the highs for the day are going to be at or below freezing. This season I burned just less than a ton of coal.

The wood stove and new liner cost about $3,500. The government gave me back $1,050 as a tax credit. My cost $2,450. The wood was "free".
The coal stove was here when I bought the house, it took about $300 to put it back in usable condition. The ton of coal was about $280.

Wood Stove cost_____ $2,450.
Coal stove repair______ 300.
Coal________________ 280.
------------------------------------
Outlay_____________ $3,030

The oil I did not burn (300 gals. for 2009-2010 & 500 gals this season) probably would have cost about $2,600. If I get really ambitious I'll look at the oil bills to see exactly what they billed me for my 25 to 35 gallon deliveries so far this season for a better estimate.

Since next year's wood is already split and stacked in the yard it looks like I'll break even early next season.
 
We spent about $2300 to upgrade from the smoke dragon that was in the house when we bought it to the Fireview in May, 2009. With the $600 tax credit and reduced Propnane use the stove paid for itself in the first season. I posted a thread with the numbers last spring. I have not done the math yet for this year. I may spend a couple hundred on fuel and tools for my scrounging, but it is minimal compared to the
$1000+ that I save on fuel every winter.
 
First year burning and here are my comparison between last year and this year. 09/10 I used about 640 gallons of oil from October 1-March 31. So far this year I have used 337 gallons and I am waiting on my next delivery which should be any day now. It looks like it will be in the 90 gallon range. So, if save about 200 gallons of oil this year I will save at least $600 figuring an average price of $3 per gallon. I know oil has gone up since last month when I paid $3.30 per gallon. Most likely its going to be $3.75 per gallon, so my figures will change.

That being said, I spent $3000 on the stove after the tax break and scrounged most of my wood. I used about a cord or so as I generally only burn nights and weekends.
I am hoping to do even better next year when I try some new ideas about moving the air around my closed floor plan.

If I can save $600 per year and only use a cord or so of wood, I am a very happy individual. I figure within 5 years the stove will be all paid off.
 
Howdy

I figured I would add my 2 cents worth.

Where I live, I pay an anverage of 6.5 cents per KWh. According to the calculator that has been posted here, I save about $10 a month using wood (if I buy the wood at $250 a cord split). I do cut my own wood but know of several people who don't.

Why do I heat with wood? It's simple. 4 reasons:
1- I enjoy the primitive idea of it. Let's face it, staying warm via a fire has been part of society for years. Only in the past 20-30 years have we gone electric.
2- I enjoy the independance of it. Power goes out, I stay warm. Check out the "ice storm of 1998" in Quebec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_ice_storm_of_1998
3- I enjoy the exercise/outdoors.
4- It's a relatively renewable energy source that polutes minimally.

If I calculate that at work I earn $40/hr, there is no way I save what I put into my stove. Instead of cutting wood I could be working. No matter how I crunch it, for me electricity is the cheapest. Especially with heaters made by Convect Air.
For me, heating with wood isn't a money thing...

Cheers!

Andrew
 
My insert paid itself off in a year. Install w/tax credit was just shy of $2000. Was able to scrounge 4 cords as well, that seasoned over the summer and burned pretty good. Saved myself two tanks of oil which is about $2000. House is a great deal warmer too. And as Swedishchef pointed out, it stayed warm even when we lost power a couple times this winter.
 
Pretty simple for me
Im saving about $3000 on oil im not buying + 650 for fuel i am buying a year so $2350 saved x 9 years with the stove
Paid for the stove the very first year



SAVED $21,150 Not chump change
 
I've never sat down to do the exact math . . . but I know that at today's price of $3.62 per gallon (and the year I bought my stove oil was hovering right below or at $4 a gallon) I have saved a conservative $4-5,000 -- and this is figuring in me using some oil in the past few years and with the price being much less than the current price.) Even with buying my woodstove, chimney, woodsplitter and gas and oil and other tools I figure my investment has paid for itself this year . . . and may have even paid for itself last year.
 
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