Cost of pellets over propane = 30% more this year!!

[vgrund]

Clay, it sounds like you have your plan but if you really want to model your situation start with this spreadsheet.

www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

You can fiddle with fuel prices and delivered efficiency as much as you want. This is exactly what I did, to a fine degree of detail (my wife would argue too fine), when I was considering my stove purchase. It's simple math with this approach. You'll have to estimate efficiencies but reasonable estimates are provided. I lowered my LP efficiency because I know I have very long duct runs through unheated spaces.

 

[woodsman23]

Sir, with the most profound seriousness I can muster with my current nasty head cold, 'll state that LP is clearly less expensive for you right now, at this moment, on a delivered BTU basis. Have a nice day.

Sorry u have a headcold.
No it is not clear... A gal of propane versus a 40 lb bag of fuel. How many gal. Of gas does it take to equal a bag of wood? That's theunclear issue. From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Remember one thing clay the idea here is to be greener and burn homemade fuel, pellets etc.. Putting money into overseas pockets does little here for anyone... Propane here is just under 2 bucks but iam burning pellets by the ton...

 

[Clay H]

I assure you sir, the propane we are buying is not comming from anywhere other than the USA.
We have more propane and nat gas than you can fathom. Fact....

 

[yknotcarpentry]

not to be a nit pic but propane is a product made from both natural gas and crude oil....http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/housing/propane/prices.htm#f1

 

[Stentor]

It's important to remember the limits to our thinking about pellet stoves, fuel types or even vehicles. We know less than we think.

For a car or truck, you can do lots of research and get some precise quantified answers. But you also have to factor in what you need the vehicle for, what alternatives you have, repair and reliability, and how much you can afford to spend. If you're careful and think things through, you can probably make the right decision for you. But there's no certainty nor should you look for it. And there isn't likely to be a "perfect" vehicle for you. And there is no perfect decision.

So, there is no benefit in arguing against somebody's vehicle and there is no way to prove that your own is the "best" choice. What we can all do is learn a few bits of information that will be useful to us.

Same reasoning applies to pellet stoves, the economics of "pelletry" (is that a word?), the value of burning wood, etc.

 

[dac122]

Clay,

When comparing 1 million BTUs I get the following:

Propane 92% AFUE furnace $1.30/gal:
$15.47
Propane 80% AFUE furnace $1.30/gal:
$17.79

Pellets Stove 80% AFUE $300/ton:
$22.73
Pellets Stove 70% AFUE $300/ton:
$25.97

So it would appear propane beats pellets on an economic perspective even if you assume 20% heat loss in ducts, which is the high end of what I have heard on the HVAC forums. Of course if you have a finished basement you use where the ductwork runs you have no loss.

From a comfort perspective many folks don't like forced air systems because of the wider temp swings you get vice hot water heat, wood, pellet stove, etc.

Perhaps you want to buys some pellets for added comfort, but I would call back your propane guy often to take advantage of that price.

 

[Clay H]

Clay,

When comparing 1 million BTUs I get the following:

Propane 92% AFUE furnace $1.30/gal:
$15.47
Propane 80% AFUE furnace $1.30/gal:
$17.79

Pellets Stove 80% AFUE $300/ton:
$22.73
Pellets Stove 70% AFUE $300/ton:
$25.97

So it would appear propane beats pellets on an economic perspective even if you assume 20% heat loss in ducts, which is the high end of what I have heard on the HVAC forums. Of course if you have a finished basement you use where the ductwork runs you have no loss.

From a comfort perspective many folks don't like forced air systems because of the wider temp swings you get vice hot water heat, wood, pellet stove, etc.

Perhaps you want to buys some pellets for added comfort, but I would call back your propane guy often to take advantage of that price.

Actually i used slightly different numbers and the price of the 2 were closer than i thought using the spreadsheet.
i paid 268 for a ton pellets. 1.30 for propane but the efficiencies i used 75% furnace and 85% stove as these are the numbers i think i remember reading on each appliance.

Yeah, i'll definately use a little propane for bumping the heat up in the AM and durring the day while i'm gone (set low to maybe 63*) then fire the stove up in the late afternoon when i come home. i kinda anticipate a drop in pellet prices and i hope i'm right...they are highest here than anywhere it seems and thats bound to change with very low Nat. gas prices like they are. Thanks for all the helpfull input and tools.

 

[mnkywrnch]

Sir, with the most profound seriousness I can muster with my current nasty head cold, 'll state that LP is clearly less expensive for you right now, at this moment, on a delivered BTU basis. Have a nice day.

Sorry u have a headcold.
No it is not clear... A gal of propane versus a 40 lb bag of fuel. How many gal. Of gas does it take to equal a bag of wood? That's theunclear issue. From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe Lp is 84000 btus per gallon and pellets at 8000 btus per pound would be 320000 btus per bag so it would take about 3.8 gallons of lp to equal 1 bag of pellets.

 

[dac122]

Sir, with the most profound seriousness I can muster with my current nasty head cold, 'll state that LP is clearly less expensive for you right now, at this moment, on a delivered BTU basis. Have a nice day.

Sorry u have a headcold.
No it is not clear... A gal of propane versus a 40 lb bag of fuel. How many gal. Of gas does it take to equal a bag of wood? That's theunclear issue. From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe Lp is 84000 btus per gallon and pellets at 8000 btus per pound would be 320000 btus per bag so it would take about 3.8 gallons of lp to equal 1 bag of pellets.

330,000 BTUs per bag of pellets / 91,333 BTUs per gallon propane = 3.613 gallons per bag

I would bet the BTU content of a bag varies a bit more than a gallon of propane, but we are in the ballpark.

 

[mnkywrnch]

Sir, with the most profound seriousness I can muster with my current nasty head cold, 'll state that LP is clearly less expensive for you right now, at this moment, on a delivered BTU basis. Have a nice day.

Sorry u have a headcold.
No it is not clear... A gal of propane versus a 40 lb bag of fuel. How many gal. Of gas does it take to equal a bag of wood? That's theunclear issue. From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe Lp is 84000 btus per gallon and pellets at 8000 btus per pound would be 320000 btus per bag so it would take about 3.8 gallons of lp to equal 1 bag of pellets.

330,000 BTUs per bag of pellets / 91,333 BTUs per gallon propane = 3.613 gallons per bag

I would bet the BTU content of a bag varies a bit more than a gallon of propane, but we are in the ballpark.

Sounds good to me ;-)

 

[Lazy Flame]

From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Dual fuel, it's the way I'm going atm.

 

[dac122]

From all the helpfully feedback I have gotten here, I thing I will use both fuels as i can't leave the st. Croix idle... I just can't but I can let it rest when I leave for work and set the furnace down to 60 durring the day and fire the stove back up at 5:00 when I get home. So that's what I will do I think untill there is a price change.

Dual fuel, it's the way I'm going atm.

Then I guess I'm going quad fuel in this order: wood, pellets, heat pump, propane. Plus a little electric resistive in the little ones room.

 

[Lazy Flame]

Touche'

I guess I'm doing Wood, Pellet (if I ever fix the board), Lp, and there is 3 or four electric heaters laying around. I'm more diverse than I thought. :-O

 

[gottahavvitt]

We are on a budget plan where we pay $246.00 a month for propane 12 months out of the year for heat and hot water so I am going with the pellet option for sure as soon as I finish the room addition to put it into. My house is only about 1200 sq. feet.